Is INGO creating a registry?

[Bassat]

This isn't how security works. Just because there are other leaks, doesn't mean you shouldn't plug this one. It's an onion, you need to have as many layers as possible.

We have a difference of opinion. To my eye, there is absolutely no point plugging security holes while one is publicly streaming all the information that is 'supposedly' desirable to keep private. It seems quite silly to post private information on a highway billboard, the expect people not to look at it. Nearly every interaction everyone has with anyone these days is subject to snooping. There is absolutely no way to do anything in public and not have it visible others; that is the definition of public. It seems the hard part for most folks to believe here is that INGO is a public space. Do it here, it is archived FOREVER, just like every other piece of information on the internet.

 

[Bassat]

But let's go a step and further document it by linking the deal thread in the feedback....

And that IS my question. What does it matter? Documenting something that is ALREADY PUBLIC is NOT protecting anything. It is by definition: REDUNDANT. I've sold 3 or 4 guns through INGO ads. If I posted the buyer USERIDs, make, model, and serial number, and price paid, of those guns right here in this thread, I have posted NOTHING that is not searchable, obtainable information already. Again, the illusion of privacy is a false sense of security. Privacy no longer exists.

 

[firecadet613]

And that IS my question. What does it matter? Documenting something that is ALREADY PUBLIC is NOT protecting anything. It is by definition: REDUNDANT. I've sold 3 or 4 guns through INGO ads. If I posted the buyer USERIDs, make, model, and serial number, and price paid, of those guns right here in this thread, I have posted NOTHING that is not searchable, obtainable information already. Again, the illusion of privacy is a false sense of security. Privacy no longer exists.

But let's make it easier for anyone to see and document it with the push of a single button!



As the seller, your info is out there about what you sold. The buyers info ISN'T...

But funny you say all that, as you've sold 4 guns but only left feedback on one transaction (and you outed the buyer)...

Don't have to participate in an HOA, can always go elsewhere to buy.

Very true. Now get the folks in the HOA thread to understand that (good luck)!

 

[armalitesheepdog]

The buyer outed himself when he said I will take it in the not so private PM
Nothing is private

 

[firecadet613]

The buyer outed himself when he said I will take it in the not so private PM
Nothing is private

How is a PM searchable to the public on INGO?!

 

[Bassat]

How is a PM searchable to the public on INGO?!

Searchable? Maybe not. That depends on the structure and programming of the web-site. Private? No way on earth. That information is subpoena-able. If DA, FBI, ATF, CIA, ABCEDFG wants it, all they have to do is ask for it.

 

[firecadet613]

Searchable? Maybe not. That depends on the structure and programming of the web-site. Private? No way on earth. That information is subpoena-able. If DA, FBI, ATF, CIA, ABCEDFG wants it, all they have to do is ask for it.

No sh*t.

But instead, many on here are OK with making that info public for all to see, in essence creating a public registry.

Big difference in that vs when the feds go sniffing...

Anything done on (or around) an electric device with a camera, microphone, or GPS isn't private. I use cellular mass mobile daily so I'm well aware of that...

 

[keeph8n]

What a lovely thread

 

[Airtevron1]

You seem to have missed the point, entirely. It already IS happening, EVERYWHERE. Name a place where you honestly believe you have any modicum of privacy. The US Supreme Court has ruled, numerous times, that Americans have no expectations of privacy outside their own homes. If you harbor any expectation of privacy inside your home, you are truly delusional. Cell phones, Alexa devices, credit cards, WIFI, doorbell cams, home security, baby monitors, wrist watches, Fitbits, personal computers, laptops, kindles, internet connected washer, dryer, range, freezer, furnace, air conditioner, and hundreds more similar devices, implanted auto-defibrillators, pacemakers, in your home, hooked up to the rest of the world. For $#!T's sake, my sister-in-law got a total knee replacement in May. THE DAMN THING IS CONNCTED TO THE INTERNET! It can tell her how many steps she takes, how far she ran or walked, whether or not she is stretching properly, even if she is gaining/losing weight. Privacy my A$$. It exists only as a figment of the imagination.

Doesn't mean it has to happen here

 

[Ingomike]

We have a difference of opinion. To my eye, there is absolutely no point plugging security holes while one is publicly streaming all the information that is 'supposedly' desirable to keep private. It seems quite silly to post private information on a highway billboard, the expect people not to look at it. Nearly every interaction everyone has with anyone these days is subject to snooping. There is absolutely no way to do anything in public and not have it visible others; that is the definition of public. It seems the hard part for most folks to believe here is that INGO is a public space. Do it here, it is archived FOREVER, just like every other piece of information on the internet.

Why can’t you discuss this without YELLING? Are your points so weak. We should endeavor to be as secure as we can in all transactions, whether it is scanning a drivers license at the grocery or hotel or just not linking every buyer on INGO to the exact item they bought.

So since they can track everything anyway, might as well take the mark of the beast…

 

[Ingomike]

And that IS my question. What does it matter? Documenting something that is ALREADY PUBLIC is NOT protecting anything. It is by definition: REDUNDANT. I've sold 3 or 4 guns through INGO ads. If I posted the buyer USERIDs, make, model, and serial number, and price paid, of those guns right here in this thread, I have posted NOTHING that is not searchable, obtainable information already. Again, the illusion of privacy is a false sense of security. Privacy no longer exists.

Yelling again! Why do you even care is others want to make it more secure? You are arguing against making something more secure. Just because you gave up doesn’t mean everyone else must.

 

[Ingomike]

The buyer outed himself when he said I will take it in the not so private PM
Nothing is private

Not everyone says that. So they have defeated you too. Sorry, I’m still in the fight…

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I think there's a misunderstanding going on here that's making this whole debate very muddy.

Many (myself included) at first interpreted the OP's concern as being mainly about creating a registry that government agencies can use to determine what guns you have bought. If this is the main concern, then it seems rather silly to think that the feedback system, specifically, is causing this, while acting like the act of registering for this forum, sending online messages to the seller, and then presumably using cellphones to communicate and set up a time/place for the sale doesn't already serve all that information up to any interested government agency, making any feedback left completely irrelevant and redundant.

However, it seems that the OP is not concerned so much with government agencies that would easily be able to access non-public information, such as PM's, but rather with the information being publicly visible to random individuals, including those who do not have the abilities of 3-letter agencies to snoop and spy into "private" online info. If this is the case, then yes, leaving feedback on the buyer's profile does make public information that would have otherwise not been available to just any random individual.

 

[Ingomike]

I think there's a misunderstanding going on here that's making this whole debate very muddy.

Many (myself included) at first interpreted the OP's concern as being mainly about creating a registry that government agencies can use to determine what guns you have bought. If this is the main concern, then it seems rather silly to think that the feedback system, specifically, is causing this, while acting like the act of registering for this forum, sending online messages to the seller, and then presumably using cellphones to communicate and set up a time/place for the sale doesn't already serve all that information up to any interested government agency, making any feedback left completely irrelevant and redundant.

However, it seems that the OP is not concerned so much with government agencies that would easily be able to access non-public information, such as PM's, but rather with the information being publicly visible to random individuals, including those who do not have the abilities of 3-letter agencies to snoop and spy into "private" online info. If this is the case, then yes, leaving feedback on the buyer's profile does make public information that would have otherwise not been available to just any random individual.

You got it. I believe the the main point was that the seller doing buyer feedback, without buyer approval, was tying the buyer to a specific purchase. The seller no longer owns it, they likely have less concern than a buyer that the whole public, even guests on the site can see.

 

[firecadet613]

I think there's a misunderstanding going on here that's making this whole debate very muddy.

Many (myself included) at first interpreted the OP's concern as being mainly about creating a registry that government agencies can use to determine what guns you have bought. If this is the main concern, then it seems rather silly to think that the feedback system, specifically, is causing this, while acting like the act of registering for this forum, sending online messages to the seller, and then presumably using cellphones to communicate and set up a time/place for the sale doesn't already serve all that information up to any interested government agency, making any feedback left completely irrelevant and redundant.

However, it seems that the OP is not concerned so much with government agencies that would easily be able to access non-public information, such as PM's, but rather with the information being publicly visible to random individuals, including those who do not have the abilities of 3-letter agencies to snoop and spy into "private" online info. If this is the case, then yes, leaving feedback on the buyer's profile does make public information that would have otherwise not been available to just any random individual.

Exactly.....a "public registry"...

 

[firecadet613]

You'd think the average INGO member would know any registry is bad, yet here we are...

 

[armalitesheepdog]

Not everyone says that. So they have defeated you too. Sorry, I’m still in the fight…

Ok?

 

[Cameramonkey]

The buyer outed himself when he said I will take it in the not so private PM
Nothing is private

PMs here are more private than you realize. We have had issues before, and even TK as the super admin/owner cant even read them the way the board software authors built it. We can see message counts, but that is all. Yes I can tell you how many conversations are in your inbox, but nothing more.

Thats not saying that an alphabet agency cant get the database and reverse engineer it. But someone with the power to peek into your inbox here? Doesnt exist. (And there were several times staff wished it did)

 

[Ingomike]

PMs here are more private than you realize. We have had issues before, and even TK as the super admin/owner cant even read them the way the board software authors built it. We can see message counts, but that is all. Yes I can tell you how many conversations are in your inbox, but nothing more.

Thats not saying that an alphabet agency cant get the database and reverse engineer it. But someone with the power to peek into your inbox here? Doesnt exist. (And there were several times staff wished it did)

That’s good to hear…

 

[firecadet613]

PMs here are more private than you realize. We have had issues before, and even TK as the super admin/owner cant even read them the way the board software authors built it. We can see message counts, but that is all. Yes I can tell you how many conversations are in your inbox, but nothing more.

Thats not saying that an alphabet agency cant get the database and reverse engineer it. But someone with the power to peek into your inbox here? Doesnt exist. (And there were several times staff wished it did)

Wow, @BigRed told me he could read them!

Good to know, thanks. And yes, you're likely correct, the big boys likely have access to it all...