Vaccinations. Yes or no ?

[DadOfFour]

i believe vaccination serves a necessary good for mankind. I will fight to preserve an individuals right to refuse vaccination, but i will also support & vote for banning an un vaccinated person from schools, collages, aircraft, international travel and so on..

the current delivery system for vaccinations may have some problems.. let's work to fix those.. but the idea of vaccinations works.. or standard of living would be much worse if we did not do it..

Why would you support banning those people from schools etc? Afterall, if your vaccine is so great, then it shouldn't concern you in the least that my child isn't vaccinated against those things, even if my kid gets it, your kid will be protected by your vaccine right?

 

[eldirector]

Polio is/was primarily transmitted by ingesting fecal matter.

Also by contact with mucus and saliva. Directly (sneezes) or indirectly (handling something that has been contaminated, and then touching your mouth).

But, yes, Fecal/oral is (or was) the most common method, and better sanitation certainly helps.

So, as long as you stay somewhere with good sanitation, you are less likely to be exposed to the Polio virus. If you are travelling to somewhere with "different" sanitation practices, and you have not acquired a resistance, then you will be at risk.

 

[singlestacksig]

Why would you support banning those people from schools etc? Afterall, if your vaccine is so great, then it shouldn't concern you in the least that my child isn't vaccinated against those things, even if my kid gets it, your kid will be protected by your vaccine right?

vaccination works as part of a system.. it is not 100% effective on an individual, but on a group it can be.. it lessens the density of viable hosts for the germ to thrive on..
thus reducing the spread & chance of mutations.. but allowing close contact or wide travel of an unprotected individual increases the risk of exposure to mutated forms of the target germ..

Smallpox was killed off because it could not find suitable hosts and so it eventually died off..

we have not been able to eradicate measles or polio because there are still pockets of active germs..
so we , as a civilization have to either get vaccinations, or segregate those who can be reservoirs for the germ..

 

[JettaKnight]

Why would you support banning those people from schools etc? Afterall, if your vaccine is so great, then it shouldn't concern you in the least that my child isn't vaccinated against those things, even if my kid gets it, your kid will be protected by your vaccine right?

This shows a clear lack of understanding how vaccinations work in a society.

 

[rambone]

so we , as a civilization have to either get vaccinations, or segregate those who can be reservoirs for the germ..

Before I get hauled off into a segregation camp, might I suggest that we stop trying to use government to socially engineer society? These ideas are getting pretty out there.

 

[DadOfFour]

vaccination works as part of a system.. it is not 100% effective on an individual, but on a group it can be.. it lessens the density of viable hosts for the germ to thrive on..
thus reducing the spread & chance of mutations.. but allowing close contact or wide travel of an unprotected individual increases the risk of exposure to mutated forms of the target germ..

Smallpox was killed off because it could not find suitable hosts and so it eventually died off..

we have not been able to eradicate measles or polio because there are still pockets of active germs..
so we , as a civilization have to either get vaccinations, or segregate those who can be reservoirs for the germ..

So, if I decide not to inject chemicals into my body which have a history of causing adverse reactions (whether you think it's a significant percentage of the cases or not you can't deny that adverse reactions, some fatal occur) you think that gives you the right/power to restrict my freedom of movement, freedom of assembly, pursuit of happiness? That's an interesting theory.
I decide what goes into my body and the bodies of my children. You have NO right to force me to put something in our bodies just because you think it's best!!!!! Please, cite for me the Constitutional Authority under which you would segregate me and my family. But hey if you find one the good news is I'm sure the plans for the concentration camps we used on Japanese-Americans during WWII are still in a government warehouse somewhere, you can just dust them off and lock up all us "undesirables" right? That's the American way isn't it?

 

[DadOfFour]

This shows a clear lack of understanding how vaccinations work in a society.

No it doesn't a vaccine is supposed to protect the person vaccinated against whatever disease it's for. Therefore if you've been vaccinated you have nothing to fear from somebody who isn't.......unless your vaccines don't work

 

[steveh_131]

No it doesn't a vaccine is supposed to protect the person vaccinated against whatever disease it's for. Therefore if you've been vaccinated you have nothing to fear from somebody who isn't.......unless your vaccines don't work

The point is that the system is collective.

You must vaccinate your kids for the benefit of the whole population, even if the vaccine doesn't make them personally immune.

It's very similar to communism, except instead of giving up your financial liberty for the greater good, they want you to give up your medical liberty.

 

[XDdreams]

I had hoped my sarcastic tone would be understood. Then directly under that sentence is my very time consuming and extensive research explanation. I appreciate your desire to come through and give your opinions on everyone's comments, but don't skim over them and not fully read them, while giving your opinionated two cents expecting everyone to take your words as law.

Your lack of credibility also comes to mind, due to the fact you read a few of the comments, and assume you've encapsulated the entire foundation of the conversation. That shows me that when you do your own personal research, you read a few thing on the topic and assume your a worldwide authority. Maybe its your personality type to be a know it all.

Disclaimer: I stopped reading about 50 posts in seeing that nothing new (or correct) has been introduced into this conversation since the last time we had it.


Amateur!!! That's not research. That's meta-research. If you can't get your hands on the original studies and not some reworked, warmed over version of them, you've got nothing.



Uh, no.

Because then it's people who smoke, people who drink, people who own guns. You need to perfect your argument a bit.



Fine. How about those of you who so adamantly refuse to vax STHU and quit trying to make the rest of society complicit in your choice? Just make it and go on with life. /quasi-sarcasm

The anti-vax crowd is just as bad, if not worse, than the vax crowd.

And for the umpteenth time, none of you know what you're talking about if you think "vax" is an adequate word to describe what it injected into the body. The "vax" is a cocktail. Sometimes/mostly of more than one bug, and always (with the rarest of exception that probably don't even account for 0.01% of the total vaxes administered) with additives that make mass production financially feasible. It is NOT the bugs that cause adverse reactions. It is the additives. So if you want to get on your righteous high horse and start preaching about how bad things are, GET IT RIGHT!!!!!

 

[singlestacksig]

So, if I decide not to inject chemicals into my body which have a history of causing adverse reactions (whether you think it's a significant percentage of the cases or not you can't deny that adverse reactions, some fatal occur) you think that gives you the right/power to restrict my freedom of movement, freedom of assembly, pursuit of happiness? That's an interesting theory.
I decide what goes into my body and the bodies of my children. You have NO right to force me to put something in our bodies just because you think it's best!!!!! Please, cite for me the Constitutional Authority under which you would segregate me and my family. But hey if you find one the good news is I'm sure the plans for the concentration camps we used on Japanese-Americans during WWII are still in a government warehouse somewhere, you can just dust them off and lock up all us "undesirables" right? That's the American way isn't it?

like i said before, i support an individual choice . but your choice may have effects on other things..
do you know how mankind regulated diseases before moderm medicine? over thosands of years it developed class societies and cast systems.. the feudal system of rulers had as much to do with fear of germs as monetary control..
you think it is a infringment on you rights to say you have to get a shot to go to a school? how about you just get banned from leaving your county because your people are "unclean" ?

germs became more of an issue in the 1800's as people traveled more ( and faster) and social class structures were torn down..

 

[DadOfFour]

The point is that the system is collective.

You must vaccinate your kids for the benefit of the whole population, even if the vaccine doesn't make them personally immune.

It's very similar to communism, except instead of giving up your financial liberty for the greater good, they want you to give up your medical liberty.

Sorry, I won't give up my financial freedom I'm DAMN sure not giving up my medical freedom!

like i said before, i support an individual choice . but your choice may have effects on other things..
do you know how mankind regulated diseases before moderm medicine? over thosands of years it developed class societies and cast systems.. the feudal system of rulers had as much to do with fear of germs as monetary control..
you think it is a infringment on you rights to say you have to get a shot to go to a school? how about you just get banned from leaving your county because your people are "unclean" ?

germs became more of an issue in the 1800's as people traveled more ( and faster) and social class structures were torn down..

I never asked you for the history of disease control. I'm still waiting for you to cite CONSTITUTIONAL AUTHORITY to segregate people who don't act as you wish.

BTW: I resent your implication that my children being in school unvaccinated is somehow detrimental to the health of the other students/faculty at the facility. Please, show me evidence of this, or retract your remark as it is factually inaccurate.

 

[JettaKnight]

So, if I decide not to inject chemicals into my body which have a history of causing adverse reactions (whether you think it's a significant percentage of the cases or not you can't deny that adverse reactions, some fatal occur) you think that gives you the right/power to restrict my freedom of movement, freedom of assembly, pursuit of happiness? That's an interesting theory.

When did we start talking about heroin?

 

[rambone]

How it works

This shows a clear lack of understanding how vaccinations work in a society.

How it works:

From the day of your birth, vaccines are pressured on you. You will be guilt-tripped some more at your subsequent "well baby" checkups and unrelated doctor visits. Some doctors will "fire" patients who refuse to take their recommended drugs. You may even be asked to sign a form at the doctor's office admitting your negligence as a parent if you refuse. Pro-pharma propaganda will fill your consciousness on TV, radio, government literature, in schools, in the news, commercials, on children's shows, in stores, in magazines, from politicians, on the streets, etc. Government will bully you for not taking their sponsored medicine. And members of the herd will discard your concerns and threaten to void out your rights if you don't conform.

When vaccines fail to keep you immune, its because you didn't purchase enough booster shots. These wonder drugs that are pushed so heavily offer no guarantee of success. That said, non-vaxers are the root of all the troubles of the herd.

Reactions are blamed on everything from allergies, what you ate, coincidence, a publicity stunt, an underlying condition, or Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. Regardless of your injuries or where they came from, one thing is certain: They were worth it to society and they are a necessary evil. Don't speak out too much or you'll be mocked for believing in magic.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm amazed at how we in America debate this. Obviously, we're so health and the risk of disease is so rare that we're willing to roll the dice based on some junk science and paranoia about vaccinations.

Most people around the world wouldn't dream of passing up vaccinations. But, they're not as rich as we are...

 

[bigus_D]

This is my favorite gun board topic!!! I LOVE vaccines. Was disappointed at my 2yr olds last checkup. Only one booster!?! Man, what a rip off.

 

[DadOfFour]

I'm amazed at how we in America debate this. Obviously, we're so health and the risk of disease is so rare that we're willing to roll the dice based on some junk science and paranoia about vaccinations.

Most people around the world wouldn't dream of passing up vaccinations. But, they're not as rich as we are...

Why do you refer to the studies showing the dangers of vaccines as junk science? I mean, I assume you have some facts to back up that assertion?


Look, here's what it comes down to, you have the freedom to vaccinate yourself and your children, I have the freedom to not vaccinate myself and my children if I see fit. I won't try to push my belief structure on you, as long as you don't try to push yours on me. Now, if you try to take away my freedoms or those of my children because we've exercised our freedom to choose that's when we're going to have a problem.

 

[Misplaced Yankee]

BTW: I resent your implication that my children being in school unvaccinated is somehow detrimental to the health of the other students/faculty at the facility. Please, show me evidence of this, or retract your remark as it is factually inaccurate.

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Some Misconceptions

If you can't read it all (I know, it's long, I'm tired too from reading the 40pages of anti-vax written by the same three guys) read number 5.

Read and then return to the conversation. We'll still be here. Think of it as a prerequisite for furthering the conversation. When your beliefs endanger society in general, we have the right to remove you from society. If you were crapping in a drinking fountain, we'd have some issues. Correct?

 

[rambone]

Molon Labe

When your beliefs endanger society in general, we have the right to remove you from society.

"You bring your syringe, I'll bring my .45. We'll see who makes the bigger hole."

-- Michael Badnarik

 

[DadOfFour]

Vaccines: Vac-Gen/Some Misconceptions

If you can't read it all (I know, it's long, I'm tired too from reading the 40pages of anti-vax written by the same three guys) read number 5.

Read and then return to the conversation. We'll still be here. Think of it as a prerequisite for furthering the conversation. When your beliefs endanger society in general, we have the right to remove you from society. If you were crapping in a drinking fountain, we'd have some issues. Correct?

There is no number 5? However, I've seen/read that page in the past. How exactly does me not vaccinating my children endanger society? Short answer, it doesn't....at least, not as long as the stuff you've stuck in your kids actually does what it says it does.....

 

[Jake46184]

If the discussion is limited to the common influenza "vaccinations" being offered on every street corner, then the answer is NO. Your statistical probablity of contracting an influenza virus does not change AT ALL with or without the supposed protection. The ONLY ones who benefit are the pharmaceutical who makes it and the provider who sticks it in your arm. These groups make HUGE profits on what is no more than placebo. Politicians, who cater to a population which is mostly uneducated, dare not speak in common sense terms on the topic...great way to be villified by the media and your opponent.

Don't get "flu" vaccines. They are for those who must be led by the nose ring.