Really Afraid of Trump Situation

[LPMan59]

Cruz should abandon the religious right. They're a dying breed. He and rand Paul going to Kentucky in support of that clerk...smfh

yes yes, freedom of association and whatnot. But it doesn't exist. And it doesn't exist because the democrats decided to run the south into the ground for a hundred years following the civil war.

Republicans- stay away from these social issues regardless of what you believe. Abortion, gay marriage...it's a losing game. Focus on economics, lower taxes, 2a issues. These are the things that will get people to vote for you. Pro abortion or anti abortion, no one wants to pay more taxes.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Cruz should abandon the religious right. They're a dying breed. He and rand Paul going to Kentucky in support of that clerk...smfh

yes yes, freedom of association and whatnot. But it doesn't exist. And it doesn't exist because the democrats decided to run the south into the ground for a hundred years following the civil war.

Republicans- stay away from these social issues regardless of what you believe. Abortion, gay marriage...it's a losing game. Focus on economics, lower taxes, 2a issues. These are the things that will get people to vote for you. Pro abortion or anti abortion, no one wants to pay more taxes.

Uhhhhhh..... not sure if serious?

 

[jamil]

Yeah, I'll take a crack at this too...

Ok, let's start with Cruz:

In January he told Politico "I'm a Christian first and an American Second"...

I don't care. Everyone believes something. The constitution forbids him from mingling government with his religion but it does not forbid religious people from being in government. So what heinous uniquely "Christian" things is he going to impose on me? I'll be glad to fight those things.

He supports the "First Amendment Defence Act"...which is pure bigotry. He seeks to enshrine the ability to discriminate against those his religion dislikes into national law...plain and simple.

Okay. I just read it. Can you point to the specific text where the act seeks to enshrine the ability to discriminate against people Christians dislike? All I see is stuff like not allowing government bureaucrats to punish people in tax code, not recognizing charitable contributions, break contracts, disallow benefits of people who's beliefs it doesn't like.

I support the right of woman to terminate pregnancy. I argue this on terms of individual liberty and governmental overreach. He opposes it because Jesus.

My views on abortion have nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with protecting individual rights.

If a pro-life or pro-choice person rests his belief on what the law should be on personal morals, we're going to disagree. Some people's religious beliefs make their moral basis different from people whose morals are based on ideology, or whatever. So when we disagree on morals, should everyone show the animus that you show for Cruz, or Christians? Or, should both sides just ridicule the **** out of each other.

He announced his candidacy at Bob Jones University...a Christian degree mill focused on churning out believers of a dominionist bent. His stump speeches are full of rhetoric vilifying non-Christians in general, but non-believers in particular. He speaks out one side of his mouth of "religious freedom", but in reality he speaks only of Christian religious freedom. If he is to be elected president, he must be everyone's president...but that doesn't seem to be his concern. He goes out of his way to marginalize non-christians, and put his own religion first.

Obama went out of his way to marginalize Christians. It wasn't about just marginalizing religion generally because he was preferential to Muslims. He also marginalized conservatives. That's my biggest grief with Obama is that he is the president of the united progressives. People shouldn't be marginalized or ridiculed for their beliefs, except Trumpers. We can ridicule them all we want.

Seriously, the things you've listed that you have against Cruz, I see mostly as pandering. And for what's not pandering, he gets to believe what he wants. But he shouldn't get to enforce his peculiar beliefs. I have some hesitancy to support him as well. But probably for different reasons than what you've given.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It never gets old, does it, boys?

 

[jamil]

That's fine. In fact, it sounds great. The problem is, Mr. Cruz isn't saying these things when he has the oppurtunity to do so himself. Instead he goes on the campaign trail railing against atheist straw men that win him no favor with people who aren't already going to vote for him.

His deeply held beliefs scare me, and not just because I am an atheist. They scare women that don't wish to be slaves. They scare Muslim-Americans. He made this about his brand of religious fervor...not me, and he keeps pushing that narrative...not me. For those of us that view the world through a different lense, that world view is terrifying, and he needs to realize that fewer and fewer Americans subscribe to it.

WTF? I thought you were philosophically against straw men. I think the world that sees through a different lens than Christians is scary to Christians. So how about this? Could we agree that rather than basing our laws on the morality derived from our disparate world views, can we make our laws based on protecting individual rights, which are less subjective?

You're afraid of Cruz's morality spilling into our laws. I'm MORE afraid of the moral case Bernie is making for throwing out individual rights in favor of collective rights. He says it's immoral that people don't have a right to health care and a college degree! That's ****ing crazy. It's at least as bat **** crazy as any of the things Cruz wants to do because of his sense of morality derived from his world view.

If it's about individual rights then it is less subjective than an abstract concept like morality.

 

[jamil]

It never gets old, does it, boys?

It's INGO. This is Spring. Almost.

 

[Destro]

Why? You are either born a citizen of the USA or you are not. It is actually pretty simple.

Exactly....which is why Ted Cruz doesn't pass muster under the 14th amendment

 

[HoughMade]

Exactly....which is why Ted Cruz doesn't pass muster under the 14th amendment

...which isn't the standard at issue.

 

[Destro]

...which isn't the standard at issue.

Hmm...everything I've read says he was born a Canadian citizen...I must be mistaken

 

[HoughMade]

The Constitution....Article 2, says "Natural Born Citizen". This has been pretty much universally understood to mean: "citizen from the moment of birth", which under the law, Ted Cruz was.

I find it weird that having never really been a Ted Cruz guy, I'm defending him regularly.

 

[Dead Duck]

 

[Destro]

The Constitution....Article 2, says "Natural Born Citizen". This has been pretty much universally understood to mean: "citizen from the moment of birth", which under the law, Ted Cruz was.

I find it weird that having never really been a Ted Cruz guy, I'm defending him regularly.

His acquired citizenship is derived from statute, not his birth. No different than a naturalized citizen gets Thierry citizenship from statute.

 

[HoughMade]

His acquired citizenship is derived from statute, not his birth. No different than a naturalized citizen gets Thierry citizenship from statute.

have you met JeffINGunner?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It's INGO. This is Spring. Almost.

Sometimes I think it's February 2nd.

 

[Scottiedog422]

The RNC gave us Dole, McCain, and Romney.

You trust them more than citizens to pick a candidate?

Actually my hope would be that a true conservative would step in and offer to serve. Now this is US politics and nothing like this happens but I can dream of a Mitch Daniels coming out of the private sector, I can hope for SOMEONE better than the group presented this election year. Will it happen? No. Unfortunately I don't believe Trump can win a presidential election and this nation can't afford another 4-8 years of the status quo.....

 

[Destro]

have you met JeffINGunner?

?...i like Ted Cruz mostly and wouldn't have a problem voting for him otherwise. If he gets the nomination i would vote for Sanders though. It would seriously bother me unless it was settled law

 

[MisterChester]

WTF? I thought you were philosophically against straw men. I think the world that sees through a different lens than Christians is scary to Christians. So how about this? Could we agree that rather than basing our laws on the morality derived from our disparate world views, can we make our laws based on protecting individual rights, which are less subjective?

You're afraid of Cruz's morality spilling into our laws. I'm MORE afraid of the moral case Bernie is making for throwing out individual rights in favor of collective rights. He says it's immoral that people don't have a right to health care and a college degree! That's ****ing crazy. It's at least as bat **** crazy as any of the things Cruz wants to do because of his sense of morality derived from his world view.

If it's about individual rights then it is less subjective than an abstract concept like morality.

Scruz wants to control our personal lives and Bernie wants to control our money. To me, both ideas are bat**** crazy. We all know that with either of them we are getting ****ed, we are just picking which hole gets it first. Scruz is a big-government social statist and Bernie is a socialist. What happened to leaving both our wallets and personal lives alone?

 

[17 squirrel]

It never gets old, does it, boys?

How many members do you think have changed their positions from information and opinions given with threads like this ??

 

[HoughMade]

How many members do you think have changed their positions from information and opinions given with threads like this ??

Probably none, but the ironic thing is that Trump has changed his position on about three major issues just today....but don't worry, he changed back.

 

[17 squirrel]

Probably none, but the ironic thing is that Trump has changed his position on about three major issues just today....but don't worry, he changed back.

Is that a good or bad trait to have ?