Let it fly.....SWAT cleared.

[UncleMike]

No disrespect, but you can't compare what happens in a warzone against enemy combatants to what the police/SWAT teams (civilians) do to other civilians. Apples and oranges, and a very telling look at the mentality of many police officers. If you want to play soldier and play with the dangerous toys, join the military. Keep that crap off our streets, which is a direct violation of Posse Comitatus.

No it's not!!
It only is a violation if troops of The United States Military are used in Civil Police actions.

Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[PointFiveO]

Perhaps my assumption was incorrect, but just because they don't shut me down doesn't mean pure red rep doesn't silence my opinion in effect. Whatever, if I was wrong then I'll let it drop. I guess perhaps I did jump the gun a bit assuming you were the problem and probably shouldn't have publicly accused you of it.

 

[FCSD 23-18]

If it's that offensive I'll be banned. You may be a cop but this is the internet and your jurisdiction ends at the click of a mouse.

Now, back to our debate. I know the media exaggerates, so lets say he really is only shot 20 times, do you really not call that excessive? Are you claiming that 71 shots fired is not putting any innocent people in that remote area in harms way?

I could care less about the evidence that got the warrant. I hold the judge responsible for signing the no-knock warrant with little to no evidence to go on, but I still blame the officers for endangering his kid and wife, not letting the paramedics in, and changing their story to benefit themselves.

You may disagree but I don't really care what you think because you will always defend the guy in blue, even if it is at the cost of a war veteran just as you claim to be.

1. It was not a no nock warrant it was a knock and announce as seen in the video I posted.

2. The reason that the medics were not allowed in was because the wife barricaded herself in one of the rooms and wouldn't come out. Not knowing if she was armed or not of course they wouldn't allow the medics in until the scene was secure. This is standard operating procedure on any team or scene.

3. I maybe wrong on the round count, doesn't change the fact that he is dead.

4. I am a combat vet but more importantly I realize that in every uniform I have ever worn there is good and bad. Unfortunately this vet paid for his mistake with his life.

5. I can guarantee you that if this shooting would have taken place in some inner city slum under the same circumstances only the victim was not a vet but a known gang banger there would be no debate on round count or anything else it would be called a good shoot.

6. I'm still waiting on you to concede to the fact you were wrong about the video.

 

[thompal]

I agree COMPLETELY with the part above. The best thing to do would have been to pick him up on his way to/from work.

The whole raid was unnecessary...cops playing commando with tragic outcomes.

Which highlights one of the major problems with the militarization of the police. Whenever there is a task to perform, the mindset becomes one where the 'go-to' solution more closely resembles a military one rather than a law enforcement one. It's the difference between "enforce order" rather than "protect and serve."

 

[PointFiveO]

As for this guy you think I am, I am not. I have been a casual lurker at Ingo since 2008 and just recently decided to make a name. If I am someone who was banned it will be a quick matter of an OP checking my IP and seeing that I have never been a regular poster here before.

Patriot, I take responsibility where it is due. However defending myself when I am insulted is hardly acting out of order.

 

[FCSD 23-18]

On the contrary. That is the first thing he should have done: plenty of people have impersonated cops in an effort to make their home invasions easier (Toledo man charged with home invasion, impersonating cop : News : ToledoontheMove.com) (Police: Home invasion suspects impersonate officers | KBOI 2 - Boise News, Weather, Sports and Breaking News | Boise, Idaho | News). The cops should have approached the residence and issued the warrant and showed their identification if they insisted on arresting him in his home. Random dudes in black uniforms with the word SWAT stenciled in it are not necessarily police officers, especially to those who (ironically) trust the police to not act like thugs by breaking into their houses without any reasonable attempt at forcing a willing surrender.

Really, this is how your brain works?

 

[thompal]

Cleared of wrong-doing? As far as I'm concerned, there is too much of a conflict of interest for their findings to be valid.

As we can see from history over the past 30 years, any time the government investigates itself, it always finds itself innocent.

Therefore, this case presents no conflict.

 

[PatriotPride]

No it's not!!
It only is a violation if troops of The United States Military are used in Civil Police actions.

Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My mistake. Giving a bunch of military-wannabe cops military weaponry, training in military tactics, training BY the Federal government AND the military in MANY cases doesn't toe the line of Constitutionality at all. However you look at it, the practice of allowing CIVILIANS to behave as if they are the military with LITTLE TO NO repercussions for their actions is RIDICULOUS, and needs to end now.

If you want to play soldier, join the military. I don't need a SWAT team that can barely tie their own shoes coming into my home by mistake and murdering me.

 

[E5RANGER375]

No it's not!!
It only is a violation if troops of The United States Military are used in Civil Police actions.

Posse Comitatus Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

change the patches and boom, whats the difference? besides the skill level? certain police teams are paramilitary units if ive ever seen one. they intentionaly skirt the law by claiming to be police when by their actions and looks its clear they think they are the military and the guardians of freedom,

 

[PatriotPride]

As for this guy you think I am, I am not. I have been a casual lurker at Ingo since 2008 and just recently decided to make a name. If I am someone who was banned it will be a quick matter of an OP checking my IP and seeing that I have never been a regular poster here before.

Patriot, I take responsibility where it is due. However defending myself when I am insulted is hardly acting out of order.

And I poop gold dust and fart rainbows.

 

[E5RANGER375]

This has got to be my new sig!

if I had a quarter every time someone told me that on here. id probly be able to buy breakfast at mcdonalds

 

[PatriotPride]

change the patches and boom, whats the difference? besides the skill level?

Precisely. "Oh, but, they're just TRAINED by the government and military and use military weapons (poorly, I might add). Their uniform says SWAT not ARMY"

 

[thompal]

Eventually they'll break into the wrong person's home...and that person will take out a few of the commandos. This is what it will take for the tactics to be re-thunk, sadly.

Sadly, I seriously think you are completely wrong. If enough militarized cops get killed on these raids, the government will point to it as justification for the raids, because the targets of the assaults are "obviously dangerous individuals who think nothing of taking a police officer's life."

I think what it will take is for a series of assaults where the victims are groups of teenage girls during a slumber party, 8 year olds at a birthday party, and a flock of nuns having a prayer session.

 

[E5RANGER375]

And I poop gold dust and fart rainbows.

next time your at my house I will have a special bucket just for you to do number two

 

[ckcollins2003]

1. It was not a no nock warrant it was a knock and announce as seen in the video I posted.

2. The reason that the medics were not allowed in was because the wife barricaded herself in one of the rooms and wouldn't come out. Not knowing if she was armed or not of course they wouldn't allow the medics in until the scene was secure. This is standard operating procedure on any team or scene.

Really? It took an hour for them to clear someone out of a bedroom? They've already shot the man of the house. The wife called 911 and told them what was going on. Shouldn't they have gotten the call? Or how about when the paramedics had shown up in 2 minutes? Obviously another slack in communication within the team, like when the Marine was already dead and rounds kept going at him.

3. I maybe wrong on the round count, doesn't change the fact that he is dead.

4. I am a combat vet but more importantly I realize that in every uniform I have ever worn there is good and bad. Unfortunately this vet paid for his mistake with his life.

Yeah, good and bad in both. I agree, but what was this mans mistake? After everything was said and done the only mistake he made was trying to defend his family... no drugs, which is what the warrant was for.

5. I can guarantee you that if this shooting would have taken place in some inner city slum under the same circumstances only the victim was not a vet but a known gang banger there would be no debate on round count or anything else it would be called a good shoot.

And as a vet myself I'd still have to say that 71 rounds puts innocent people in danger. However if no drugs had come up in that situation just as this one, I'd say they screwed up yet again.

6. I'm still waiting on you to concede to the fact you were wrong about the video.

And I'm still waiting on you to concede to the fact that 71 shots is excessive and not allowing him to have medical treatment is not only morally wrong but completely Unconstitutional. So you'd better keep waiting because until you admit that they were at least somewhat in the wrong I'm not watching the video for a 5th time.

And since you're a cop I guess we'll just take this one to the graves with us.

There you go, answered them all

 

[PatriotPride]

if I had a quarter every time someone told me that on here. id probly be able to buy breakfast at mcdonalds

McDonalds? I'm thinking a Brazilian Steakhouse or something along those lines

 

[E5RANGER375]

Sadly, I seriously think you are completely wrong. If enough militarized cops get killed on these raids, the government will point to it as justification for the raids, because the targets of the assaults are "obviously dangerous individuals who think nothing of taking a police officer's life."

I think what it will take is for a series of assaults where the victims are groups of teenage girls during a slumber party, 8 year olds at a birthday party, and a flock of nuns having a prayer session.

it will only be a matter of time im sure. cops during katrina had no problem ILLEGALLY confiscating guns, but how many cops a day proclaim THEY would never do it if it happened here? actions speak louder than words. and so far, we have a lot of bad actions more and more often lately. how many cops from indiana couldnt keep it in their pants at the chance to go get some gun play after katrina? (but im sure they just wanted to help out of the kindness of their hearts) (some yes, but most, NO) the police state is on its way.

 

[PatriotPride]

The usual select few of the INGO tin foil hat group working overtime on this. Sheeezzzz!! These select few are quite amusing to me with all their silliness.

I praise God that I am not in your jurisdiction and you have absolutely no chance of having authority over me. Your attitude is a major concern.

 

[RockofStrength]

Really, this is how your brain works?

If you believe me wrong, make your point. Making comments regarding the functioning of my brain is hardly the way to convince me or anyone else. I am far from a cop-hating nutjob: I respect those who do their job which is to defend my rights and the rights of other citizens and to uphold the Constitution. These men did neither, and I explained my reasoning why I see it that way.

Yelling "Police! We have a warrant!" is not a sufficient reason to prepare to not defend myself and let in many people who are both heavily armed and impossible to identify due to their bulky, dark-colored and intimidating clothing. Again, my fear is not unfounded as you can see by the links I provided before. He should have done exactly what he did: prepare to defend himself, but wait to identify his targets before opening up. Once he had seen proof that they were police and that they did indeed have a warrant, he most certainly should have dropped his weapon and gone peacefully. But not before.

I am willing to have someone prove me wrong, and to admit that wrong. I will not, however, admit that I was wrong based on a comment lacking any manner of logic or reasoning and which was intended merely to make me appear foolish without the need for those wonderful facts that make an argument actually worthwhile. I have seen other posts from you that were intelligent and I thus deduce that you are capable of giving me a well thought out response. I ask that you give me the respect I gave you and any other responder when I made my own intelligent, well thought out response.

 

[stormryder]

I am trying to get past the 31%(22 hits out of 71 rounds) hit rate for these so called highly trained officers.
Plus if they have shields and body armor, I personnally would have waited to see if he was raising or lowering his weapon before firing, not to mention bellowing "Police, Drop Your Weapon" continuously as I entered the building per training.
At least that was how I was cross trained as an MP.