Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[Ingomike]

Lol. Well I'm heading down to a friend's home in St Mary's co, MD in the next few days. He lives in a hoa community called Hearts Desire in Mechanicsville, Md.
Like many community's it was a farm that was subdivided.
Those lots go from about 5 to 40 acres.
Lots of community's across America don't have little lots.
You need to get out more often.

We are on INGO so I presume we are talking Indiana. And I gave MY opinion of a small lot when asked. I have been aware of entire farms being sold with deed restrictions.

 

[repeter1977]

Mine allows signs that are legal and no one has said anything about the school activity signs

So, what if the HOA changes that? Apparently quite a lot of others have. Because yours allows it that's all we need to know

 

[Ingomike]

Where did I say anything about this?

The only way to achieve what you define as freedom is to answer YES.

Yes or no, you agree that a law should be enacted that ALL land owners must sell ALL rights to property, no deed restrictions, no selling of individual rights, no covenants.

So again, what is your answer?

 

[Ingomike]

So, what if the HOA changes that? Apparently quite a lot of others have. Because yours allows it that's all we need to know

Then they changed it. That is what I agreed to when I bought the place.

 

[jamil]

That horse left the barn pages and pages ago, I was called a commie because I believe the landowners have the right to sell property as they want while retaining what rights they want because not allowing the buyer to buy all land rights was commie…

Yes. You've been arguing that land owners have the right to make their properties more communist.

 

[jamil]

If one cannot understand the difference between government and private contracts I cannot help them. Disappointed you even thought of this, you are better than that…

So if it's a government tyrannizing you, that's bad. If it's a private owner tyrannizing you through idiotic restrictions, that's cool.

 

[jamil]

The only way to achieve what you define as freedom is to answer YES.


So again, what is your answer?

I can answer. In my opinion, it's better for society if when someone sells land, the new owner gains all rights of the previous owner. If you didn't want a pig farm next to you, you shouldn't have sold the land. Or, you should have lobbied the county to rezone the land before you sold it.

 

[Ingomike]

I do wonder why he wouldn't support this if he is so confident that a majority like HOAs. I also agree it would balance the HOA vs non-HOA neighborhood options. Or even potentially give you the ability to find an HOA where you do actually agree with the covenants.

The reason I would not support this is one could never get agreement of the people, that is why the process whereby the owner of the property sets the restrictions and HOA in place and buyers can buy or not.

It is kind of like debating with my six year olds. At least Mike didn't look at me and say "Oh yeah? Well you're poopy!"

Those acting like six year olds are those wanting to strip landowners of their rights to sell property with deed restrictions, covenants, and HOA’s.

While this may have been the case in the 90's, I have a hard time believing that people don't understand how an HOA works in today's market. Personally I'm on my 2nd HOA neighborhood and I'm very familiar with how they work. Do I agree with everything in the covenants? Nope. Can I mostly live within the bounds? Sure. That is life. We rarely agree with all of the rules we are subject to.

The first neighborhood was about 1000 homes and had more restrictions such as the "You can't change your oil." type things. When I moved out after 12 years it was starting to look like the less expensive neighborhood it was and you rarely saw people out and about. Cars that didn't move, grass that wasn't taken care of even a few boats. Personally I didn't care and I'm pretty sure it didn't hurt the neighborhood values. I went to a few board meetings when I moved in. They were filled with complaining and still didn't have a quorum. Eventually they had to vote to reduce the quorum to something like 30% to get anything passed and even managed to lower the dues slightly. The house sold in three days for over ask and about 37% appreciation. Granted that didn't help as the house we purchased was of course more expensive and had also appreciated about the same amount. It has of course continued to appreciate like the rest of the homes and is now significantly more than when we purchased but that only gains us higher property tax since we don't plan to move again until the kids are out of the house.

Current neighborhood has ~90 homes, less restrictions but still includes landscaping directives, ~.3 - .4 acre lots, and is significantly more expensive that the previous. It also looks very nice and neighbors are neighborly. I doubt the HOA is responsible. The developer has in fact left us with landscaping directives that include maintaining two Bradford pear trees between the street and sidewalk on every lot. Guess what's happening now that these trees are bigger? Broken sidewalks and trees. I've also attended board meetings and even attempted to fill an empty spot on the board. Counting the four board members and management company rep I think there were 9 homeowners. I never heard anything after the meeting. Fortunately again they mostly leave us alone.

Some neighborhoods can manage and some can’t. I cited examples of three related subdivisions and their respective outcomes. The one HOA managed has always gotten the highest prices by far.

My understanding is also that in Indiana HOAs have no power to fine, they can only send letters and ask a court for an injunction to gain compliance.

My neighborhood has imposed fines and late penalties and collected for years.

 

[Ingomike]

So if it's a government tyrannizing you, that's bad. If it's a private owner tyrannizing you through idiotic restrictions, that's cool.

This is why we will never come to agreement on this, you cannot even express the situation accurately. I will ask you.

Yes or no, you agree that a law should be enacted that ALL land owners must sell ALL rights to property, no deed restrictions, no selling of individual rights, no covenants.

 

[jamil]

The reason I would not support this is one could never get agreement of the people

Then the argument you've been making falls flat on it's face.

 

[jamil]

 

[jamil]

This is why we will never come to agreement on this, you cannot even express the situation accurately. I will ask you.

Yes or no, you agree that a law should be enacted that ALL land owners must sell ALL rights to property, no deed restrictions, no selling of individual rights, no covenants.

See my answer from 3 minutes ago.

 

[Ingomike]

I can answer. In my opinion, it's better for society if when someone sells land, the new owner gains all rights of the previous owner. If you didn't want a pig farm next to you, you shouldn't have sold the land. Or, lobbied the county to rezone the land before you sold it.

So no need to debate HOA’s, you disagree with the legal foundation they come from.

Then suggested government involvement rather than a contractual agreement. WOW!

So the Indy airport must buy all the homes in its flight path instead of just buying air rights?

We will just have to disagree on this but thanks for putting it out there. It is silly to say a landowner should not be able to set up an HOA on their land but deny it is taking that landowners rights.

 

[repeter1977]

The only way to achieve what you define as freedom is to answer YES.


So again, what is your answer?

Again, my post had nothing to do this. This isn't a hard concept to understand but your question has absolutely nothing to do with my post. If you want, I can start asking questions that have nothing to do with this topic too.

 

[Ingomike]

Then the argument you've been making falls flat on it's face.

Not really as I do not believe that the winners will be who some of you think they will be. It would just create a fight and chaos with no resolution and possibly a neighborhood war.

 

[Creedmoor]

We are on INGO so I presume we are talking Indiana. And I gave MY opinion of a small lot when asked. I have been aware of entire farms being sold with deed restrictions.

Funny that no where in 1170 posts has it been "HOA's in Indiana" until you're again proven wrong.

An 86 yr old retired Realtor is still laughing at you.

 

[Ingomike]

Again, my post had nothing to do this. This isn't a hard concept to understand but your question has absolutely nothing to do with my post. If you want, I can start asking questions that have nothing to do with this topic too.

Freedom isn't forcing someone to make the choice. That's like the Freedom we had during covid? Take the shot or else. So, that's freedom according to you?
And yes, we talk about freedom because am 80% vote isn't freedom. You bloviate about an HOA being freedom while everyone else has poked holes in that silly theory.

It has everything to do with your post. The choice you are referencing is the choice to buy with or without an HOA. Do you not realize that “choice” is set up by the landowner and the only way to stop that choice is to take away the landowners rights to deed restrictions, create covenants, and create an HOA?

Yes or no, you agree that a law should be enacted that ALL land owners must sell ALL rights to property, no deed restrictions, no selling of individual rights, no covenants.

 

[Ingomike]

Funny that no where in 1170 posts has it been "HOA's in Indiana" until you're again proven wrong.

An 86 yr old retired Realtor is still laughing at you.

Again INGO is so blessed to have one of so much knowledge of the entire countries legal land laws to enlighten all of us…

 

[jamil]

So no need to debate HOA’s, you disagree with the legal foundation they come from.

Then suggested government involvement rather than a contractual agreement. WOW!

So the Indy airport must buy all the homes in its flight path instead of just buying air rights?

We will just have to disagree on this but thanks for putting it out there. It is silly to say a landowner should not be able to set up an HOA on their land but deny it is taking that landowners rights.

I mean, I've been saying, "WOW!" to you this whole thread. I think your way is silly.

Do air rights extend indefinitely into space? No, that's not practical. I think it's about 500 ft. If I'm near enough to the airport where 500 ft matters, I'd be happy to rent them some of my airspace. But they don't get exclusive rights. They'll have to go around if I'm flying my drone.

Similarly, I can see making a deal where the buyer grants use to the seller of parts of the rights that come with land ownership. But it wouldn't necessarily be exclusive nor permanent.

 

[jamil]

Not really as I do not believe that the winners will be who some of you think they will be. It would just create a fight and chaos with no resolution and possibly a neighborhood war.

LOL. You mean like all the wars that happened before developers started imposing HOA's on their deeds? You really do have a vivid imagination