Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[Timjoebillybob]

Well, this thread should get you properly numb.

I'm not sure he's the one who would want to be numb. Read the last paragraph of post 1103 in this thread.

 

[jkaetz]

I think because Mike wants to believe that he's in the majority. That most people are like him. So to make this fallacious argument work he needs covenants to be easy to change. If were easy to change the covenants, then it can't be the case that most people don't like HOA's, because then most HOA's would get dissolved.

The truth is, once an association is formed, it's gonna be around for way more important reasons than people are too apathetic to change it. It's hard to get rid of the association because it takes a supermajority of homes to vote it out, if there's even a provision to dissolve it in the bylaws.



I don't think Mike would like that, because then he'd have to use his own argument. If HOA's had to be formed by homeowners, if he's in the majority, most would vote to have them. But I'd wager if homeowners had to create them, I think it would be a lot easier for people to find homes in neighborhoods without HOA's.

I do wonder why he wouldn't support this if he is so confident that a majority like HOAs. I also agree it would balance the HOA vs non-HOA neighborhood options. Or even potentially give you the ability to find an HOA where you do actually agree with the covenants.

See, this is why it's so hard to take you seriously. I read the post you replied to, and then saw your reply. How you got this out of that is not rationally obvious. This looks more to me like what someone would say when they don't know how to argue.



But you're not listening to anyone. People are saying that they may have to agree because of circumstances, not because they like what they had to agree to. So it's more like reluctantly signing a contract despite one's misgivings.

It is kind of like debating with my six year olds. At least Mike didn't look at me and say "Oh yeah? Well you're poopy!"

I would bet that a good number of HOA haters failed to do their due diligence when they bought their house being subject to an HOA and the relevant CCRs that govern the community. Then when they find out about the rules regarding caring for their property they bitch and moan repeatedly. I’ve seen this over the years and laugh at the ignorants who exhibit this behavior.

While this may have been the case in the 90's, I have a hard time believing that people don't understand how an HOA works in today's market. Personally I'm on my 2nd HOA neighborhood and I'm very familiar with how they work. Do I agree with everything in the covenants? Nope. Can I mostly live within the bounds? Sure. That is life. We rarely agree with all of the rules we are subject to.

The first neighborhood was about 1000 homes and had more restrictions such as the "You can't change your oil." type things. When I moved out after 12 years it was starting to look like the less expensive neighborhood it was and you rarely saw people out and about. Cars that didn't move, grass that wasn't taken care of even a few boats. Personally I didn't care and I'm pretty sure it didn't hurt the neighborhood values. I went to a few board meetings when I moved in. They were filled with complaining and still didn't have a quorum. Eventually they had to vote to reduce the quorum to something like 30% to get anything passed and even managed to lower the dues slightly. The house sold in three days for over ask and about 37% appreciation. Granted that didn't help as the house we purchased was of course more expensive and had also appreciated about the same amount. It has of course continued to appreciate like the rest of the homes and is now significantly more than when we purchased but that only gains us higher property tax since we don't plan to move again until the kids are out of the house.

Current neighborhood has ~90 homes, less restrictions but still includes landscaping directives, ~.3 - .4 acre lots, and is significantly more expensive that the previous. It also looks very nice and neighbors are neighborly. I doubt the HOA is responsible. The developer has in fact left us with landscaping directives that include maintaining two Bradford pear trees between the street and sidewalk on every lot. Guess what's happening now that these trees are bigger? Broken sidewalks and trees. I've also attended board meetings and even attempted to fill an empty spot on the board. Counting the four board members and management company rep I think there were 9 homeowners. I never heard anything after the meeting. Fortunately again they mostly leave us alone. My understanding is also that in Indiana HOAs have no power to fine, they can only send letters and ask a court for an injunction to gain compliance.

 

[jamil]

They were filled with complaining and still didn't have a quorum. Eventually they had to vote to reduce the quorum to something like 30% to get anything passed

When I was on the board, if there wasn't a quorum we just canceled the meeting. Meetings were usually in the president's house. There was never a board meeting where non board members were in attendance. Each board member represented a certain part of the neighborhood. So issues were brought to the board members. And the board members brought it to the board.

Most of the issues brought to me was squabbling neighbors, and most of those involved fences. When I saw someone I never talk to coming towards me I just wanted to say, if yer gonna complain about your neighbor's dog peeing on your fence, I'm going to kick you square in the balls.

 

[Dean C.]

I noticed you didn't answer if the covenants prohibit letting your dog poop in someone's yard and not cleaning it up. Are you perhaps a scoffcovenant yourself?

It’s not my fault he is not keeping track of what his tenants and their animals are doing in and around his brand new house. The inside of that house is probably trashed at this point with all the randos.

 

[BugI02]

The trolling is asking a trick question like “have you stopped beating your wife”,

That's begging the question, not trolling

 

[Timjoebillybob]

It’s not my fault he is not keeping track of what his tenants and their animals are doing in and around his brand new house. The inside of that house is probably trashed at this point with all the randos.

So yes, your just like the guy you are complaining about. Ignore the covenants if it suits you.

 

[BugI02]

Can you find a story about a rogue HOA in Indiana?

13 Investigates: Homeowners Associations

Why are some HOA neighborhoods literally crumbling? 13 Investigates shows you what happened, and what steps you can take to prevent a HOA nightmare.

www.wthr.com

 

[Ingomike]

Na, just people with eyes wide open to the horror stories that don't want others subject to that. Just like seeing college students advocating for communism, we already know communism is bad, so we'd warn people that it's bad.

As ignorant as the college students you cite. What you propose requires the taking of landowners freedom. So I’m warning the people that you have communist tendencies…

 

[BugI02]

The fact is they ALL agreed to buy in with the HOA in place, did they not?

This is specious Mike. Everybody buying a semi-automatic handgun in NY state 'agrees' to do so with no more than a ten round magazine. Does that mean they agreed with that restriction or that they weren't given any other choice?

You can't say people agree to something when they have no alternative

 

[Ingomike]

We have a name for this. It's called speaking out of both sides of your mouth. Usually though, it's typically not done in the same sentence! Congratulations? I guess?

For the purposes you intend, it is not easy to change covenants, particularly to dissolve an HOA. And that's what you've been peddling.

If you cannot understand what I said you lack the ability to discuss the topic. You guys bloviate about freedom while lamenting that it takes over 80% to change an HOA agreement.

 

[Ingomike]

Not quite sure where you get your legal info but here in IN about the only court that has a choice in accepting a case is the IN supreme court. All others must accept and hear them.

And that court found for the HOA. Are you really saying the courts are against the individual and for the HOA? I doubt that is the case.

You could be right. I went back and reread his post and it could be taken that way.

That is exactly what he posted.

The Constitution is a grant of limited power to the fed govt. The Bill of Rights would be more properly called the Bill of Restrictions. In that it further restricts the feds. Heck it even say so in it's preamble.

The constitution has no bearing on landowners rights to sell property the way they wish

 

[Ingomike]

13 Investigates: Homeowners Associations

Why are some HOA neighborhoods literally crumbling? 13 Investigates shows you what happened, and what steps you can take to prevent a HOA nightmare.

www.wthr.com

I love it, have to go back 12 years to find a story.

 

[Ingomike]

This is specious Mike. Everybody buying a semi-automatic handgun in NY state 'agrees' to do so with no more than a ten round magazine. Does that mean they agreed with that restriction or that they weren't given any other choice?

You can't say people agree to something when they have no alternative

The alternative is to not buy in an HOA. That simple. Sorry if you don’t like the options, build your own on your lot and have no HOA or covenants. This “forced” BS is just silly.

 

[BugI02]

I love it, have to go back 12 years to find a story.

You just said find one relevant to Indiana and I did so. If you wish to have further restrictions, such as a temporal one, you should specify those when you make the challenge

 

[Ingomike]

You just said find one relevant to Indiana and I did so. If you wish to have further restrictions, such as a temporal one, you should specify those when you make the challenge

With so many that hate their HOA it should be a piece of cake to find reasonably current stories…

 

[Mij]

17 pages just to keep up…..

G’night

 

[Timjoebillybob]

And that court found for the HOA. Are you really saying the courts are against the individual and for the HOA? I doubt that is the case.

Nope, just pointing out that you were incorrect.

That is exactly what he posted.

Not quite, he didn't specify exactly. Here is what he posted.

All this guy had to do was be nice and not park in front of my driveway. The amusing thing is that he has a 3 car garage and if he let the “tenets” use it instead of keeping it empty no one would have probably figured it out.

The constitution has no bearing on landowners rights to sell property the way they wish

Never said it did, once again simply correcting your error.

 

[jamil]

As ignorant as the college students you cite. What you propose requires the taking of landowners freedom. So I’m warning the people that you have communist tendencies…

Communist tendencies.



This conversation just keeps getting more absurd. Yeah. Let's just keep exploring how absurd it can get.

 

[jamil]

Oh, and happy 4th to you all!

 

[phylodog]

Oh, and happy 4th to you all!

Be sure to check your covenants before lighting that sparkler after 6pm!!!!!

We should set July 5th as too much freedom day and celebrate the creation of the homeowner's associations to restrict freedoms celebrated the day before.