Trooper Forgets Handgun

[E5RANGER375]

i was just razzin ya about the specifics of the title, although i am proud of that extra tab.

his range his rules. for the record, i dont mind if he and the range masters dont.

and yes this will be a fun and interesting event. he wouldnt have put the challenge forth if he wasnt confident in his own abilities, nor would i have accepted if i wasnt with mine. I like confidence in a competitor. I already respect him for that.

 

[groovatron]

sorry man, i dont believe in second chances with weapons. just my opinion, you can have yours too.

I bet you have cut yourself with a knife before......and I'm sure you still use them

 

[Sheltie]

I think the purpose of all this is that if a citizen with a LTCH had left a gun somewhere accesable to anyone we would lose are LTCH.

I agree. Not only would the citizen loose their license to carry for LIFE they would most likely be charged with criminal recklessness just to make the point stick.

 

[Tactical Dave]

I would like to see that competition...... in all fairness Ranger 99.9% of your post's ARE anti cop's.


The hardest school's in the ARMY............ above Ranger and Sniper........

Just screwing with ya man, many say that it is a kick in the pant's........... being harrased under water for an hour straight would suck....

 

[1032JBT]

I would like to see that competition...... in all fairness Ranger 99.9% of your post's ARE anti cop's.


The hardest school's in the ARMY............ above Ranger and Sniper........

Just screwing with ya man, many say that it is a kick in the pant's........... being harrased under water for an hour straight would suck....

Yes it does suck........I didn't get it for an hour, but have had 3 guys eff'ing with me at the same time for awhile. It was fun..........yet not so much.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

No, it should not be forgotten nor it was ok for him to do this? He should be reprimanded. Yes this was a big screw up and luckily no one got hurt. Believe me, he knows he screwed up. Everyone makes mistakes that could cost someone else their life, i.e. ran a stop sign/light, pulled out in front of someone, drunk driving. But most of the time it doesn't end up that way. There's always those people that believe they never make mistakes and therefore believe they are able to past judgment on others, especially if the person that made the mistake is a police officer.

I make mistakes everyday. However, I think there is no excuse leo or not for leaving their gun somewhere. In the service, if we would have done such a thing. Well lets say I do not want to even imagine. One time after qualifying, one of my shipmates took off in his own vehicle with one of our stations 92's. Well our weapons petty officer missed it, when inventorying everything before we left the range. Get back to the station, and then it's discoverd there is a pistol unacounted for. Holly bat ****, did our Chief go off. I do not know what happend to either one of them. No matter where you are, you need to always know where your weapon is at all times. Also police officers are held to a higher standard, or should be if not. Right or wrong the public looks to them to serve, and protect. My

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I have sent an email to the Lt in charge of the range and I am awaiting permission to have the competition there. If he says no, we will have to find another venue.

 

[Glock21]

I make mistakes everyday. However, I think there is no excuse leo or not for leaving their gun somewhere. In the service, if we would have done such a thing. Well lets say I do not want to even imagine. One time after qualifying, one of my shipmates took off in his own vehicle with one of our stations 92's. Well our weapons petty officer missed it, when inventorying everything before we left the range. Get back to the station, and then it's discoverd there is a pistol unacounted for. Holly bat ****, did our Chief go off. I do not know what happend to either one of them. No matter where you are, you need to always know where your weapon is at all times. Also police officers are held to a higher standard, or should be if not. Right or wrong the public looks to them to serve, and protect. My

I don't disagree even a little bit.

The fact is, though, applying a higher standard of care to police, while justifed, does not have the training to back it up in most cases. Doctors, in order to be a doctor, have tests and exams they pass to gain that title, and why they are expected to know what they are doing. Those tests and exams are meant to be hard and meant to weed out those who can't do the job. Police, while having tests and exams, don't have what I would consider any kind of serious firearms training or firearms testing, certainly not at a level which will wash out those who may be dangerous in their gun handling or irresponsible with their weapons.

Again, if we (the public) expect a higher standard of care, then we should demand the training and testing be relevent to the standard we expect.

And on a side note, I bet theose in your story got their rears handed to them, but I doubt any of them were "fired" from the Navy over it.

 

[E5RANGER375]

I have sent an email to the Lt in charge of the range and I am awaiting permission to have the competition there. If he says no, we will have to find another venue.

ok thanks. im sure we wont have a problem finding one.

 

[Ramen]

So did the employee have his LTCH?

If not he should be charged with carrying a handgun without a license.

Also he should face disciplinary action from Lowe's for going against employee policy.

 

[Glock21]

So did the employee have his LTCH?

If not he should be charged with carrying a handgun without a license.

Also he should face disciplinary action from Lowe's for going against employee policy.

I'm sure the Doctrine of Competing Harms would apply should anyone be dumb enough to charge him.

 

[T-rav]

Who in for throwin in a few bucks to have a trophy made

 

[LawDog76]

So did the employee have his LTCH?

If not he should be charged with carrying a handgun without a license.

Also he should face disciplinary action from Lowe's for going against employee policy.

Far as the law to charge him, the employee was in a fixed place of business. So no law was broken.

ic 35-47-2
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession

Lowes taking disciplinary action? Yeah right... If a kid would of found it and shot himself, look at the law suit Lowes would of had against them. The manager used his better judgement in the company's intrest.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Police, while having tests and exams, don't have what I would consider any kind of serious firearms training or firearms testing, certainly not at a level which will wash out those who may be dangerous in their gun handling or irresponsible with their weapons.

Another blanket statement by someone that most likely doesn't have any experience with what training police officers receive. I sure am glad that some people on INGO are so perfect that they have never made any kind of mistake in their life, even a simple one, and had to live down the ridicule of a bunch of internet know-it-alls.

 

[LawDog76]

Another blanket statement by someone that most likely doesn't have any experience with what training police officers receive. I sure am glad that some people on INGO are so perfect that they have never made any kind of mistake in their life, even a simple one, and had to live down the ridicule of a bunch of internet know-it-alls.

Not to sure about Indiana's Firearms training for Police Officer but when I went through the Academy in Ohio, Firearms training started in Jan and went two weeks into May. Classes were Mon - Thur, 6pm - 10pm to allow for daylight and low level light training. We also went one weekend a month 8am - 5pm.

Now how many hours of FIREARMS training are there in Military Basic Training? Just curious.

 

[j706]

Another blanket statement by someone that most likely doesn't have any experience with what training police officers receive. I sure am glad that some people on INGO are so perfect that they have never made any kind of mistake in their life, even a simple one, and had to live down the ridicule of a bunch of internet know-it-alls.

And not to mention that many agency's send their people to extra firearms training. I have been lucky enough to have been sent to some of the best training available anywhere,actually numerous times including out of state with airfare,car rental and per diam. Many agency's are serious about training.

 

[MinuteMan47]

 

[bw210]

After reading the last 14 pages and some thought, I think it should go down like this:

Forget about him being a cop - he was off-duty and in plain clothes. Discard the fact he should and does have a higher responsibility for his actions being LEO. Forget all the posts about being imperfect, or making mistakes or needs to fired or disciplinary actions needed.

View him and treat he as the system would to to anyone of us. Would criminal recklessness charges follow? If so than proceed. Would we loose our LTCH? Yes? - Then he no longer can hold any position mandating a carry sidearm (or hold LEO position at all?). Would we face anything else? Then he should have to also.

We all make mistakes and serious mistakes have serious consequences. Punishment should be consistent

 

[ihateiraq]

Now how many hours of FIREARMS training are there in Military Basic Training? Just curious.

army basic training offered a few weeks or brm. infantry school had more. but the vast majority of my training came after i got to my unit. my time working with different weapon systems was measured in days at that point.

lose a weapon in the military and youre going to get an article 15. no two ways about it. this guy should get the equivalent. he doesnt need to be fired, but a stout reprimand is in order.

 

[Glock21]

Another blanket statement by someone that most likely doesn't have any experience with what training police officers receive. I sure am glad that some people on INGO are so perfect that they have never made any kind of mistake in their life, even a simple one, and had to live down the ridicule of a bunch of internet know-it-alls.

Actually, I'm a Staff Instructor with John Farnam, as well as a member of both the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association and the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors.

I'm very familiar with what the average academy qualification is, and I've helped many a police recruit pass such tests after the academy instructors failed to do so.

And if you will take a moment to review my post, you will notice that my critique isn't about marksmanship training, it's about gun handling and safety - two things the averange police qualification test does not highlight. They also rarely encorporate any kind of reload under stress, movement, stoppage reduction, hitting a moving target or decision making. The average qualification test is about poking cute holes in paper and applying an arbitrary "score" in relation to what the creator of the B28 target decided was a good place to shoot someone. And I seriously doubt there are many police recruits who were ever schooled about how to load and unload a revolver, how to go to the bathroom with a gun, or proper handling in general. Most I encounter consistently point their own muzzles at their support hand on the draw and when they reholster - something that is again an indicator of seriously poor training.


That being said, there are some departments out there that actually do a pretty good job of getting their officers propper training (Boone County, Olympia Fields, IL, Shipshewanna, and some others), but even that is an indication that the academy didn't really make all that much of an effort.

Lastly, I think I've been pretty clear that I'm not for hanging this officer out to dry for his mistake, and I would certainly never claim to have lead a mistake-free life, myself.

Hope that helps put some perspective on my statements and I apologize if I have in any way confused you with any of my posts.