Tent City in Bloomington residential neighborhood disturbing

[melensdad]

Interesting in this thread to see people throwing their own purported values out the window.

We have some of the same people who were supporting an Absolute Property Right of employers in the HB1065 debate - it's their property, they can do whatever they want - now all the sudden clamoring about the rights of neighbors not to be disturbed by the sight of homeless people.

On the other side, we have liberals who believe it mandatory to confiscate money from "the rich" because they have an absolute obligation to take care of the poor and downtrodden, turn around and say that they were talking of course about other rich people; and specifically not those whose property adjoins our Country Club.

It is always interesting to see just how deeply held people's "values" are. In this case, it appears, to be about the depth of one layer of paint.

And on the 3rd hand are the consistent libertarians like myself who seem to be, to everyone's surprise, consistent in thought

So when Dr. Taylor's neighbor invites over a friend who gets mean when he drinks, is the neighor going to apologize to Dr. Taylor? Or ask his permission who he can invite to his house?

Can the neighbor then be accused of moral wrong-doing and safety violations?

You certainly get more respect in this conversation because you have to live near it, but I still think everyone is going overboard here. We are theorizing, you are dealing with it. If I were in your shoes, I believe I'd feel differently. But, I can't be sure.

And while I admire Dr Taylor for living his convictions, I am glad that I am not his neighbor.

In fact it is exactly because of people like him that I specifically chose to live in an area with an HOA. When the cities and counties fail, there are more direct approaches to issues that can be resolved with an HOA. And funny again with the double standards but it strikes me that some of the folks here have (in other threads) talked about mutual support groups and other such things but at the same time complain about an HOA. I'm not really sure how those two things are all that different. If you band together with like minded people to live a certain lifestyle in a certain way, with certain things expected of you, then is that not just an HOA, even if you call it a Mutual Support Group?

Yup, I'll take my 155 acre neighborhood with 30 homes and an HOA that would prevent this from happening next door to me. I'll also be consistent and say that I'm in favor of Dr Taylor doing it in his yard, on his property, because that is his right to do it. And using consistent libertarian logic, both are reasonable. You see being a libertarian I want my government to be as local as possible and while I value my freedoms I also value my property values! My HOA provides a great balance, perhaps some others don't, but it was my choice. I suspect that Dr Taylor's neighbors wish they had the protection of an HOA right now.

 

[Indy317]

Making my uptight neighbors as uncomfortable as possible is my life.

I think I need to mow - I'll do it right at daybreak.

I think I need to OC my AK-47, I think I will do it when you try to sell your home and I see prospective buyers pulling up.

This guy is making the entire neighborhood look bad, but _he_ doesn't care because _he_ supports what is going on. So, the other neighbors need to make this guy mad by doing legal, but awful things. They could start flying Nazi flags, rebel flags, flip him off every time they drive by him, paint a picture of a "rocket" (that just so happens to look like a penis) on the side of their home, start erecting barbwire fencing complete with gawdy "No Trespassing" signs, start your own landfill in your front yard, start using your front yard as the toilet ("Ugh sorry, sewer/septic is backed up),etc.. Then when _he_ starts to complain, they can tell him to go and pound sand.

You see, there is plenty folks can do to eventually make a neighbor upset. Just because you think something is right doesn't mean you should do it.

 

[Fletch]

Yup, I'll take my 155 acre neighborhood with 30 homes and an HOA that would prevent this from happening next door to me. I'll also be consistent and say that I'm in favor of Dr Taylor doing it in his yard, on his property, because that is his right to do it. And using consistent libertarian logic, both are reasonable. You see being a libertarian I want my government to be as local as possible and while I value my freedoms I also value my property values! My HOA provides a great balance, perhaps some others don't, but it was my choice. I suspect that Dr Taylor's neighbors wish they had the protection of an HOA right now.

Just to be clear, I don't begrudge anyone their decision to live under an HOA. I don't believe HOA's should be illegal, nor do I believe that government should interfere when they enforce the terms of the contract that their residents have signed. My hatred of the concept is entirely personal: I refuse to live in one. I don't believe it's anti-libertarian for you to want one, I just don't understand or share or empathize with your desire to have one. The concept is alien to me, but more power to you if you can make it work.

 

[Indy317]

They have to live somewhere. He is attempting to give them a peaceful night's sleep in a secure area away from crime. That sounds like help to me. If I was homeless I'd hope someone would do the same for me until I got my head screwed on straight and my life back together.

His goal is a good one, but as someone who has had dealings with a variety of homeless, whatever his ultimate goal is, it will fail. I would estimate that the vast majority of homeless are such by their own doing. They couldn't follow rules, whatever they maybe, so they lost roof after roof they at one time had over their head. Most folks, especially relatives, are more than willing to help out someone, but there is usually a give and take, and with a lot of these types, they just want to take, take, and take some more. Eventually they run out of friends and family to use, then they end up in the shelters. Those who behave live the shelter lifestyle. Those who don't, live under bridges, in alleyways, and now, in this guy's backyard. Most aren't the kind of people you want around. If I were in this neighborhood, I would be organizing security walks with like minded neighbors. I might even go so far as to say make it an OC walk, even wearing masks. The masks would be to protect people's ID, so those who live in the tents won't target certain homes for burglary. I would also start building the biggest privacy fence I could afford, even if I had to use rusted car hoods and doors. I would be stringing up barb and razor wire as well, with the proper amount of "NO TRESPASSING!" and "DANGER!" signs. Some of the people living in those tents won't be good people, and I would take whatever steps I can within the law to protect me and mine.

 

[mrmarky]

Where do they all use the bathroom? Hmmmm????

 

[3gunshooter]

It seems he got tired of the city government dragging their feet and took matters into his own hands. I think if the people that had means to do things like this our country would be better off.

 

[LEaSH]

When I was visiting some friends in my early 20's they had brought a street person up stairs to stay the night so he wouldn't freeze to death. I thought they were insane or trying to impress me or both.

Turns out the guy was indeed mentally off but pretty much harmless.
Also learned that he was a viet nam vet, was married after he served, had a successful business at one time and his accountant and wife took off together and cleaned him out of nearly every dime.
Then came the booze and drugs that put him out of societal standards. That all could have been bs as far all I know, it also sounds like a too common scenario for a couple guys' dads that I do know that lives have gone similar to that.

He said he got money every month from the VA and promised to by some booze next time he got his money.

Now I know the weather isn't harsh like it was that michigan winter, but I sure learned a bit that night. We all could've woken up to our heads being sawed off or something, I guess my friends really didn't feel threaghtened by him from talking to him for many months in passing.

Maybe getting to know someone before inviting them in is something the guy in bloomington was sure to do. His neighbors obviously couldn't get their heads around the idea. Why bother trying to reach them if they are unreachable? It's as if they know more than him what's right and not right. There's no shortage of that around here either.

 

[antsi]

He is helping a problem NOT solving one. He is giving people an avenue to continue their drug use and lack of responsibilities. I would be very surprised if any of these people ever take advantage of the help that they are being offered.

I do think there is a difference between compassion and enabling. If I personally were running a shelter, I do believe I would have some expectations, limits, and boundaries to ensure the people I was helping were working positively toward improving their lot in life.

But 99% of homeless people WANT to be. They choose to live that way. Usually because of addiction. They have no intention of ever getting thier lives together and sobering up. They prefer to let others deal with the problems of feeding and housing them.

There's more to this story, too. Most homeless addicts have severe mental disease, and they're using alcohol or other substances to self-medicate. Back in the old days, they would have been institutionalized but in misguided compassion we emptied the long term mental hospitals and now a lot of them live on the streets. Some of these folks simply do not have the mental capacity to manage their own lives.

That said, they can still do relatively better or worse, and with the right support their own actions can make a difference. So, for example, if I were running some kind of shelter or homeless support project, I would probably make some rules like, if you want to stay here you have to stay on your meds (ie, prescribed meds, not street drugs).

Again to be fair, though, I don't see the major criticism on this board being: "This guy is running his program wrong. He needs to set some boundaries and consequences that will really help these folks, rather than simply enabling them to continue a self destructive lifestyle." If that's what the criticisms were, I'd say those folks might have a point. In fact there is strong Biblical support for this kind of support. The New Life Ministries are all about this approach.

That's not really the nature of most of the criticism I am seeing here, though.

What I'm seeing is more along the lines of "their problems are their own fault, so we're exempt from charity and service toward them." It is more difficult to find Bibilical support for this line of thinking.

 

[JetGirl]

His land, his business. And I for one think he's doing a great thing.

He has a cause, and he's fighting for it. Far more than you can claim.

Yup. We always say that instead of people trying to get the government to help, instead of taking money from us to give to others, that they do so themselves if they feel so strongly about it.

Well, that's what this guy is doing, on his dime and on his land.

Here is a citizen stepping up on his own, putting his money where his mouth is and doing what he thinks is right. Kudos to him!!!

So many people give lip service to limited government and the sanctity of private property until someone does something that annoys them, at which point private property isn't so inviolate.

Matthew 25:40
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

Anyone who tries ti fight this guy without offering a viable solution deserves the current level of Big Government we have.

Only Fletch was brave enough to say it

ALL of these ^.

If you supporters think it is such a great deed to allow the homeless to take up refuge in a residential backyard, then I suspect you will soon be calling the local churches and meal halls to tell them you have a place a residency for anyone who might not have a place to stay.

Well it just so happens...

A few years ago, I invited a stranger to come live with us because he was about to lose everything due to medical bills. I didn't make him stay in a tent, I put him up in one of our spare bedrooms. He lived with us for about a year and 3 months while he got his financial mess straightened out, and yes, it was a giant pain in the ass having someone with different standards of cleanliness, hygiene, and diet living in my house. But he and I are now tight friends, he's on his own again, and you know that saying about friends you call to move a couch vs. friends you call to move a body? He's the latter kind.

Sure, he wasn't a filthy bum or homeless crack addict. I don't know any, and perhaps that's something to be ashamed of. But he was a person who needed help that I was equipped to give, and I would do it all over again.

I'm so glad you told this story, because I WANTED to, but knew it wasn't my place!
Good guy. You.

 

[chickenman]

The good that this gentlemen is doing by letting these homeless people stay there. The bad out ways the good. My wife and I drove past this place this afternoon. What we witness was 4 males and a women standing in his garage smoking. (As anyone price a pack of smokes lately? If they have a pack of smokes, where are they getting the money?) They were in his garage because of rain. I saw three tents sit up in back yard. This gentlemen has no fence in his back yard but however all of his neighbors do. From the look of the fences (chain link and wooden) they have been up for a long time. Making me think his neighbors what to have a private life.

Some of you on here are saying that its his propety and that his choice. Thats fine. The HB1065 bill I did not support it and I feel that the state over step the line and took away the propety rights for the owner. But however in this case. This gentlemen is only making trouble. We dont know all of the details to this story and how many people come and go. To the sex offenders thing. In indiana offender must list address. If one of these folks. Is a sex offender, then that nice, there is no way checking this. who is and who isn't. Because people come and go as they will. oh by the way there is a middle school about a 1/4 mile away. Its is true that we may not know are neighbors well enough to know how they live. But we do know are neighbors. They don"t live in tents.

I'm a LTCH holder and I do belive in carry. People who carry are not "evil" right? I also belive in keeping an eye out for my neighbors. If one of my neighbors choose do this. (because we all know how the people in bloomington jumps on banwagons.) I will make sure those folks will have a quite and dark night. I would also make sure who was coming and going in my house. House guest or camper. Not a perfect stanger of the streets. I wouldn't want for that person not to know me and that person to rely on my courge and compassion. So he or she could use my restroom.

 

[CarmelHP]

On the other side, we have liberals who believe it mandatory to confiscate money from "the rich" because they have an absolute obligation to take care of the poor and downtrodden, turn around and say that they were talking of course about other rich people; and specifically not those whose property adjoins our Country Club.

Before a class warfare jihad is launched, the area around BCC is an older, less well-off, lower middle to middle class type neighborhood. Not awful, but not Hyde Park or one of the tonier areas. Like Dr. Taylor and his guests, the neighbors are just people trying to live their lives too.

 

[chickenman]

Before a class warfare jihad is launched, the area around BCC is an older, less well-off, lower middle to middle class type neighborhood. Not awful, but not Hyde Park or one of the tonier areas. Like Dr. Taylor and his guests, the neighbors are just people trying to live their lives too.

Dr. Taylor's neighbors own or rent they propety. Dr. Taylor's guest are just that. Guests.
If Dr. taylor and help from the neighbors would or could monter the people coming and going. I wonder if that would help. But thats alot work to get started and all that could come from that is more homeless people coming in to the neighborhood.
Behind the locally Ford dealership. There is already a homeless campsite that the homeless folk took over. I wonder if the propety owner is trying to clean up this area? I'm just trying ask where did these people come from that is at Dr. Taylor house. yes i did watch the video at the begening of this thread. Still have alot of unanswer question.

 

[Archaic_Entity]

I'd enjoy giving Fletch another rep for his statements, but I have to spread it around a bit... so I'll just comment on some things instead.

First:

And funny again with the double standards but it strikes me that some of the folks here have (in other threads) talked about mutual support groups and other such things but at the same time complain about an HOA. I'm not really sure how those two things are all that different. If you band together with like minded people to live a certain lifestyle in a certain way, with certain things expected of you, then is that not just an HOA, even if you call it a Mutual Support Group?

I think it's important to notate that the difference between an HOA and an MSG is the fact that I agree with people in my MSG. It's founded around a core set of beliefs that I have, with like-minded individuals. You have no guarantee of that with any HOA's. I'm not saying that I think you're unintelligent or slandering your choice for living in an HOA but, like Fletch, I disagree with them.

Some of you feel this ok, how about i found some of you neighbors and ask them to move in "homeless people" to your neighborhoods. As far as someone moving a person in to your house. I feel that your damm luckly something did't happen.

I'll agree with Annie and Fletch on this one. I'm glad that not everyone has your sense of compassion. I became really good friends with a man that a friend of mine invited to live with him while on a missions trip to Nashville. This guy was just a homeless 16 year old that needed a helping hand. They took him in and he shaped up rather decently. He disappeared and hasn't talked to any of us in a long while, but without the compassion of good people he never would have had the friends he did for the time he did.

But 99% of homeless people WANT to be. They choose to live that way. Usually because of addiction. They have no intention of ever getting thier lives together and sobering up. They prefer to let others deal with the problems of feeding and housing them.

Back up that stat with something real. I understand that it's possibly hyperbolic, but it's ridiculous nonetheless. Given the current state of the economy, I think it's safe to say that a good number of people are just down on their luck and they need help. I've seen a good new number of faces holding up signs on street corners lately that haven't been around for the past couple of years. I think it's safe to say that more people are falling on extremely tough times.

Also, having volunteered in soup kitchens, like someone else on here, I can say that a lot of people aren't like that. A lot of them do have mental issues that need treatment, but they don't know they have these issues. A lot of people need help sobering up, and their current environments don't help in the least.

Sure, the concerns about sex offenders and the theft of personal property is real, but there are people living in your neighborhood right now who are sex offenders and thieves. This is a good thing the man is doing, though I wouldn't like it near me, I would support his efforts.

Exactly this, and I think more folks have pointed it out as well. There's no guarantee that the people you live near are morally any better than the homeless. They just appear better than the homeless. This is a necessary distinction. I live in an apartment complex, and most of the tenants seem like good enough folks. However, at least one apartment is full of drug-dealers. And that's just my building. I have no idea what the other buildings hold. To be honest, I know nothing substantial about most of the other units in my building either.

Don't let the looks of the leper determine his worth as a person.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Bump this for the monday crowd. I think this thing has some legs.

 

[360]

Bump this for the monday crowd. I think this thing has some legs.

I think you broke them.

 

[oldfb]

ALL of these ^.

Well it just so happens...

I'm so glad you told this story, because I WANTED to, but knew it wasn't my place!
Good guy. You.

Bump this for the monday crowd. I think this thing has some legs.

Actually this post has probably run its course since the people either think the old timer is a simpering moron who has opened himself up to liability and personal risks of assault or homicide.

Or those of us who support in theory his attempts to effect change in the absence of hope.

Most rail against welfare but then chime in saying these homeless should be in shelters but must not be able to follow the rules. Bull hoowie to that. Most shelters are underfunded and the media end up fostering that stereotype. We cannot know how many have given up out of self preservation. Better to lower expectations than go truly crazy.

We have to fund programs that lend a hand up from the canvas not just a hand out.

Otherwise we just shuffle them from corner to corner. Imagine being down and no matter where you turn you are shunned or ignored and feared. How quickly will you start to become the stereotype? Without multiple avenues for helping the various levels of homeless (mental, abuse, financial etc.) we will always have this problem in our society. Once we have helped all that truly want help or those who can't function alone, we can accurately count those that just don't care or want a handout and ship them off to magic island or california to deal with.

These problems aren't going to solve themselves and ignoring them will only cause them to grow in severity.

So beyond gassing them or feeding them to the lions for entertainment what are some other solutions?

Like it or not we as a society have an obligation to ourselves to ensure our streets are safe so regardless of our oppinions on welfare we either deal with the problem or don't and live with the results by having our big government step in and do it for us. We see how well that works out, right?

At least this old man is trying to raise awareness and get others involved regardless of the public indifference to the problem.

Fight to solve the real problem which is not a tent city. IMHO

 

[Goosepond Monster]

That is kinda where my head is at on this one.

I have no problem with proper homeless shelters helping those who need a hand up and not a hand out. But resorting to a tent city in a neighborhood is not really good for anyone involved. Sure, it may be marginally better than being a vagrant and living on a park bench, but does nothing to address the other needs of sanitation, etc.

That is, unless he's opening his home to them for that part too...

He is allowing them to use the restroom in his home.

Guys, people can complain till they are blue in the face, it's a Monro County issue, not the City of Bloomington's issue with this man having the tent city.

VVVVVVVVVV


Personally I'd have a real problem in more ways than one with this if it was my neighborhood.

It is indeed a City of Bloomington issue. The area in question is in the AIFA (area intended for annexation) and therefore falls under the City's Planning jurisdiction.

Also, a good majority of the homeless population are that way because they enjoy the lifestyle. I know that there are some folks that are on hard times, but most of the homeless people in Bton are the same ones that I saw bumming on the streets when I was in high school and that was over ten years ago. If these are the folks that have fallen on hard times then I see it as being somewhat commendable, but I have a feeling these are the folks who enjoy the lifestyle and are only being enabled by this gentleman.

There are numerous shelters in town, but these people don't want to sober up so that they are allowed to seek refuge in the shelters.

 

[Goosepond Monster]

It looks like this is starting to get some national attention...

CBS News-Chicago is coming to Bloomington around 3 p.m. today to film a segment on Hal Taylor’s backyard tent city for the homeless. The crew expects to be here until around 11 p.m., and hopes to interview several of the homeless people spending their nights in Taylor’s tents.

Source.

 

[hornadylnl]

I just watched the video. I wonder how long it will be before one of the guests offers to mow his yard.

 

[360]

My buddy that lives there says he thinks they have found some violations. I haven't heard back from him tonight about it.