Trooper Forgets Handgun

[LPMan59]

I would like to quote from the "Man's Journal: Ask Yourself Am I Gay?" Not saying your gay, so please don't take offense to it...
-- Rule#4. If you refuse to take a dump in a public bathroom or **** in a parking
lot, you crave a deep homosexual relationship. A man's world is his bathroom; he defecates and urinates where he pleases.

you obviously have never had to clean a public restroom have you? at my job, the good people of muncie **** all over the toilets, the floors, the toilet handle and the sink. they smear feces on the toilet seats, on the walls and the mirrors.

homosexuality has nothing to do with it. hepatitis A and hookworms on the other hand....

 

[LEaSH]

I just returned from a week long stay in Dallas. There is not a clean public restroom in the entire city.
Might as well pee in a non-sticky corner of the restaurant or bar.

 

[Glock21]

So I did a quick Google and here is the tip of the iceberg of stories that involve police officers leaving their guns in bathrooms.

Officer left gun in courthouse bathroom

http://www.local6.com/news/8317629/detail.html

Bar patron fired police gun left behind in bathroom by Grand Rapids officer | - MLive.com

Tony Blair Bodyguard Leaves Gun in Starbucks Bathroom - International News | News of the World | Middle East News | Europe News - FOXNews.com

Herald-Journal - Google News Archive Search

Man leaves gun in Lookout bathroom: Robbery foiled? | CHS Capitol Hill Seattle Blog

Law Enforcement: Officers Lose 243 Homeland Security Guns | Feral Jundi

Officer leaves loaded gun in London Starbucks toilet - Times Online

Officer left gun in courthouse bathroom - UPI.com

Sheriff's Officer Leaves Gun In Courthouse Bathroom - Democratic Underground

Gun Goes Off While SAPD Officer Goes To Bathroom - San Antonio News Story - KSAT San Antonio

Laramie police chief leaves loaded gun in restaurant bathroom

Perhaps I'm just getting less judgemental in my old age, but my first thought when I read such things is not to tar, feather and fire the officer. My first thought is: who failed them during training?

Can we please try to remember that not everyone who goes into the police business does so because they like guns and they get to carry one? Most actually don't care one way or the other about guns, and most have very little experience with guns. Yes, I understand the responsibility, and yes I too would think that responsibility would be self explanitory and something that anyone who carries a gun would take a moment to think about. But that is simply not the case, and it is something that if not addressed properly in training leaves officers open to mistakes and accidents.

And truth be told hardley any of these events actually make it to the newspapers. I personally know of a local sheriff's deputy in my area who left a gun in a hardware store bathroom, and his department never found out - all because one of my students is the manager at the store, secured the gun and waited for the phone call. I also know that the NYC Port Police have lost over a dozen guns to theft while officers are using the bathroom, and none of those cases ever made the news.

Now, again, maybe it's just because I run in these circles and I hear about these things all the time, but if we decided to fire every officer who mishandles a gun, we'd be hard pressed to field three shifts a day in any city or county.

This is a training issue, and it's one we should all demand be addresses by our local departments.

All that being said, yeah, I agree that someone who leaves their gun behind in a public place has done a very bad thing and has potentially put lives at risk. But again, this is why we have review boards, courts, and due process. Sometimes things are bad, but they're not that bad. Much like leaving your child in a heated car for 3-minutes in January while you walk in to pick up dry cleaning is not the same as leaving your child in a car in July for 45-minutes while you pop into the bar for a beer.

A gun left in a rarely used bathroom and found by a store manager who has had firearms training, is not quite on the same level as a gun left in a grade school bathroom and found by an 8-year old. Sure, they both suck, and are both irresponsible, and they both deserve some sort of punishment, but much like all things in life, they are surrounded with degrees of damage, intent, aftermath and risk.

 

[E5RANGER375]

Perhaps I'm just getting less judgemental in my old age, but my first thought when I read such things is not to tar, feather and fire the officer. My first thought is: who failed them during training?

Can we please try to remember that not everyone who goes into the police business does so because they like guns and they get to carry one? Most actually don't care one way or the other about guns, and most have very little experience with guns. Yes, I understand the responsibility, and yes I too would think that responsibility would be self explanitory and something that anyone who carries a gun would take a moment to think about. But that is simply not the case, and it is something that if not addressed properly in training leaves officers open to mistakes and accidents.


All that being said, yeah, I agree that someone who leaves their gun behind in a public place has done a very bad thing and has potentially put lives at risk. But again, this is why we have review boards, courts, and due process. Sometimes things are bad, but they're not that bad. Much like leaving your child in a heated car for 3-minutes in January while you walk in to pick up dry cleaning is not the same as leaving your child in a car in July for 45-minutes while you pop into the bar for a beer.

A gun left in a rarely used bathroom and found by a store manager who has had firearms training, is not quite on the same level as a gun left in a grade school bathroom and found by an 8-year old. Sure, they both suck, and are both irresponsible, and they both deserve some sort of punishment, but much like all things in life, they are surrounded with degrees of damage, intent, aftermath and risk.

i pay my taxes and so do you all, so why do i have to settle for second best?? sorry but im not going to ever settle or say, yeah they screwed up big time but if we fire them we will be short handed. SO F***ing WHAT!!! work a little harder to cover the shift. dont sit in your public owned police car and watch movies your whole damn shift! or sleep!! it goes on more than we hear about. a lot of police AND firefighters AND other government employees WASTE OUR MONEY and its accepted! ITS BULL CRAP!!!
I know ALL patrol police (yes i said all) get crappy firearms training, well why do i pay for it then? give them the best! pretty sad when we have civilians who can shoot better than police, and then you hear of police that fire 2 mags worth of rounds at a bad guy and hit him once or maybe not at all. thats a joke and a slap in the face to all of us tax payers.

also do we non-union employees get due process at our jobs??? NOPE, indiana is one of the worse states in the union when it comes to protecting workers rights, its a fire at will state. i think unions (police unions included) that let people show up to work drunk, break the law, drive drunk, beat up someone, be insubordinate, and STILL KEEP THEIR JOB IS BULL CRAP TOO!!!! unions are bull crap when they protect criminals.

this guy needs fired, not sheltered by his own "family" who may ridicule him but will still protect him even if he had the potential to kill someone innocent! i think we need independant NON-LE 3rd party people to investigate all complaints against cops. when an organization investigates itself you WILL ALWAYS HAVE CORUPTION!!

 

[level.eleven]

I did this as well 15 years ago when I was fresh out of field training. I was with a prisoner on station and heard a 911 call over the radio that was only a few blocks down the street from the station. The call was about a Man chasing a 12 year old boy around with a machete. I rushed out to the home and found the front door open. I saw the boy hiding under the kitchen table as the man was pacing around him with the large knife. I entered the home.. started yelling for him to drop the knife.... and then realized I didn't have my weapon... Haven't used my finger gun since I was a kid and was surprised it worked. The calvery showed up and everyone immediately noticed my empty holster. To this day I still hear about it from the guys that are still around.

We do mess up from time to time & we learn from our mistakes. This Trooper will be dealt with im sure as I have seen this happen before. One of our guys was suspended 5 days without pay, stripes taken, and payed for the weapon he lost in the public bathroom. After all we are all human...

I hope you don't mind, but that made me chuckle quite a bit.

For the story...I give it a big....meh. He forgot his gun taking a dump. Accidents happen and I'm sure a flattering nickname has come out of the scenario.

Now, I don't think he should have been given it back until it was held for 7 months (then destroyed, then found again, then lost, then found again), ballistics tested, and he was finger printed. Fair is Fair.

 

[youngda9]

i pay my taxes and so do you all, so why do i have to settle for second best?? sorry but im not going to ever settle or say, yeah they screwed up big time but if we fire them we will be short handed. SO F***ing WHAT!!! work a little harder to cover the shift. dont sit in your public owned police car and watch movies your whole damn shift! or sleep!! it goes on more than we hear about. a lot of police AND firefighters AND other government employees WASTE OUR MONEY and its accepted! ITS BULL CRAP!!!
I know ALL patrol police (yes i said all) get crappy firearms training, well why do i pay for it then? give them the best! pretty sad when we have civilians who can shoot better than police, and then you hear of police that fire 2 mags worth of rounds at a bad guy and hit him once or maybe not at all. thats a joke and a slap in the face to all of us tax payers.

also do we non-union employees get due process at our jobs??? NOPE, indiana is one of the worse states in the union when it comes to protecting workers rights, its a fire at will state. i think unions (police unions included) that let people show up to work drunk, break the law, drive drunk, beat up someone, be insubordinate, and STILL KEEP THEIR JOB IS BULL CRAP TOO!!!! unions are bull crap when they protect criminals.

this guy needs fired, not sheltered by his own "family" who may ridicule him but will still protect him even if he had the potential to kill someone innocent! i think we need independant NON-LE 3rd party people to investigate all complaints against cops. when an organization investigates itself you WILL ALWAYS HAVE CORUPTION!!

Can someone in Indy give this guy a hug.

I agree with much of what you are saying...but it's a major rant and getting OT.

 

[E5RANGER375]

just returning the arguments. same as anyone, sorry if im always right

this whole forum is one big rant in one way or another

 

[jeremy]

sorry if im always right

It is to be expected from a Sergeant...

Quit apologizing, makes you sound like a sissy...

 

[trnsplntfrmohio]

I would like to quote from the "Man's Journal: Ask Yourself Am I Gay?" Not saying your gay, so please don't take offense to it...
-- Rule#4. If you refuse to take a dump in a public bathroom or **** in a parking
lot, you crave a deep homosexual relationship. A man's world is his bathroom; he defecates and urinates where he pleases.

No I'm just a germaphobe.

 

[Glock21]

i pay my taxes and so do you all, so why do i have to settle for second best?? sorry but im not going to ever settle or say, yeah they screwed up big time but if we fire them we will be short handed. SO F***ing WHAT!!! work a little harder to cover the shift. dont sit in your public owned police car and watch movies your whole damn shift! or sleep!! it goes on more than we hear about. a lot of police AND firefighters AND other government employees WASTE OUR MONEY and its accepted! ITS BULL CRAP!!!
I know ALL patrol police (yes i said all) get crappy firearms training, well why do i pay for it then? give them the best! pretty sad when we have civilians who can shoot better than police, and then you hear of police that fire 2 mags worth of rounds at a bad guy and hit him once or maybe not at all. thats a joke and a slap in the face to all of us tax payers.

also do we non-union employees get due process at our jobs??? NOPE, indiana is one of the worse states in the union when it comes to protecting workers rights, its a fire at will state. i think unions (police unions included) that let people show up to work drunk, break the law, drive drunk, beat up someone, be insubordinate, and STILL KEEP THEIR JOB IS BULL CRAP TOO!!!! unions are bull crap when they protect criminals.

this guy needs fired, not sheltered by his own "family" who may ridicule him but will still protect him even if he had the potential to kill someone innocent! i think we need independant NON-LE 3rd party people to investigate all complaints against cops. when an organization investigates itself you WILL ALWAYS HAVE CORUPTION!!

What does anything you just said here have to do with my point, other than we agree?

This is a training issue, and I'm certainly not going to argue that government wastes our tax money and has tendency to protect itself and it's own.

Personally, I'm not sure there should even be "city police", I find the Sheriff to be the true Constitutional Peace Officer, and sheriff's can have as many deputies as they can afford, which means they could cover a towns needs. And the State police only came into being in the 1930's, and most were originated as body guards for the governors. Again, the job they do could be done by sheriff's if the tax money spent on the local and state police was allocated to them. Doing so would give the taxpayer/citizen more control over their police since sheriff's are elected.

Which brings me back to my point. If you want your police properly trained with weapons, then you need to demand it of your police departments. PD's generally will not change any policy regarding training unless forced to. In the meantime, not training police officers in all aspects of gun handling, gun safety, marksmanship and gun fighting, yet telling them they are, and then nailing them to the wall when they mess up, seems...well...just a little disengenuous, at best.

 

[RyanV]

I have never left a weapon anywhere and forgotten about it. I do however, know a Deputy who left his weapon on his trunk and then got in his squad car, drove a few miles down the road, realized he didn't have his weapon, and then turned back to get it. He will NEVER live it down.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I know ALL patrol police (yes i said all) get crappy firearms training, well why do i pay for it then? give them the best! pretty sad when we have civilians who can shoot better than police, and then you hear of police that fire 2 mags worth of rounds at a bad guy and hit him once or maybe not at all. thats a joke and a slap in the face to all of us tax payers.

Pretty ballsy statement made sitting behind a computer. I have taken most of your posts with a grain of salt, but I take offense to this one. Sure, I'm no billy bad-@$$ Ranger Sergeant, but I'm also no Barney Fife one bullet having cop. I get excellent firearms training at IMPD, and I will put that training up against anyone that wants to challenge it. Call out to the IMPD range staff and ask them if you can challenge me to a friendly competition of who gets a better score on the qualification course, who has more hits in one of the combat courses, whatever. If they say yes we'll arrange the date and time. Heck, you'll even get free ammo for whatever gun you want to shoot with.

I don't understand what your deal is with cops. I haven't been impressed with all of the military personnel I have met in my lifetime, but you don't hear me slamming them every chance I get, especially anonymously on the internet where there are no repercussions.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I get excellent firearms training at IMPD, and I will put that training up against anyone that wants to challenge it. Call out to the IMPD range staff and ask them if you can challenge me to a friendly competition of who gets a better score on the qualification course, who has more hits in one of the combat courses, whatever. If they say yes we'll arrange the date and time. Heck, you'll even get free ammo for whatever gun you want to shoot with.

I want to watch! Seriously! I missed my chance when I was in the military to watch a competition between a Marine sniper and a Navy Seal that were going to have a competition of long guns in the desert, and I would really like to see this one between a LEO and ex-Ranger Sniper.

I'm telling ya, boys... I'll drive to Indy to watch this if you can arrange it.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I want to watch! Seriously! I missed my chance when I was in the military to watch a competition between a Marine sniper and a Navy Seal that were going to have a competition of long guns in the desert, and I would really like to see this one between a LEO and ex-Ranger.

I'm telling ya, boys... I'll drive to Indy to watch this if you can arrange it.

I'm sure E5RANGER375 would demand an independent witness, especially if he happened to lose. You know how all LEOs are cheating, thieving, drunk-driving, dog killers.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I want to watch! Seriously! I missed my chance when I was in the military to watch a competition between a Marine sniper and a Navy Seal that were going to have a competition of long guns in the desert, and I would really like to see this one between a LEO and ex-Ranger.

I'm telling ya, boys... I'll drive to Indy to watch this if you can arrange it.

Let me know when and where; I want to watch this, too, if I'm not on shift that day.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

I'm sure E5RANGER375 would demand an independent witness, especially if he happened to lose. You know how all LEOs are cheating, thieving, drunk-driving, dog killers.

And I'm not independent?!?!?

 

[Glock21]

I'm sure E5RANGER375 would demand an independent witness, especially if he happened to lose. You know how all LEOs are cheating, thieving, drunk-driving, dog killers.

You forgot smelly, ugly and bad tippers.

 

[T-rav]

Do it on a weekend and Im there to watch!

 

[E5RANGER375]

Pretty ballsy statement made sitting behind a computer. I have taken most of your posts with a grain of salt, but I take offense to this one. Sure, I'm no billy bad-@$$ Ranger Sergeant, but I'm also no Barney Fife one bullet having cop. I get excellent firearms training at IMPD, and I will put that training up against anyone that wants to challenge it. Call out to the IMPD range staff and ask them if you can challenge me to a friendly competition of who gets a better score on the qualification course, who has more hits in one of the combat courses, whatever. If they say yes we'll arrange the date and time. Heck, you'll even get free ammo for whatever gun you want to shoot with.

I don't understand what your deal is with cops. I haven't been impressed with all of the military personnel I have met in my lifetime, but you don't hear me slamming them every chance I get, especially anonymously on the internet where there are no repercussions.

Im in. lets set it up.

oh, blue tile spook, that X- Army Ranger Sniper

stein, im not saying that some dont get extra training, especialy if they realize its important, im talking about the minimum requirements. i think those need to be much higher. and my statement you quoted actualy supported giving LEO's more training.

Also i dont think all soldiers in the military should even have weapons. but soldiers dont deffend citizens on American soil either. Police live and work among us, so if they suck at shooting, then i potentialy could die, and i dont like that!

but im deffinately up for friendly, safe competition anyday!! thanks for the challenge. PM me so we can set it up.

Ill trust your Honor. If i lose i lose, but i never go into a competition thinking i will lose. I will bow to you and give a firm handshake if your the better man. i do have a code of Honor.

 

[Blue Tile Spook]

oh, blue tile spook, that X- Army Ranger Sniper

I apologize (really!) and have corrected it in my post above. I strive to get people's job titles correct and I messed this one up.

but im deffinately up for friendly, safe competition anyday!! thanks for the challenge. PM me so we can set it up.

I don't want to turn this into a spectator event for you two, but it is an event that is pretty rare, IMO, and I would like to see two professionals compete. If I can, cool beans. If I can't, then meh.