Fanatical religious terrorist incident Colorado Springs.

[steveh_131]

We're moving the goalposts. All I'm saying is the title of the thread is appropriate. Whether he completely adhered to the tenets of Christianity or not (obviously not), his fanatical motivations were at least partly based on his personal religious view, which he considered Christian. And his action was an act of terror, lone wolf or not.

It really depends on what sort of implications we're attaching to it.

Are we implying that his 'religious' views really compelled him to do what he did? Then I think that's ridiculous and dishonest. He is an evil man. He beats his wife. Cheated on all of them. Allegedly raped a woman. Can't keep a job and is most certainly delusional. He does what he wants to do and uses whatever justification is convenient to let him sleep at night.

The god that he speaks of is as imaginary as the voices in the head of any other mentally ill person. If speaking of imaginary beings makes one 'religious', then the thread title sort of fits.

If we're implying that any part of Christianity is compatible with any part of this man's life, or that the divine being in his imagination has any likeness to the God of Christianity then the thread title does not fit.

 

[PaulF]

I'm not suggesting being Christian made him do these things. That is absurd....but please understand, from my perspective all gods are imaginary. When people use imaginary reasons to justify tangible actions the results can be...unpredictable. When the justification is imaginary, any action is justifiable.

 

[steveh_131]

I'm not suggesting being Christian made him do these things. That is absurd....but please understand, from my perspective all gods are imaginary. When people use imaginary reasons to justify tangible actions the results can be...unpredictable. When the justification is imaginary, any action is justifiable.

They may be imaginary to you, but one is defined in a tangible way and one is not - via the Bible.

Religious person 'A' spouts off delusional nonsense about an arbitrary divine being who justifies every selfish and evil thing that he does.

Religious person 'B' carefully studies a book to learn about this divine being, gathers with other believers to learn and study, and lives his life trying to follow the tenets of that book, in a self-sacrificial manner.

We're using the word 'religious' to describe both people, A and B. But would you and I agree that they are not the same?

 

[Doug]

He may "self identify" as a Christian; that doesn't make him one.

 

[jamil]

We're moving the goalposts. All I'm saying is the title of the thread is appropriate. Whether he completely adhered to the tenets of Christianity or not (obviously not), his fanatical motivations were at least partly based on his personal religious view, which he considered Christian. And his action was an act of terror, lone wolf or not.

I think it's more an evolution of discussion.

And I think the thread title, as it turns out, is accurate. And the people arguing against it are doing so because of what is often implied by such labeling.

I'm not suggesting being Christian made him do these things. That is absurd....but please understand, from my perspective all gods are imaginary. When people use imaginary reasons to justify tangible actions the results can be...unpredictable. When the justification is imaginary, any action is justifiable.

I'm not saying you're saying that. I'm saying you're blaming the wrong thing. Look at the global warming nutters. Not religious. Their desired end justifies embellishing the facts, lying, and whatever else they can get away with. There are plenty of level headed folks who believe in global warming without being nutters. I'm saying blame the true cause.

I don't believe in any gods. I'm not a religious person. I am against abortion for moral reasons. Though I don't agree with Dear on the basis of those reasons, we both believe abortion is morally wrong. If my position were so radical that the end justified any means, I'd be a nutter just like Dean. Just not a religious one.

 

[Mark-DuCo]

He may "self identify" as a Christian; that doesn't make him one.

I try not to derail threads, but maybe by derailing a derailing I can get it back on track.
Should he get his own bathroom at church?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I'm not suggesting being Christian made him do these things. That is absurd....but please understand, from my perspective all gods are imaginary. When people use imaginary reasons to justify tangible actions the results can be...unpredictable. When the justification is imaginary, any action is justifiable.

I don't believe in any gods. I'm not a religious person. I am against abortion for moral reasons. Though I don't agree with Dear on the basis of those reasons, we both believe abortion is morally wrong. If my position were so radical that the end justified any means, I'd be a nutter just like Dean. Just not a religious one.

Told myself I wouldn't get involved in this line of conversations... but I don't think being against abortion is necessarily a religious stance. I'm not a religious person... there are people far more informed than I am on the subjects of God, faith, etc... and I leave it to them to figure it out.

I also don't play with the semantics of "personhood"... I think there is a point during gestation where something can be considered alive... and at that point, deciding to end it is no longer up to anyone else.

But, I'm not naive enough to think this is going to change in America. Abortion has been cemented as a "woman's rights" issue, and that'll never go away. It'll likely never become more restrictive than it is today. I think I've always been on that "save the life of the mother or child" line in the back of my head... but elective abortions to rid yourself of a mistake you made is something I can never really support... God or no God. Laziness and actions have consequences... and determining the solution to that is to end a living thing doesn't sit right.

But that's just me. We've all got opinions, and we're not going to change them.

 

[jamil]

Told myself I wouldn't get involved in this line of conversations... but I don't think being against abortion is necessarily a religious stance. I'm not a religious person... there are people far more informed than I am on the subjects of God, faith, etc... and I leave it to them to figure it out.

I also don't play with the semantics of "personhood"... I think there is a point during gestation where something can be considered alive... and at that point, deciding to end it is no longer up to anyone else.

But, I'm not naive enough to think this is going to change in America. Abortion has been cemented as a "woman's rights" issue, and that'll never go away. It'll likely never become more restrictive than it is today. I think I've always been on that "save the life of the mother or child" line in the back of my head... but elective abortions to rid yourself of a mistake you made is something I can never really support... God or no God. Laziness and actions have consequences... and determining the solution to that is to end a living thing doesn't sit right.

But that's just me. We've all got opinions, and we're not going to change them.

And we're not all trying to shoot people who disagree with what we believe.

 

[Alpo]

The CDC has released data on the large discrepancy between the races (white, black, Hispanic) in regard to teenage pregnancy and abortion rates. The data below is from 2009 and represents teens aged 15-19.

What does that data mean? Well, to me, it says that it isn't a major issue for white people. You'd better spend your time and use electrons to deal with medical errors/malpractice which kills 100's of thousands per year, or support global initiatives for clean water and malaria control (unless of course you only care about US deaths).

A number of studies have linked the abortion rate among minorities to one of the factors for a lower incidence of crime, particularly violent crime. You can take that hot potato where you see fit...I'm not touching it.

 

[jamil]

The CDC has released data on the large discrepancy between the races (white, black, Hispanic) in regard to teenage pregnancy and abortion rates. The data below is from 2009 and represents teens aged 15-19.

What does that data mean? Well, to me, it says that it isn't a major issue for white people. You'd better spend your time and use electrons to deal with medical errors/malpractice which kills 100's of thousands per year, or support global initiatives for clean water and malaria control (unless of course you only care about US deaths).

A number of studies have linked the abortion rate among minorities to one of the factors for a lower incidence of crime, particularly violent crime. You can take that hot potato where you see fit...I'm not touching it.

I'd like to see the teen pregnancy rates for different income levels. I think it's linked also to poverty and, of course, education. I remember seeing some statistics released by Mississippi when I lived there. Mississippi ranked very high in teen pregnancies, which also affected whites. MS ranks among the lowest states in both income and education.

 

[Alpo]

Hey, jamil? Google is free. You just type in your question in the little box at the top.......

 

[steveh_131]

Let me google that for you

 

[jamil]

Hey, jamil? Google is free. You just type in your question in the little box at the top.......

Let me google that for you

This is proof that Google doesn't always have the answers to our whims and queries.

 

[indiucky]

What does that data mean? Well, to me, it says that it isn't a major issue for white people. You'd better spend your time and use electrons to deal with medical errors/malpractice which kills 100's of thousands per year, or support global initiatives for clean water and malaria control (unless of course you only care about US deaths).

A number of studies have linked the abortion rate among minorities to one of the factors for a lower incidence of crime, particularly violent crime. You can take that hot potato where you see fit...I'm not touching it.

I just don't like thinking I only care about issues that affect white people...Therefore in celebration of diversity I will do everything I can to see that everyone conceived gets a shot a life...With all of it's ups and downs...My choice.....

I read "Freakanomics" as well and thought that section was pretty messed up....Of course Margaret Sanger was thinking "See...I told you so..."

Sorry man...Eugenics just turns my stomach and it's tough to look into the subject of abortion without realizing where it will lead....

 

[jamil]

I just don't like thinking I only care about issues that affect white people...Therefore in celebration of diversity I will do everything I can to see that everyone conceived gets a shot a life...With all of it's ups and downs...My choice.....

I read "Freakanomics" as well and thought that section was pretty messed up....Of course Margaret Sanger was thinking "See...I told you so..."

Sorry man...Eugenics just turns my stomach and it's tough to look into the subject of abortion without realizing where it will lead....

So if we were uncaring, end-justifies-the-means pragmatists, just ****ing nuke trailer parks and inner cities.

 

[Dead Duck]

So if we were uncaring, end-justifies-the-means pragmatists, just ****ing nuke trailer parks and inner cities.

Man - Wouldn't that be great. It's a good start anyway.

 

[Alpo]

I just don't like thinking I only care about issues that affect white people...Therefore in celebration of diversity I will do everything I can to see that everyone conceived gets a shot a life...With all of it's ups and downs...My choice.....

I read "Freakanomics" as well and thought that section was pretty messed up....Of course Margaret Sanger was thinking "See...I told you so..."

Sorry man...Eugenics just turns my stomach and it's tough to look into the subject of abortion without realizing where it will lead....

A fellow INGO member said this just recently and I have to say that it is probably the most valid observation on the topic on this thread.

They are not pro-life....they are merely pro-birth.

 

[miguel]

So if we were uncaring, end-justifies-the-means pragmatists, just ****ing nuke trailer parks and inner cities.

Hey, now I'm interested in this thread again!

 

[BugI02]

If that article was intended to be an indictment of his "Christianity", it failed. His actions speak otherwise. I'm occasionally out in my garage... doesn't make me a car.

LMFAO! Can I steal that?

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DoggyDaddy again. Damn Marxist/Leninist rep apparat

 

[steveh_131]

that saying is older than a screen door on a battleship.