Fanatical religious terrorist incident Colorado Springs.

[printcraft]

Actually it has, and IS currently happening. It's not the western world, so ill forgive you for not knowing.

Christians are killing infidels?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Christians are killing infidels?

In a variety of interesting ways

 

[printcraft]

In a variety of interesting ways

Like not allowing medical care on religious grounds or something?
Christian drone operators setting innocents on fire?
Help me out here.

 

[chipbennett]

I have a point to make Chip. The verse mentioned CAN be used by loons to justify killing non-believers, despite what it may actually mean to some.

Anything - literally, anything - can be used by loons to justify acts of evil.

I betting that the same, admittedly faulty, logic I used, is used the same concerning passages in the Koran.

I know only enough of the Koran to know that this is untrue, and that the Koran passages are nothing like Luke 19:27 - but not enough to argue the point articulately. I'll have to leave that to others.

So I'm hoping someone will post up the "kill the infidel" passages so we can take a look at what they really mean, rather than simply saying (out of context), "the Koran says 'this' or 'that'."

IIRC, the 9th Sura is particularly instructive. It is arguably the latest-revealed Sura to Mohammad, and thus (as per the custom of interpreting the Koran) abrogates the earlier, more peaceful verses. Hot Air did a pretty thorough treatment, including the "Verse of the Sword", 9:5:

Blogging the Qur?an: Sura 9, ?Repentance,? verses 1-5 « Hot Air
Blogging the Qur?an: Sura 9, ?Repentance,? verses 6-14 « Hot Air
Blogging the Qur?an: Sura 9, ?Repentance,? verses 14-28 « Hot Air
Blogging the Qur?an: Sura 9, ?Repentance,? verse 29 « Hot Air
Blogging the Qur?an: Sura 9, ?Repentance,? verse 29, Part 2 « Hot Air
Blogging the Qur?an: Sura 9, ?Repentance,? verses 30-49 « Hot Air
Blogging the Qur?an: Sura 9, ?Repentance,? verses 50-80 « Hot Air
Blogging the Qur?an: Sura 9, ?Repentance,? verses 81-129 « Hot Air

 

[rvb]

Perhaps I used the wrong words. Is the passage not about punishing the non-believer, buy ending their existence? And yeah, I've read the chapter well before this instance.
I also asked about the Islamic passages to kill the non-believer, as I have not read the Koran.

it's about being denied eternal life in the Kingdom of God, separated in the lake of fire.... dead to God... death in the Bible is often used to describe separation from God. So it is about the death of the non-believer, but it's not at the hands of mortals.

It's been a long time since I read up on those vs in the Koran, but the way I remember it the vs do specifically talk about killing the infidels. It's usually explained that it in the context it's a reference to times of war/combat as opposed to the Boston Marathon... kind of like how in Ecclesiastes 3 "there's a time to kill" is used to justify a soldier who is acting righteously during war. But I think the "radicalized" have a different take on the interpretation. [I'm -far- from an expert, so my memory may be off]

-rvb

 

[Jludo]

it's about being denied eternal life in the Kingdom of God, separated in the lake of fire.... dead to God... death in the Bible is often used to describe separation from God. So it is about the death of the non-believer, but it's not at the hands of mortals.

It's been a long time since I read up on those vs in the Koran, but the way I remember it the vs do specifically talk about killing the infidels. It's usually explained that it in the context it's a reference to times of war/combat as opposed to the Boston Marathon... kind of like how in Ecclesiastes 3 "there's a time to kill" is used to justify a soldier who is acting righteously during war. But I think the "radicalized" have a different take on the interpretation. [I'm -far- from an expert, so my memory may be off]

-rvb

Or God commanding moses to kill women and children. It was a specific event that shouldn't be used to justify a modern invasion and genocide.

 

[BugI02]

You don't see any sort of double standard between how we treat Islam and how we treat Christianity on this forum?

Point taken. When people who currently profess to follow Mohammed stop killing in his name, or when a significant faction of people currently professing to follow Jesus start killing in his name perhaps I'll address that difference. Please note that I called no one a name nor ridiculed their beliefs while answering your query.

 

[BugI02]

So where is the command to Muslims to kill non-Muslims?

What about Muslims who want to become non-Muslims?

 

[jbombelli]

Christians are killing infidels?

Check out Lord's Resistance Army for starters.

 

[Jludo]

Point taken. When people who currently profess to follow Mohammed stop killing in his name, or when a significant faction of people currently professing to follow Jesus start killing in his name perhaps I'll address that difference. Please note that I called no one a name nor ridiculed their beliefs while answering your query.

So there is a double standard but it is justified?

 

[churchmouse]

 

[Jludo]

Here are a few examples of intellectually honest Atheists....

[video=youtube;6md638smQd8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6md638smQd8[/video]

I agree about Penn Jillette.

He's does a good job explaining how some of us feel.

[video=youtube;_qJDd-2tM-A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qJDd-2tM-A[/video]

 

[Jludo]

I believe I'm a big fan of Penn Jillette because of how well he meshes Atheism with Libertarianism. Atheism doesn't necessarily lend itself towards socialism.

 

[printcraft]

Check out Lord's Resistance Army for starters.

Ah, ok, so there is one group. Definitely widespread.

Are they in every country in the world or just one country of Africa?

 

[jbombelli]

Ah, ok, so there is one group. Definitely widespread.

Are they in every country in the world or just one country of Africa?

The question I believe was "Christians killing infidels?"

As posed the question didn't address how widespread it may or may not be.

You could probably add the KKK to that, the National Liberation Front of Tripura in India, Antibalaka in Africa, both sides in Ireland although that seems to have calmed as of late, and several others if you care to actually read up on it. Christian terrorism is a thing, it's just not talked about a lot here.

 

[BugI02]

So there is a double standard but it is justified?

Not quite. If Christians begin random killings in Jesus' name then I would view them as I view Muslims now; with suspicion, because I am unable, at the distance I am removed from their everyday lives, to tell the dangerous ones from all the rest. Should Muslims stop random killings in Allahs name I would be inclined to view them as I do most Christians, specifically, that I don't need to be able to discern the dangerous ones because there aren't any. I view them both through the lens of how likely they are to want to randomly, reasonlessly kill me or mine. One standard, applied in the same way to both groups.

 

[oldpink]

As history illustrates, many who called themselves Christians carried out mass atrocities on a wholesale level, especially during medieval times and the Inquisition.
However, we had the Enlightment, which was a result of other Christians refusing the evil, which resulted in the Reformation, which was in fact, actually bringing Christianity back much closer to what it was intended to be at its founding.
There are no more institutionalized burnings at the stake, no more beheadings, no more stonings, no more crucifixions...at least not being conducted by Christians.
For some reason, those atrocities, and even worse, are happening at the hands of others, others who proudly proclaim that their religion commands that they carry out these atrocities.
Anyone who can't see that is either stupid or lying.

 

[Kutnupe14]

As history illustrates, many who called themselves Christians carried out mass atrocities on a wholesale level, especially during medieval times and the Inquisition.
However, we had the Enlightment, which was a result of other Christians refusing the evil, which resulted in the Reformation, which was in fact, actually bringing Christianity back much closer to what it was intended to be at its founding.
There are no more institutionalized burnings at the stake, no more beheadings, no more stonings, no more crucifixions...at least not being conducted by Christians.
For some reason, those atrocities, and even worse, are happening at the hands of others, others who proudly proclaim that their religion commands that they carry out these atrocities.
Anyone who can't see that is either stupid or lying.

Uh, did some "Christians" burn some suspected witches at the stake in Kenya, not too long ago?

 

[printcraft]

Meh

 

[oldpink]

Uh, did some "Christians" burn some suspected witches at the stake in Kenya, not too long ago?

You mean the same country where witch doctors are commonplace?
Don't (B)arbara (S)treisand me.