Really Afraid of Trump Situation

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Is that a good or bad trait to have ?

Depends. If you're a means-justifies-the-ends kind of results oriented guy or you have principled positions that when you violate them, makes any victor ring hollow.

 

[HoughMade]

Is that a good or bad trait to have ?

Not studying up on the issues so that when asked about a stance you stumble around for a while, state one thing, try to turn the question back on the questioner, then contradict what you said 90 seconds before? It seems to be the path to success, so I"ll go with "positive".

 

[PaulF]

WTF? I thought you were philosophically against straw men. I think the world that sees through a different lens than Christians is scary to Christians. So how about this? Could we agree that rather than basing our laws on the morality derived from our disparate world views, can we make our laws based on protecting individual rights, which are less subjective?

You're afraid of Cruz's morality spilling into our laws. I'm MORE afraid of the moral case Bernie is making for throwing out individual rights in favor of collective rights. He says it's immoral that people don't have a right to health care and a college degree! That's ****ing crazy. It's at least as bat **** crazy as any of the things Cruz wants to do because of his sense of morality derived from his world view.

If it's about individual rights then it is less subjective than an abstract concept like morality.

jamil, you have given me a lot to cover but I'm not going to quote all of it simply to save space.

You are correct, I am philosophically against straw men. That isn't what I was attempting to craft with that statement. In all honesty, hyperbole may have gotten the better of me here, and for that I must apologize. I was at work when I wrote that, and that didn't allow the time to polish my thoughts as much as I normally would.

When I wrote "women that don't wish to be slaves" I was referring specifically to abortion, or more specifically, being forced to carry a pregnancy to term against one's will. To me, being forced by the government, or your husband, or your religion to use your own body to feed and house another human being against your will is akin to slavery. I know you and I disagree fundamentally about abortion, and perhaps this ventures too far into the realm of hyperbole to be productive...but that was my intent, not to say that Christians (or Ted Cruz) wish to literally enslave all women.

Again, allow me to apologize, and please forgive me.

Now, to the bulk of the rest of your point(s):

I wrote upthread what I would want from my ideal politician. I was asked why Cruz wasn't on that list, and I tried to give an honest answer: in short, I fear his motivations...specifically his religious motivations, which run far counter to mine. I don't see any need to insert religion into government at all. Jamil, I agree with you on Obama, and the marginalization of Christians. I agree that it is wrong. I agree with your assessment of his treatment of Muslims. I agree that it has no place here. What I disagree with is your assessment of Cruz...where you see pandering, I see statements of intent...and that frightens me.

Our government has major problems...but our "ruling class" (including Cruz, from my perspective) refuse to address them. Instead they would rather rehash old battles and re-open old wounds that the rest of the world has long since settled and moved on from. We need economic opportunity, Liberty, and social stability. Cruz seems set on fighting some imaginary holy war against a large swath of his own (would-be) people.

I just want him to leave it be.

If he really is interested in liberty, if he really is interested in economic opportunity, if he really is interested in social stability in the long-term, then he needs tell me that...but don't wrap it in a bunch of religious nonsense. Liberty, economic opportunity, and social stability work regardless of one's religion.

Cruz is divisive. That's fine for a Senator, but it really isn't what we need for a President. We need a leader, an effective motivator that can identify and move to rectify the practical problems with our actual, working government.

I have written this before, but it is worth repeating: I am not opposed to Cruz because he is a Christian. Every politician I have ever voted for has claimed to be Christian. I am opposed to Cruz because I expect him to put his religion aside and lead the damned country, and he doesn't appear willing, able, or prepared to do that.

 

[jamil]

Hmm...everything I've read says he was born a Canadian citizen...I must be mistaken

His acquired citizenship is derived from statute, not his birth. No different than a naturalized citizen gets Thierry citizenship from statute.

?...i like Ted Cruz mostly and wouldn't have a problem voting for him otherwise. If he gets the nomination i would vote for Sanders though. It would seriously bother me unless it was settled law

There are exactly two ways to gain citizenship. By birth, or by the process of naturalization. Cruz never went through naturalization. Therefore, if he is not a citizen by birth, he's not a citizen at all. I think you and the other birthers should posse up and send his ass back to Ca-NAH-dah. Post a selfie to INGO when it's done.

Scruz wants to control our personal lives and Bernie wants to control our money. To me, both ideas are bat**** crazy. We all know that with either of them we are getting ****ed, we are just picking which hole gets it first. Scruz is a big-government social statist and Bernie is a socialist. What happened to leaving both our wallets and personal lives alone?

I think you're saying he's saying more than he's saying. That's what I say when I detect straw forming. The first hint was "Scruz", implying that you really want people to believe tabloids.

How many members do you think have changed their positions from information and opinions given with threads like this ??

Exactly. I've changed my positions from many posts in these Trump threads. When I see the effect that Trump has had on his Trumpers (a contraction of Trump and supporters), it makes me actually trust Trump less.

 

[jamil]

Paul, I want to address this with more thought and detail when I get home from work. But for now I want to get a though out before I forget...

too late....

Wait, it's back.

The way I read Cruz, and I've written about this many times on INGO before he announced his POTUS candidacy, Cruz is a smarmy manipulative politician. My suspicion that he's pandering is based on the aggregation of all the data points. The videos I saw of his college days. What people from college said about him. What others have said about him at various points in his life. What he's done as solicitor general. What he's said on the campaign trail. What he's actually done. The Shutdown to Nowhere makes absolutely no political sense outside of the larger context of a presidential campaign. THAT, accusing McConnell of lying, and many other stunts he's pulled, were to convince a core group of people that he's one of them. And not that part of him isn't one of them, the part that's a conniving opportunist isn't.

jamil, you have given me a lot to cover but I'm not going to quote all of it simply to save space.

You are correct, I am philosophically against straw men. That isn't what I was attempting to craft with that statement. In all honesty, hyperbole may have gotten the better of me here, and for that I must apologize. I was at work when I wrote that, and that didn't allow the time to polish my thoughts as much as I normally would.

When I wrote "women that don't wish to be slaves" I was referring specifically to abortion, or more specifically, being forced to carry a pregnancy to term against one's will. To me, being forced by the government, or your husband, or your religion to use your own body to feed and house another human being against your will is akin to slavery. I know you and I disagree fundamentally about abortion, and perhaps this ventures too far into the realm of hyperbole to be productive...but that was my intent, not to say that Christians (or Ted Cruz) wish to literally enslave all women.

Again, allow me to apologize, and please forgive me.

Now, to the bulk of the rest of your point(s):

I wrote upthread what I would want from my ideal politician. I was asked why Cruz wasn't on that list, and I tried to give an honest answer: in short, I fear his motivations...specifically his religious motivations, which run far counter to mine. I don't see any need to insert religion into government at all. Jamil, I agree with you on Obama, and the marginalization of Christians. I agree that it is wrong. I agree with your assessment of his treatment of Muslims. I agree that it has no place here. What I disagree with is your assessment of Cruz...where you see pandering, I see statements of intent...and that frightens me.

Our government has major problems...but our "ruling class" (including Cruz, from my perspective) refuse to address them. Instead they would rather rehash old battles and re-open old wounds that the rest of the world has long since settled and moved on from. We need economic opportunity, Liberty, and social stability. Cruz seems set on fighting some imaginary holy war against a large swath of his own (would-be) people.

I just want him to leave it be.

If he really is interested in liberty, if he really is interested in economic opportunity, if he really is interested in social stability in the long-term, then he needs tell me that...but don't wrap it in a bunch of religious nonsense. Liberty, economic opportunity, and social stability work regardless of one's religion.

Cruz is divisive. That's fine for a Senator, but it really isn't what we need for a President. We need a leader, an effective motivator that can identify and move to rectify the practical problems with our actual, working government.

I have written this before, but it is worth repeating: I am not opposed to Cruz because he is a Christian. Every politician I have ever voted for has claimed to be Christian. I am opposed to Cruz because I expect him to put his religion aside and lead the damned country, and he doesn't appear willing, able, or prepared to do that.

 

[BugI02]

The Constitution....Article 2, says "Natural Born Citizen". This has been pretty much universally understood to mean: "citizen from the moment of birth", which under the law, Ted Cruz was.

I find it weird that having never really been a Ted Cruz guy, I'm defending him regularly.

And they're not even billable hours

 

[HoughMade]

And they're not even billable hours

Oh....I'll send a bill.

 

[BugI02]

I have no problem with Cruz's religious side or his Constitutionalist side. I mainly have a problem with him because he's a globalist and a closet neo-con. Oh and because he's not Trump

 

[jamil]

So I'm watching the Ted Cruz town hall. My question is, what the hell did he shine his nose with? When he holds his head just right you can almost see Megyn's reflection.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So I'm watching the Ted Cruz town hall. My question is, what the hell did he shine his nose with? When he holds his head just right you can almost see Megyn's reflection.

Yeah, well there's a problem...Trump has cornered the market and is hoarding all of the orange spray-on tan stuff so, everybody else is forced to appear with shiney noses.

 

[JTScribe]

For decades we have not been able to achieve a balanced budget. Most on the right blame a lack of spending cuts. Most on the left blame the lack of increased revenue. I believe, regrettably, we need both.

I disagree - tax receipts are at records levels, 3.2 trillion in 2015. Not too long ago, our annual budgets were around 2 trillion.

Entitlement spending is killing us - Karl Denninger does a good analysis of the numbers here:

https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=231295

 

[jgressley2003]

I miss Rand Paul. He was the voice of reason in this political mess.

Agreed, I really wish he was still in the race

 

[indiucky]

I'm with ya, he's gonna beet the juice outa her..

 

[indiucky]

..but that was my intent, not to say that Christians (or Ted Cruz) wish to literally enslave all women.

Dang it!

Now I guess I have to go back to watching 1970's Pam Grier Women's prison flicks...I really thought we had a chance this time....

Drive in movies in the 1970's rocked....

 

[17 squirrel]

Thank God*** crazy leggs got it..
But you know with all that leather you wear, I'm wondering what alternative lifestyle you live behind the seen...

 

[17 squirrel]

Dang it!

Now I guess I have to go back to watching 1970's Pam Grier Women's prison flicks...I really thought we had a chance this time....

Drive in movies in the 1970's rocked....

As kids we used to take the bus into SW DC just to watch Shaft and Pam movies.. Now you just gotta turn on BET and Groove to

" Brown Sugar Saturday Night "

Man, I'm really wondering,,in the nicest way..., was your mamma around Newport News around Dec 1957 ??? Or maybe my daddy was on leave out here ???
Did she like Navy boys with a 55 Chevy convertible...

 

[indiucky]

Man, I'm really wondering,,in the nicest way..., was your mamma around Newport News around Dec 1957 ??? Or maybe my daddy was on leave out here ???
Did she like Navy boys with a 55 Chevy convertible...

No sir...You are just a brother from another...

I remember me and dad would sit and watch "Get Christie Love" when I was a kid....

"You under arrest Sugar!"

[video=youtube;g5dukFjgxws]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5dukFjgxws[/video]

 

[indiucky]

Thank God*** crazy leggs got it..
But you know with all that leather you wear, I'm wondering what alternative lifestyle you live behind the seen...

I was just born 250 years too late...I have heard that my whole life...When I would finish my trap line as a teen I would climb out of Mill Creek about 100 yards from the river...I would look over at the Louisville sky line, close my eyes and then open them again real quick, hoping the view would be of Indian villages or a block house....

I have even went so far as to venture in the woods with nothing but 18th century gear for a day or two to give myself the illusion I was there...One time on the Muscatatuck River I had gotten turned around on a squirrel hunt in and stumbled out onto a gravel road in period gear with my blue heeler just as a young college age couple were slowly driving by in their jeep...They stared at me and it hit me I was in period clothing and gear...I pointed at the Jeep and shouted "DEVILS!!!!! WITCH!!!!!" and then for poops and giggles made my arms into a cross and shouted "Get thee behind me Satan!!!"

You should have seen the look on a C.O.'s face one dove season when he came to check the hunting license of a man who appeared to be an 18th century Indian trader dove hunting...He asked to see my flint fowler and I looked at him straight faced and said, "I ain't gonna lie to you sir...I ain't got no plug in there..."

I frequent Indiana Ghost story web sites hoping to find a tale about a young couple on a back road in Southern Indiana who saw and 18th century long hunter with what appeared to be a pet wolf with him...True story...About 1997 I reckon...Late August, early September...

 

[17 squirrel]

I was just born 250 years too late...I have heard that my whole life...When I would finish my trap line as a teen I would climb out of Mill Creek about 100 yards from the river...I would look over at the Louisville sky line, close my eyes and then open them again real quick, hoping the view would be of Indian villages or a block house....

I have even went so far as to venture in the woods with nothing but 18th century gear for a day or two to give myself the illusion I was there...One time on the Muscatatuck River I had gotten turned around on a squirrel hunt in and stumbled out onto a gravel road in period gear with my blue heeler just as a young college age couple were slowly driving by in their jeep...They stared at me and it hit me I was in period clothing and gear...I pointed at the Jeep and shouted "DEVILS!!!!! WITCH!!!!!" and then for poops and giggles made my arms into a cross and shouted "Get thee behind me Satan!!!"

You should have seen the look on a C.O.'s face one dove season when he came to check the hunting license of a man who appeared to be an 18th century Indian trader dove hunting...He asked to see my flint fowler and I looked at him straight faced and said, "I ain't gonna lie to you sir...I ain't got no plug in there..."

I frequent Indiana Ghost story web sites hoping to find a tale about a young couple on a back road in Southern Indiana who saw and 18th century long hunter with what appeared to be a pet wolf with him...True story...About 1997 I reckon...Late August, early September...

Man, I told you, it's time to throttle back on the weed.... What do your neighbors think ??


Hahahahaha....

 

[indiucky]

What do your neighbors think ??

I have the best Halloween costumes ever....

"Man...That dude looks like a real pirate..I think that cutlass and pirate pistol were for real dog..."

The funny thing is I have never washed (unless it was raining) any of my period clothing...The wife makes me hang them up in an unobtrusive part of the basement...One time I caught her spraying freebreeze on them and before I could say anything she said "I don't give a ^%^%$# that Freebreeze wasn't around in 1780...It's either that or I am burning them..."

I mumbled a polite "Yes ma'am.."

She can always bring me back from the past.....She's a tough girl...

This is from about 12 years ago down at Rising Sun....The wife and I got a lot of looks playing slots and ordering Bourbons at the casino....

The reality is...I have never grown up..I still play "cowboys and indians"...It's just my stuff costs a lot more...