Vaccinations. Yes or no ?

[XDdreams]

Making a generalized statement with no factual information makes you the leading authority on mere opinions. Because you say so, it must be ! I've read studies on both sides of the spectrum. Oh wait reading is a myth, because I say so.

Oh, and autisim is not connected to vaccines... its a myth

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

Making a generalized statement with no factual information makes you the leading authority on mere opinions. Because you say so, it must be ! I've read studies on both sides of the spectrum. Oh wait reading is a myth, because I say so.

OK here are some facts - the main doc that kicked off the MMR-Autism link has been exposed as having faked his data. By all accounts he was trying to profit from the situation as well. That much is pretty well accepted. That turned the whole argument into a Class A Schweinerei that cannot be adequately described in a family friendly manner.

fact #2 - Rambone has had a family member affected badly by a vaccine.

Fact #3 - Doctors and scientists are not God. They are not infallible. While they have studied, and they work to weed out problems - crap still happens.

I can understand why Rambone might have the (illogical to me, but emotionally understandable) reaction to not get stuck with a needle again in his life. It is his choice. Logically, he'd have better odds of hitting the lottery than getting harmed by the next vaccine. Granted - avoiding the gardasil one makes sense. As does practicing safer behavior. But making the conceptual leap that gardasil == all vaccines is like saying that last night's spaghetti sucked - so I'm never eating my wife's cooking again. Nor her sister's! Not my choice of how to handle it - BUT IT IS HIS RIGHT. I do worry a little when we try to justify those decisions by going on a conspiracy witch hunt against all vaccines. I ALSO worry when we hold up medicine and science as being infallible. Both have some big issues.

As for the autism-MMR thing - I look at it this way. If you lie to me in business (not a screw up, but a bald faced lie), it's going to take A LOT of positive steps to ever rebuild that trust. This man cooked the books. There's going to have to be a crap-ton of evidence going the other way before I start believing that there's a link. And "well - it's a conspiracy" is not sufficient...

 

[XDdreams]

I understand and appreciate your view point. But one man, in my eyes , does not ruin the credibility of the countless other doctors who have negative outlooks on vaccination.
By that rationale none of us should have guns, because of the countless number of bad seeds who improperly use them.

OK here are some facts - the main doc that kicked off the MMR-Autism link has been exposed as having faked his data. By all accounts he was trying to profit from the situation as well. That much is pretty well accepted. That turned the whole argument into a Class A Schweinerei that cannot be adequately described in a family friendly manner.

fact #2 - Rambone has had a family member affected badly by a vaccine.

Fact #3 - Doctors and scientists are not God. They are not infallible. While they have studied, and they work to weed out problems - crap still happens.

I can understand why Rambone might have the (illogical to me, but emotionally understandable) reaction to not get stuck with a needle again in his life. It is his choice. Logically, he'd have better odds of hitting the lottery than getting harmed by the next vaccine. Granted - avoiding the gardasil one makes sense. As does practicing safer behavior. But making the conceptual leap that gardasil == all vaccines is like saying that last night's spaghetti sucked - so I'm never eating my wife's cooking again. Nor her sister's!

As for the autism-MMR thing - I look at it this way. If you lie to me in business (not a screw up, but a bald faced lie), it's going to take A LOT of positive steps to ever rebuild that trust. This man cooked the books. There's going to have to be a crap-ton of evidence going the other way before I start believing that there's a link. And "well - it's a conspiracy" is not sufficient...

 

[Double T]

Its not one man. There has not been one case linking any vaccination to autism. I believe it is being diagnosed as a personality disorder and not basicallY MRDD.

The literature that is given with my childrens vaccinations read, basically, that no link has been found or linked to associate adverse injection reactions with autism, though some people believe and are looking into it.

More clearly stated were the common side effects: redness, bruising, warmth, inflammatory responses to the shot. As well as systemic responses such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. And then onto the more emergent and life threatening. Tachycardia, bradycardia, anaphylaxis, swollen lips/5ongue/#irway, kidney dysfunction, livere dysfunction, full on MMR infection, etc.

Also, doctors and scientists may not be "God" but in my experience their practices have pretty much taken over for "faith healing" with the more knowledge that we acquire about biology, pathophysiology, and the human genome.

 

[XDdreams]

Thank you for your Outlook. But why would your doctors give you any literature on
thimerosal additives in vaccinations ? A solution which contains almost 50% mercury. You would never take it or allow your children to. I implore you to spend a few months and revisit your statement of " not one case linking vaccination to autism", along with the other side effects that are out there and happening. Are doctors killing endless numbers of children with vaccinations laughing ominously as the needle penetrates the skin, probably not. But there are severe reactions happening ...

Its not one man. There has not been one case linking any vaccination to autism. I believe it is being diagnosed as a personality disorder and not basicallY MRDD.

The literature that is given with my childrens vaccinations read, basically, that no link has been found or linked to associatejection reactions with autism, though some people believe and are looking into it.

More clearly stated were the common side effects: redness, bruising, warmth, inflammatory responses to the shot. As well as systemic responses such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. And then onto the more emergent and life threatening. Tachycardia, bradycardia, anaphylaxis, swollen lips/5ongue/#irway, kidney dysfunction, livere dysfunction, full on MMR infection, etc.

Also, doctors and scientists may not be "God" but in my experience their practices have pretty much taken over for "faith healing" with the more knowledge that we acquire about biology, pathophysiology, and the human genome.

 

[Knight 1]

I know this is a passionate question so no matter what side you come out on you will be criticized. The Autism link has been disproved however those that disagree will not budge from there position. I worked in healthcare and no of no one who who choose not to have there children inoculated.

 

[ATOMonkey]

The idea of the vaccination is a great one. Back when vaccines were done with either live cultures, or anti-bodies (puss) there was little risk of an adverse reaction outside of the symptoms of that disease. (which were a risk in and of itself obviously)

Modern vaccines that are mass produced, and chemically altered to preserve the solution, simply insert an additional risk.

That risk is obviously low, but it is still present. To be-little the fact that people die from reactions with drugs is just as bad as white-washing the entire idea of vaccination as some kind of conspiracy theory.

Due diligence would require that the doctor test the patient to determine if they will react to the drug PRIOR to administering it. The FDA has made people lazy (or too trusting, take your pick), and sometimes the doctor may not even care if 1 or 2 patients has a bad reaction since soooooooo many people go through their practice every day.

I also think it quite arrogant to assume that ALL human physology is exactly the same and that everyone will react in an identical manner to every substance in the universe.

Regarding Autism, no one knows what causes it, so it's entirely plausible that it's the result of a reaction to medication. It could also be a reaction to our environment, or the food we eat. It may also be genetic and there's nothing we can do about it. More than likely, it's a combination of factors.

Dismissing an idea out of hand is the root of bad science and gives us things like "global warming" that are the result of a "scientific vote" rather than any actual causal investigation.

ALL theories should be explored and validated if they have merit. I seriously doubt we're done learning, when it comes to the human body.

 

[XDdreams]

Well stated and extremely logical.

The idea of the vaccination is a great one. Back when vaccines were done with either live cultures, or anti-bodies (puss) there was little risk of an adverse reaction outside of the symptoms of that disease. (which were a risk in and of itself obviously)

Modern vaccines that are mass produced, and chemically altered to preserve the solution, simply insert an additional risk.

That risk is obviously low, but it is still present. To be-little the fact that people die from reactions with drugs is just as bad as white-washing the entire idea of vaccination as some kind of conspiracy theory.

Due diligence would require that the doctor test the patient to determine if they will react to the drug PRIOR to administering it. The FDA has made people lazy (or too trusting, take your pick), and sometimes the doctor may not even care if 1 or 2 patients has a bad reaction since soooooooo many people go through their practice every day.

I also think it quite arrogant to assume that ALL human physology is exactly the same and that everyone will react in an identical manner to every substance in the universe.

Regarding Autism, no one knows what causes it, so it's entirely plausible that it's the result of a reaction to medication. It could also be a reaction to our environment, or the food we eat. It may also be genetic and there's nothing we can do about it. More than likely, it's a combination of factors.

Dismissing an idea out of hand is the root of bad science and gives us things like "global warming" that are the result of a "scientific vote" rather than any actual causal investigation.

ALL theories should be explored and validated if they have merit. I seriously doubt we're done learning, when it comes to the human body.

 

[ATOMonkey]

I also have a good knowledge of how these medications are manufactured and who is pusing the buttons and pulling the levers.

It's the same people who could get a job tomorrow chaning oil. The whole process is highly automated and relies upon the system to work properly in order to make the drug correctly. Machines break and people make mistakes though. Some people don't care if they do a good job or not, as long as they still get paid.

Caveat emptor.

 

[Pocketman]

Although somewhat experimental at the time, Washington successfully inoculated his troops against smallpox which may have been a greater threat than the British. It can therefore be argued that this action saved the Continental Army and therefore contributed to the founding of our nation.

 

[bigg cheese]

Doctors rely too much on their own knowledge. Every night on a news channel, someone says "chocolate, coffee, etc" is good for you. A year later, it's bad for you. I even know people who smoked their entire lives and have a fine set of lungs. Whatever happened to pox parties?

I don't hate vaccines, and my daughter has had all the ones our family doctor recommends for her age, but when the government starts telling me what my daughter must do to partake in a government funded education, they can bite me.

Now I won't debate the merits of gardasil or what have you, -- I haven't studied it, but the news reports I've been hearing about school nurses administering vaccines without parental consent. That is ridiculous. /rant (sorry)

 

[ATOMonkey]

Although somewhat experimental at the time, Washington successfully inoculated his troops against smallpox which may have been a greater threat than the British. It can therefore be argued that this action saved the Continental Army and therefore contributed to the founding of our nation.

Exactly. However, his success rate would have been considered woeful and completely shut down by today's FDA standards.

I think the "scrape and cut" innoculation was about 97%-98% effective as memory serves.

Better than having over 50% of the army down with the pox though.

 

[ATOMonkey]

Doctors rely too much on their own knowledge. Every night on a news channel, someone says "chocolate, coffee, etc" is good for you. A year later, it's bad for you. I even know people who smoked their entire lives and have a fine set of lungs. Whatever happened to pox parties?

I don't hate vaccines, and my daughter has had all the ones our family doctor recommends for her age, but when the government starts telling me what my daughter must do to partake in a government funded education, they can bite me.

Now I won't debate the merits of gardasil or what have you, -- I haven't studied it, but the news reports I've been hearing about school nurses administering vaccines without parental consent. That is ridiculous. /rant (sorry)

Precisely, medicine is always advancing.

In the 1970s, do you know what the treatment was to prevent premature labor?


Ethanol IV.

That was the prescribed treatment of the day and everyone in the obstetric community considered it to be "good medicine."

 

[XDdreams]

Excellent input. But may I add comparing George Washington to our current politicians and presidents is like comparing angels to piles of fecal matter.

Although somewhat experimental at the time, Washington successfully inoculated his troops against smallpox which may have been a greater threat than the British. It can therefore be argued that this action saved the Continental Army and therefore contributed to the founding of our nation.

 

[sbcman]

I haven't studied it, but the news reports I've been hearing about school nurses administering vaccines without parental consent. That is ridiculous. /rant (sorry)

I haven't either, but this is another reason for parents with kids in public school to very carefully review anything they sign for the child to be in school. Also reason to demand to see supposed "signed paperwork" if something comes up.

(Local school system once took a class, with my kid, to an eye doctor off school property without my permission. Said I signed paperwork to do it, so I asked to see it but they never could produce it.)

Precisely, medicine is always advancing.

In the 1970s, do you know what the treatment was to prevent premature labor?


Ethanol IV.

Seems like that would speed it up to me

 

[ATOMonkey]

Seems like that would speed it up to me

You're thinking of conception I think.

 

[Fletch]

My dogs and I get our distemper shots all at once, for a bulk discount.

 

[sbcman]

You're thinking of conception I think.

My dogs and I get our distemper shots all at once, for a bulk discount.

FTW!

 

[ocsdor]

Some links for the new people:

Indiana State Exemption Information

Vaccine information

Dr. Tenpenny on Vaccines

 

[ATOMonkey]

I like our Ped. He is a very rational, borderline skeptic man when it comes to medication, and after talking with him, we opted out of the swine flu vac for our son.

He did recommend the others, and we chose to innoculate both of our children based on my own research and his recommendation. Neither children reacted adversely to the medication, as we expected.