Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[Ingomike]

Moving goal posts again. Just say you are mad I keep proving you wrong, you know what you think is trolling. You are mad the article proves you wrong on the missed payment. So, with that, I'm hoping karma for you. I hope I read another post on here where 80% of the HOA votes against you personally and well, you voted for it.

You will be long dead before that happens. You have proven nothing with a couple of BS articles but keep trying it is quite funny…

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Are you good with RV’s opinion half the drives, even if that drive is twenty feet from your house?

Not a problem at all. From where I'm sitting I can glance out the window and see my neighbors across the street. He also runs a business out of his home.

Are you good with a guy restoring cars or repairing vehicles, running compressors, welders, grinders, etc, again, twenty feet from your living room or bedroom?

Again not a problem. Heck my next door neighbor has a garage band. And their property is well under 20 ft from my family room.
But then again I'm not a control freak Karen.
Anymore questions?

Apparently some do not buy homes with covenants they can live with, I did. As I said before, and this post proves it you are a troll.

Covenants can be changed correct? I believe it was you that mentioned they were changed in your HOA, to disallow rentals. But I could be wrong.

The fact is they ALL agreed to buy in with the HOA in place, did they not?

Now this is disingenuous. At the least. Did they agree as a group to by the homes?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

Yep every house in my neighborhood is less than a year old , this guy has had his property listed as an air bnb since he closed in October 2023.

My new golden retriever puppy is ******** in this guys yard until his house is sold by the HOA. I have gone full scorched earth at this point. He has a Colorado, California and Michigan license plates cars in his driveway currently.



All this guy had to do was be nice and not park in front of my driveway. The amusing thing is that he has a 3 car garage and if he let the “tenets” use it instead of keeping it empty no one would have probably figured it out.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that letting your dog poop on someone else's property and not cleaning it up is most likely against the bylaws. Would I be correct on that?

Did you talk to him about parking in front of your driveway?

 

[2tonic]

Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?​

1. Because they smell funny.
2. Because too many of them want to ban flying the American flag.
For this alone, they can eff all the way off!
(Take your triggered ass and haul it down the road, Skippy, before I
decide to do some gel testing of those rock salt 12 gauges I
loaded last week.)
3. I didn't like Nazis when I was a kid, and I don't like them now.


Seriously, you do you. If an HOA makes your life easier, or better, then more power to you. I will never choose to live with one. In fact, the living situation I desire, and am working towards, would have my nearest neighbor 2 or more miles away, minimum.

 

[rhamersley]

I'm really surprised HOADS (similar to TDS) hasn't been mentioned yet...

 

[Creedmoor]

Bueller...... BUELLER...... BUELLER

 

[jamil]

Just like polls of how many guns people have I question the accuracy of polls on this as well.

Polls on guns are never as lopsided as the polls on HOA's. It's delusional to believe that most people like HOA's, given the ample evidence to the contrary.

So you are claiming that people don’t want HOA’s but they are being subjugated by 14%?

That's exactly what's happening. This is nothing new. How does a small minority build ClownWorld™?

The deeds can be changed if the owners want to do so.

Then why don't people in HOA's just change their deeds to not require them to be in an HOA? Hmm? Rather than getting on the board to thwart the HOA I was in, I'd much rather have just had the deed changed to allow me to ditch the association. You can't.

I believe in markets and there doesn't seem to be any market forces putting any pressure on developers to not create an HOA.

You must believe in fairies and Santa Clause too then. Hobson *** ****ed your market. Markets generally work when one side doesn't have a clear non-market based advantage over the other. The law favors developers who want HOA's.

So the people do not want an HOA but buy anyway? So if a developer built a neighborhood without the people would flock to that development? LOL

Yes, much like anyone who is had over a barrel reluctantly does the thing they'd rather not do. I've been calling that phenomenon a Hobson's Choice. It's also "take it or leave it".

If the local gas refinery has a monopoly on gas in an area, they can charge more than if there's competition. Pretty much all developers require HOA's. They do it because they believe it protects their investment. Because virtually all developers do it, there isn't a choice if you want a newer neighborhood. That's not a market decision. It's a suppliers decision because they have the upper hand.

The owners can do anything they as a group can agree on. That enough would not agree doesn’t negate the fact they can.

That's a really bad argument. Let's assume the figures projected in the polling. That 14% actually like and prefer to live in HOA's, 60% prefer not to live in HOA's.

So, say my family is looking for a home in a particular school district because reasons. We want a neighborhood rather than country living because reasons. We want to build rather than buy existing because reasons. There are no developing neighborhoods that meet our needs that don't have an HOA. So when the pros/cons add up, we reluctantly decide to be stuck with the HOA. 60% of the residents in the HOA are in the same boat. Don't want an HOA, but are stuck with one because of other needs, and there are no newer neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

Turns out the HOA lives up to all the stereotypes. Because stereotypes are often earned. The neighborhood requires 80% to change the covenants. Getting 80% of the neighborhood to de-fang the karens is difficult, because 60% is not 80%, and we can't convince enough of the apathetic people to join the cause. So then the 14% who admire karens get their way because they have us over a barrel.

I have too.


I did not start a joke thread.

Obviously you did. Because it is. It's just that you're not in on the joke, because you take this **** too seriously.

Why wouldn’t the market offer that option if the people really wanted it?

Because that's not how markets work in the reals. Power dynamics always *** **** markets. It's what happened to the healthcare market in the US? Do you think healthcare is a market? I don't. I don't think housing development is much of a market either. Developers have homebuyers over a barrel.

Yep, too self involved to do anything political or HOA.

Like I said, that's just the way some people are wired. They just want to go about life. I don't see anything wrong with that per se. But when people start to tyranize them, they need to step up and protect the life they just want to live.

People who are wired like you live for that. Not everyone does.

We agree on something…

yeah, we're both mysoginistic?

 

[jamil]

The vast majority of home buyers sign documents saying they agree to follow covenants and HOA. Maybe you call that acceptance but I call it agreement. Either way the gave their word in writing they would follow the covenants and the HOA. When I bought I took that literally as it is.

Agreeing emphatically isn't the same thing as agreeing reluctantly. The majority puts up with HOA's.

That is exactly what an HOA can do, I wanted no rentals like Dean is dealing with and the HOA came together and made it happen. Indyblue and I are never going to be on the same page, he wants to work on cars in his drive, and there are neighborhoods that allow that and I will never live in them. We both get a choice and have options.

Most association covenants in newer neighborhoods don't allow that. Because they like to put their noses where they don't belong I guess.

I mean, what do you have against a neighbor working on cars in his own driveway? I can see it being annoying if they just leave cars on blocks for months. A few days? That's like next level karen **** to me. If you see a dandilion in the neighbor's yard, do you go over there and spray herbicides when he's not home?

I've seen it happen. We had a neighbor across the street who lived next to someone who didn't like using "toxic" lawn chemicals. Whatever. Anway, they mowed their lawn like 3 times a week. They kept their place neat and orderly. But you know, dandilions pop up quickly after a mow during growing season. I saw that bitch neighbor in his yard spraying a patch of dandilions when they were gone.

While I poke a little fun at the whole "toxic lawn chemicals" thing, dude has a right to do his lawn as he pleases, just keep it mowed. And he did. The neighbor had no right to go over there and spray herbicides. She's way more toxic than the lawn chemicals.

 

[jkaetz]

The vast majority of home buyers sign documents saying they agree to follow covenants and HOA. Maybe you call that acceptance but I call it agreement. Either way the gave their word in writing they would follow the covenants and the HOA. When I bought I took that literally as it is.

They have accepted a set of documents presented as a whole, with no negotiation, that prescribes penalties for certain behavior. This is not the same as agreement with the restrictions.

That is exactly what an HOA can do, I wanted no rentals like Dean is dealing with and the HOA came together and made it happen. Indyblue and I are never going to be on the same page, he wants to work on cars in his drive, and there are neighborhoods that allow that and I will never live in them. We both get a choice and have options.

So if your HOA had dissolved its rules when the developer sold the last lot do you think you would have an 80% majority agree to all the existing rules?

 

[jamil]

They have accepted a set of documents presented as a whole, with no negotiation, that prescribes penalties for certain behavior. This is not the same as agreement with the restrictions.

So if your HOA had dissolved its rules when the developer sold the last lot do you think you would have an 80% majority agree to all the existing rules?

The document is called an agreement. But that does not imply that all the terms are agreeable to the homeowner. Mike doesn't like to admit that there is a lot of "take it or leave it" involved in a decision to sign a document. When I moved into a neighborhood years ago, I did not like the idea of an HOA. But, we wanted the area. It was our first home. We couldn't afford not to live in a neighborhood. And this was the least restrictive.

I didn't like HOA's, I didn't want to have to live in one. But we signed on anyway because there wasn't another choice available. And I held my end of the agreement the time we lived in that neighborhood. Signing the papers doesn't dissolve my right to disagree with the concept of HOA's, or to disagree with the rules.

There's an agreement, and there's agreeing with it. Those are two separate things that Mike doesn't seem to grasp.

 

[Dean C.]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that letting your dog poop on someone else's property and not cleaning it up is most likely against the bylaws. Would I be correct on that?

Did you talk to him about parking in front of your driveway?

It’s hard to talk to the owner when they don’t actually live there. Flyers are going up today to let all the neighbors know and all his “tenants” are getting fliers on their vehicles letting them know it’s not supposed to be an Air BnB.

I expressly bought a house in an HOA that does not allow rentals of any sort. I don’t want rentals in my neighborhood they end up trashy and run down

 

[Ingomike]

Not a problem at all. From where I'm sitting I can glance out the window and see my neighbors across the street. He also runs a business out of his home.

Again not a problem. Heck my next door neighbor has a garage band. And their property is well under 20 ft from my family room.
But then again I'm not a control freak Karen.
Anymore questions?

No questions at all, I am glad you have that option and I have others.

Covenants can be changed correct? I believe it was you that mentioned they were changed in your HOA, to disallow rentals. But I could be wrong.

They sure can but buying a property thinking you can change the covenants is stupider than marrying some gal thinking you can change her to what you want. Much better off getting what you want in the first place.

Mine were changed when the situation changed and our area became very profitable for renting, especially short term, and the owners wanted to keep it owner occupied.

Now this is disingenuous. At the least. Did they agree as a group to by the homes?

How is the truth disingenuous? Is it not true they did agree? What does when they agreed have to do with it? They did agree. If you sign a deed that has restrictions and or covenants one has agreed to those restrictions and covenants. Don’t agree to that which one does not want to agree.

 

[Ingomike]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that letting your dog poop on someone else's property and not cleaning it up is most likely against the bylaws. Would I be correct on that?

Did you talk to him about parking in front of your driveway?

It most likely is an investor that purchased the house solely to use as a hotel, happens a lot around popular attractions. Unlikely to even see the owner. Most localities are applying hotel tax if they are short term rented more than 7 or 14 days and the profitability goes poof…

 

[Ingomike]

Seriously, you do you. If an HOA makes your life easier, or better, then more power to you. I will never choose to live with one. In fact, the living situation I desire, and am working towards, would have my nearest neighbor 2 or more miles away, minimum.

Totally agree.

 

[Ingomike]

Polls on guns are never as lopsided as the polls on HOA's. It's delusional to believe that most people like HOA's, given the ample evidence to the contrary.

Why are the actions of those that dislike HOA’s nonexistent? Why don’t they in league with the reluctant at minimum neuter the HOA?

That's exactly what's happening. This is nothing new. How does a small minority build ClownWorld™?

Do not see the comparison. If they have the numbers why don’t they in league with the reluctant at minimum neuter the HOA?

Then why don't people in HOA's just change their deeds to not require them to be in an HOA? Hmm? Rather than getting on the board to thwart the HOA I was in, I'd much rather have just had the deed changed to allow me to ditch the association. You can't.

Not alone but that majority you claim exists can.

You must believe in fairies and Santa Clause too then. Hobson *** ****ed your market. Markets generally work when one side doesn't have a clear non-market based advantage over the other. The law favors developers who want HOA's.

It must be bad law and developers, can’t be that people just are not turned off enough by an HOA to do anything.

Yes, much like anyone who is had over a barrel reluctantly does the thing they'd rather not do. I've been calling that phenomenon a Hobson's Choice. It's also "take it or leave it".

If enough would leave it they would change it to what the majority demanded to sell their products at the highest price.

If the local gas refinery has a monopoly on gas in an area, they can charge more than if there's competition. Pretty much all developers require HOA's. They do it because they believe it protects their investment. Because virtually all developers do it, there isn't a choice if you want a newer neighborhood. That's not a market decision. It's a suppliers decision because they have the upper hand.

So you deny that markets work. Most developers do want the protection because the threat is real. If questions are properly worded most homeowners want the protection of their investment too.

That's a really bad argument. Let's assume the figures projected in the polling. That 14% actually like and prefer to live in HOA's, 60% prefer not to live in HOA's.

So, say my family is looking for a home in a particular school district because reasons. We want a neighborhood rather than country living because reasons. We want to build rather than buy existing because reasons. There are no developing neighborhoods that meet our needs that don't have an HOA. So when the pros/cons add up, we reluctantly decide to be stuck with the HOA. 60% of the residents in the HOA are in the same boat. Don't want an HOA, but are stuck with one because of other needs, and there are no newer neighborhoods that don't have HOA's.

Turns out the HOA lives up to all the stereotypes. Because stereotypes are often earned. The neighborhood requires 80% to change the covenants. Getting 80% of the neighborhood to de-fang the karens is difficult, because 60% is not 80%, and we can't convince enough of the apathetic people to join the cause. So then the 14% who admire karens get their way because they have us over a barrel.

Then buy your own lot, they are sold every day in most communities, and build your house. Oh yes, your kids want the pool to swim with their friends, your wife wants the walking trails and pickleball courts to meet up with her friends. It was you that was out voted in your own house.

Obviously you did. Because it is. It's just that you're not in on the joke, because you take this **** too seriously.

Well someone needs to correct all the lies spewed here with truth.

Because that's not how markets work in the reals. Power dynamics always *** **** markets. It's what happened to the healthcare market in the US? Do you think healthcare is a market? I don't. I don't think housing development is much of a market either. Developers have homebuyers over a barrel.

Maybe you should meet a few developers, maybe the ones that went bankrupt could enlighten you.

Like I said, that's just the way some people are wired. They just want to go about life. I don't see anything wrong with that per se. But when people start to tyranize them, they need to step up and protect the life they just want to live.

People who are wired like you live for that. Not everyone does.

Well that is exactly how the left drug us to clownworld…

We are.

 

[jkaetz]

The document is called an agreement. But that does not imply that all the terms are agreeable to the homeowner. Mike doesn't like to admit that there is a lot of "take it or leave it" involved in a decision to sign a document. When I moved into a neighborhood years ago, I did not like the idea of an HOA. But, we wanted the area. It was our first home. We couldn't afford not to live in a neighborhood. And this was the least restrictive.

I didn't like HOA's, I didn't want to have to live in one. But we signed on anyway because there wasn't another choice available. And I held my end of the agreement the time we lived in that neighborhood. Signing the papers doesn't dissolve my right to disagree with the concept of HOA's, or to disagree with the rules.

There's an agreement, and there's agreeing with it. Those are two separate things that Mike doesn't seem to grasp.

Yes this is precisely what I was trying to highlight as Mike has been using acceptance of the contractual agreement to imply actual agreement with the HOA covenants. It is a subtle but significant difference when accessing whether people like/support/want an HOA or not.

They sure can but buying a property thinking you can change the covenants is stupider than marrying some gal thinking you can change her to what you want. Much better off getting what you want in the first place.

Agreed. So why do you continue to say that it's easy to change the covenants?

Mine were changed when the situation changed and our area became very profitable for renting, especially short term, and the owners wanted to keep it owner occupied.

And, IMO, this is precisely how HOA covenants should be created, by the actual homeowners. Not handed down by the developers. I'm betting this would eliminate a lot of the foolish rules while keeping leave the genuinely beneficial rules and make them feel more like a community. It would then truly be the residents coming together to actually agree upon the covenants.

 

[Ingomike]

Agreeing emphatically isn't the same thing as agreeing reluctantly. The majority puts up with HOA's.

The only important part is AGREEMENT.

Most association covenants in newer neighborhoods don't allow that. Because they like to put their noses where they don't belong I guess.

Running an off the books hotel in a residential neighborhood is BS. Many neighbors near Airbnb’s report late noise and partying, just as most of us do when we travel with friends. Residential neighborhoods are just that, residential, where people live normal life.

In areas near popular family attractions 2-3 families will rent a big house to bring the kids and dogs. The kids run like crazy in a new place, the dogs bark in a strange place, and after the kids are out down the adults sit out on the deck drinking until early morning.

All this happened to a friend of mine just about thirty feet from his bedroom window. A new group would show up every few days. That is not residential. The HOA shut it down, as they should.

I mean, what do you have against a neighbor working on cars in his own driveway? I can see it being annoying if they just leave cars on blocks for months. A few days?

Sights, sounds, smells. Changing oil is one thing but I don’t want to hear compressors, grinders, impacts, etc. running generally in the evening or weekend when other folks are trying to enjoy their own home.

I've seen it happen. We had a neighbor across the street who lived next to someone who didn't like using "toxic" lawn chemicals. Whatever. Anway, they mowed their lawn like 3 times a week. They kept their place neat and orderly. But you know, dandilions pop up quickly after a mow during growing season. I saw that bitch neighbor in his yard spraying a patch of dandilions when they were gone.

While I poke a little fun at the whole "toxic lawn chemicals" thing, dude has a right to do his lawn as he pleases, just keep it mowed. And he did. The neighbor had no right to go over there and spray herbicides. She's way more toxic than the lawn chemicals.

Crazy lives everywhere…

 

[Ingomike]

They have accepted a set of documents presented as a whole, with no negotiation, that prescribes penalties for certain behavior. This is not the same as agreement with the restrictions.

They have accepted a set of documents presented as a whole, with no negotiation, that prescribes how neighbors will live.

So if your HOA had dissolved its rules when the developer sold the last lot do you think you would have an 80% majority agree to all the existing rules?

Do you think if we scrapped the Constitution even a bare majority would agree to the existing rules?

I’m fairly certain there would be no 2nd amendment…

 

[Ingomike]

The document is called an agreement. But that does not imply that all the terms are agreeable to the homeowner. Mike doesn't like to admit that there is a lot of "take it or leave it" involved in a decision to sign a document. When I moved into a neighborhood years ago, I did not like the idea of an HOA. But, we wanted the area. It was our first home. We couldn't afford not to live in a neighborhood. And this was the least restrictive.

Apparently repeatedly saying that the owner can put ANY restrictions that are legal in place is not a clear enough statement that the owner has every right to make it take it or leave it, but that is how it is in big multi parcel neighborhoods. They certainly cannot negotiate with 300 different buyers in one HOA.

I didn't like HOA's, I didn't want to have to live in one. But we signed on anyway because there wasn't another choice available. And I held my end of the agreement the time we lived in that neighborhood. Signing the papers doesn't dissolve my right to disagree with the concept of HOA's, or to disagree with the rules.

You certainly can live in an HOA and disagree with the concept, but you did agree to follow the covenants and are obligated to do so. Most trouble comes from those that think the rules do not apply to them.

There's an agreement, and there's agreeing with it. Those are two separate things that Mike doesn't seem to grasp.

Folks need to be true to their word if they signed they would.

 

[Ingomike]

Yes this is precisely what I was trying to highlight as Mike has been using acceptance of the contractual agreement to imply actual agreement with the HOA covenants. It is a subtle but significant difference when accessing whether people like/support/want an HOA or not.

The fact that buyers are not deterred from buying the home they want is a clear indication that the existence of an HOA is not a very big deal to most of them. Yes there is a difference in agreeing to covenants and really supporting them.

Agreed. So why do you continue to say that it's easy to change the covenants?

It is very easy to change covenants, as it should be. It is very hard to get consensus to change covenants as it should be.

And, IMO, this is precisely how HOA covenants should be created, by the actual homeowners. Not handed down by the developers. I'm betting this would eliminate a lot of the foolish rules while keeping leave the genuinely beneficial rules and make them feel more like a community. It would then truly be the residents coming together to actually agree upon the covenants.

Developers usually put in what they need to protect their investment which also protects the actual homeowners. If the rules are that onerous the neighborhood can get consensus and change it. Would you agree we should cancel our constitution and revote on it! No you would not.