Really Afraid of Trump Situation

[GREEN607]

It doesn't matter if you think Trump can't beat Hillary.
It doesn't matter if you think Cruz can't beat Hillary.
Hillary will be indicted. Obama will pretend to oppose it in public, but secretly back it in private.
Joe Biden rides in on a white horse to save the democrats, unsullied by the mudslinging of the primary season.
Biden handily defeats whatever clown the republican convention comes up with, as Trump comes up just shy of 1237 delegates and runs 3rd party against the inevitable establishment pick.
You heard it here first.

And what if......... Rand Paul runs, as the Libertarian pick.... now it's a four-way race?!

 

[hoosierdoc]

I hate to say it but a contested convention for the republicans could be the best result. I don't think Trump is electable and conservatives need a viable candidate to counter the liberal machine.

The RNC gave us Dole, McCain, and Romney.

You trust them more than citizens to pick a candidate?

 

[hoosierdoc]

Well... Cruz was born in Canada.

Being born in a different country doesn't make you a foreigner

 

[churchmouse]

Being born in a different country doesn't make you a foreigner

"AND"................He admits it.........

 

[KLB]

Cruz, Paul...men of their ilk spend their time making a mess of our government, so they can run a continuous campaign based on how broken the system is. They offer no real solutions. Their game is perfectly clear to over half of the country. They both claim they want liberty, but given the chance they will legislate from their religion...that scares the hell out of people like me. And women.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think they will legislate from their religion? How would they even do that?

Can you give some examples of how they have tried to do that as Senators?

Can you give an example of a previous President having done something like this that you did not like?

I am curious, because to an extent I share your apprehensions in this regard.

 

[jamil]

Out of curiosity, what makes you think they will legislate from their religion? How would they even do that?

Can you give some examples of how they have tried to do that as Senators?

Can you give an example of a previous President having done something like this that you did not like?

I am curious, because to an extent I share your apprehensions in this regard.

It's not like no Christian politician ever has advocated school prayer.

 

[KLB]

It's not like no Christian politician ever has advocated school prayer.

Making the pool of possibilities ANY Christian politician is way too large of a pool.

He was talking about about two specific candidates for President that are both sitting Senators. So, since he is afraid that they would act in this manner, I wonder if there are examples of them doing this already.

I then expanded it to other Presidents to get an idea of some legislation that was offered or passed that would fit his definition.

I guess you could include opposing abortion and gay marriage, but other than that I am at a loss.

 

[ghuns]

Hillary will be indicted. Obama will pretend to oppose it in public, but secretly back it in private.

I'd like to believe that. I really would. I could maybe be persuaded to believe it if you could cite a single example of somebody named Clinton being held accountable for criminal, or even unethical, behavior over the course of the last 40ish years.

 

[jamil]

Making the pool of possibilities ANY Christian politician is way too large of a pool.

He was talking about about two specific candidates for President that are both sitting Senators. So, since he is afraid that they would act in this manner, I wonder if there are examples of them doing this already.

I then expanded it to other Presidents to get an idea of some legislation that was offered or passed that would fit his definition.

I guess you could include opposing abortion and gay marriage, but other than that I am at a loss.

He did say men of their ilk. But on second read it may have been because they are both anti-abortion. In that case I suppose I'm of their "ilk" as well, though not for religious reasons. So I guess I find myself at a loss as well.

 

[PaulF]

Out of curiosity, what makes you think they will legislate from their religion? How would they even do that?

Can you give some examples of how they have tried to do that as Senators?

Can you give an example of a previous President having done something like this that you did not like?

I am curious, because to an extent I share your apprehensions in this regard.

Ok, let's start with Cruz:

In January he told Politico "I'm a Christian first and an American Second"...

He supports the "First Amendment Defence Act"...which is pure bigotry. He seeks to enshrine the ability to discriminate against those his religion dislikes into national law...plain and simple.

I support the right of woman to terminate pregnancy. I argue this on terms of individual liberty and governmental overreach. He opposes it because Jesus.

He announced his candidacy at Bob Jones University...a Christian degree mill focused on churning out believers of a dominionist bent. His stump speeches are full of rhetoric vilifying non-Christians in general, but non-believers in particular. He speaks out one side of his mouth of "religious freedom", but in reality he speaks only of Christian religious freedom. If he is to be elected president, he must be everyone's president...but that doesn't seem to be his concern. He goes out of his way to marginalize non-christians, and put his own religion first.

For me, that it a huge problem, and one that requires a lot of mitigating explanation before he'll earn my vote.

My lunch hour is almost over, and I have to get back to work. I'll work on my qualms with Mr. Paul at a later time.

 

[HoughMade]

Ok, let's start with Cruz:

In January he told Politico "I'm a Christian first and an American Second"...

Me too. What do you think this means?

He supports the "First Amendment Defence Act"...which is pure bigotry. He seeks to enshrine the ability to discriminate against those his religion dislikes into national law...plain and simple.

Please explain to me the exact nature of this bigotry. Are we talking about the insane fiction that there aren't gay-friendly bakers of all things? the next thing we'll start hearing is that there's no gay-friendly florists.

I support the right of woman to terminate pregnancy. I argue this on terms of individual liberty and governmental overreach. He opposes it because Jesus.

No he opposes it because he believes that the right to life extends to the smallest humans, not only to those lucky enough to escape the womb. Believe it or not, one need not be a Christian or religious at all to believe this.

He announced his candidacy at Bob Jones University...a Christian degree mill focused on churning out believers of a dominionist bent.

Interesting. My Aunt and Uncle both graduated from there and spent 30+ years teaching in public schools. Anyhoo, Ted's father is a dominionist, Ted may or may not be. You realize that dominionism is a very small portion of Christians that most evangelical Christians believe to be misguided at best, likely heretical, right?

His stump speeches are full of rhetoric vilifying non-Christians in general, but non-believers in particular. He speaks out one side of his mouth of "religious freedom", but in reality he speaks only of Christian religious freedom.

Sometimes people think they hear the dog whistle because they assume it's being blown and can't be convinced otherwise.

If he is to be elected president, he must be everyone's president...but that doesn't seem to be his concern. He goes out of his way to marginalize non-christians, and put his own religion first.

For me, that it a huge problem, and one that requires a lot of mitigating explanation before he'll earn my vote.

I think you are wrong. As with many people who prefer the Constitution be applied as written, he believes that 9 elderly people in robes are no substitute for representative republic.

....and I'm not even much of Cruz supporter.

 

[PaulF]

Me too.

Great. I couldn't care less what imaginary gods you worship. You aren't trying to run the country.

Please explain to me the exact nature of this bigotry. Are we talking about the insane fiction that there aren't gay-friendly bakers of all things? the next thing we'll start hearing is that there's no gay-friendly florists.

The only insane fiction being propagated here is that your religious freedoms are not already fully protected by the first amendment.

No he opposes it because he believes that the right to life extends to the smallest humans, not only to those lucky enough to escape the womb. Believe it or not, one need not be a Christian or religious at all to believe this.

The "right to life" was a tag line made up by fundamentalist lobbyists that appears nowhere in our constitution in reference to zygotes, embryos, or foetus'. All religion...no constitution.

Interesting. My Aunt and Uncle both graduated from there and spent 30+ years teaching in public schools. Anyhoo, Ted's father is a dominionist, Ted may or may not be. You realize that dominionism is a very small portion of Christians that most evangelical Christians believe to be misguided at best, likely heretical, right?

I want to hear HIM denounce this nonsense HIMSELF.

Sometimes people think they hear the dog whistle because they assume it's being blown and can't be convinced otherwise.



I think you are wrong. As with many people who prefer the Constitution be applied as written, he believes that 9 elderly people in robes are no substitute for representative republic.

....and I'm not even much of Cruz supporter.

You are allowed your opinion, as am I...and that is all I am stating. But let's be real here, the country is made up of a lot of people that don't fit into Ted Cruz's vision of what America should be. I am one of those people, and I believe in the constitution. If he can't win me over, how on Earth does he stand a chance at taking the general election?

 

[miguel]

If he can't win me over, how on Earth does he stand a chance at taking the general election?

Maybe by winning over more people unlike you?

 

[HoughMade]

...You are allowed your opinion, as am I...and that is all I am stating. But let's be real here, the country is made up of a lot of people that don't fit into Ted Cruz's vision of what America should be. I am one of those people, and I believe in the constitution. If he can't win me over, how on Earth does he stand a chance at taking the general election?

I don't know that Cruz can win....but no President magically transforms the country into whatever their vision is. Not Ted Cruz, not anyone.

I really don't want to get into another abortion discussion, but abortion isn't in the Constitution at all, so "believing in the Constitution" is a far different thing from "believing in what the justices say the Constitution is ONLY when they agree with me."

Ted Cruz wants the Constitution interpreted according to what it says, not what interest groups wish it said. I believe that this means that such things as abortion, gay marriage, assisted suicide, etc. are state issues and not federal Constitutional issues at all.

That a Christian puts their beliefs before government is no different from anyone else who has deeply held beliefs that they will not violate regardless of the law. It has nothing to do with passing laws to make other people act like you want for purely religious reasons. That is not Christian at all and I don't think Ted Cruz is after that either.

 

[Destro]

Being born in a different country doesn't make you a foreigner

It should make you ineligible to be president

 

[KLB]

Ok, let's start with Cruz:

In January he told Politico "I'm a Christian first and an American Second"...

I think if you had asked all of the Presidents we have had that most of them would have probably agreed with that statement.

He supports the "First Amendment Defence Act"...which is pure bigotry. He seeks to enshrine the ability to discriminate against those his religion dislikes into national law...plain and simple.

I disagree with you on this. A business owner should be able to refuse service to anyone for any reason. I have no more issue with a business refusing to provide service to a LGBT wedding than I do a business asking me to leave because I am carrying a gun.

I support the right of woman to terminate pregnancy. I argue this on terms of individual liberty and governmental overreach. He opposes it because Jesus.

I think you don't give him or others enough credit here. I think many if not most of them oppose it because they think that a fetus is a person and that an abortion is therefor murder.

He announced his candidacy at Bob Jones University...a Christian degree mill focused on churning out believers of a dominionist bent. His stump speeches are full of rhetoric vilifying non-Christians in general, but non-believers in particular. He speaks out one side of his mouth of "religious freedom", but in reality he speaks only of Christian religious freedom. If he is to be elected president, he must be everyone's president...but that doesn't seem to be his concern. He goes out of his way to marginalize non-christians, and put his own religion first.

For me, that it a huge problem, and one that requires a lot of mitigating explanation before he'll earn my vote.

Interesting that we can start at a similar point and end up in such a different place. I guess I look more beyond a candidate's religion than you do. I don't look for reasons to be offended by their beliefs. I do not see him trying to make me follow his beliefs. I'm not totally a fan of his, but I do think he is more likely to actually believe in following our Constitution than any of the others currently running.

My lunch hour is almost over, and I have to get back to work. I'll work on my qualms with Mr. Paul at a later time.

Good. I am even more curious to see what your qualms about him are.

 

[KLB]

It should make you ineligible to be president

Why? You are either born a citizen of the USA or you are not. It is actually pretty simple.

 

[HoughMade]

...I disagree with you on this. A business owner should be able to refuse service to anyone for any reason. I have no more issue with a business refusing to provide service to a LGBT wedding than I do a business asking me to leave because I am carrying a gun...

Hands raised if you think any of the various "human rights" laws out there will force a bakery owned by a gay person to put: "God says homosexuality is a sin" on a cake as a protection of the "human rights" of a person with that religious belief.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

...nor should it. I should have to do something that would seem to me to be endorsing something I believe is wrong. Neither should you.

 

[PaulF]

That a Christian puts their beliefs before government is no different from anyone else who has deeply held beliefs that they will not violate regardless of the law. It has nothing to do with passing laws to make other people act like you want for purely religious reasons. That is not Christian at all and I don't think Ted Cruz is after that either.

That's fine. In fact, it sounds great. The problem is, Mr. Cruz isn't saying these things when he has the oppurtunity to do so himself. Instead he goes on the campaign trail railing against atheist straw men that win him no favor with people who aren't already going to vote for him.

His deeply held beliefs scare me, and not just because I am an atheist. They scare women that don't wish to be slaves. They scare Muslim-Americans. He made this about his brand of religious fervor...not me, and he keeps pushing that narrative...not me. For those of us that view the world through a different lense, that world view is terrifying, and he needs to realize that fewer and fewer Americans subscribe to it.

 

[HoughMade]

...His deeply held beliefs scare me.... They scare women that don't wish to be slaves. They scare Muslim-Americans...

oh boy.....