Fanatical religious terrorist incident Colorado Springs.

[BugI02]

This thread is pure gold. After some time off I've come to realize it can sometimes be more fun to observe than to participate.

Voyeur, lol

 

[BugI02]

Printcraft, how many on your list were motivated to commit those acts based on their ideology? They very well may have been leftists, but you'll have to make a connection to their crimes with their political affiliations, in order to say that was a motivating factor. In other words, where's the correlation?

And so the splitting of the hairs begins

 

[IndyDave1776]

Seems like he helped set up a democratic republic, and despite what INGO often things, democratically elected officials aren't tyrants. Oh, I know, I've read it on INGO that this isn't true. Obama is going to suspend the Constitution, take a 3rd term, and have the UN invade to prop his regime up. What happened to FEMA death camps? Weren't we supposed to be gearing up to take on FEMA awhile back? What's the Tyrant Fantasy de jour?

Wait, has anyone declared this to be a false flag operation yet? That's really popular these days, too. Any act of violence must also be some vast conspiracy to discredit someone. False flag! False flag!

I am not getting ready to saddle up the horse and ride around the countryside screaming, "THE JACKBOOTS ARE COMING!", but you have introduced a false premise in claiming that democratically elected officials aren't tyrants. Jefferson himself observed that there is nothing to be preferred in exchanging one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants one mile away, as I paraphrase him from memory. It rests entirely upon respecting natural rights, and there has been massive failure on the part of the government to respect natural rights, or even adhere to the baseline standards enumerated in the Constitution for several decades.

 

[BugI02]

I lean extremely far right but there is a [STRIKE]small[/STRIKE] huge part of me that usually hangs to the left. Should I be worried?

Only if you felt compelled to tell your tailor you dress right. Then you're vulnerable to the small hotel problem

 

[Dirtebiker]

Can you provide me the source of the ascertion made that he was passing out pamphlets. I missed that. Thanks.

ONE neighbor said he gave him some pamphlets ONCE.

 

[hoosierdoc]

ONE neighbor said he gave him some pamphlets ONCE.

Still propf this guy is a typical lucid christian conservative hell bent on murdering those who are evil...

 

[Expat]

Still propf this guy is a typical lucid christian conservative hell bent on murdering those who are evil...

I am now convinced.

 

[2A_Tom]

I think they said it was an AK-47; so, it could be anything but a muzzle-loading shotgun.
He probably bought it mail order from a non-licensed gun dealer at a gun show.

Yep. It had to have been some kind of loophole.

It was probably legally purchaced. So, according to CSGV and MNSA he was a good guy with a gun that snapped.

 

[KellyinAvon]

A few thoughts:
As far as I know this PP official was not one of the salad munching/wine sippers from the videos. Memes being pushed from many sides.
Planned Parenthood official says Colorado gunman opposed abortion | Fox News

No Unabomber comparison? Ted K lived in a shack with no electricity, similar appearance, killed 3 people. I didn't read all of this thread so props if someone beat me to it.

Two sticks on a shack in the shape of a cross doesn't make one a Christian, but murdering people does make one a murderer.

How much news does this guy get in his shack?

I saw a lot of clinical types leaving that building on their feet. There's a lot more to come out on this.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I am not getting ready to saddle up the horse and ride around the countryside screaming, "THE JACKBOOTS ARE COMING!", but you have introduced a false premise in claiming that democratically elected officials aren't tyrants. Jefferson himself observed that there is nothing to be preferred in exchanging one tyrant 3000 miles away for 3000 tyrants one mile away, as I paraphrase him from memory. It rests entirely upon respecting natural rights, and there has been massive failure on the part of the government to respect natural rights, or even adhere to the baseline standards enumerated in the Constitution for several decades.

Well, no. The quote is actually from a pro-Monarchy preacher and is " "Which is better, to be ruled by one tyrant three thousand miles away or by three thousand tyrants one mile away?" Mather Byles ? Revolutionary Characters

Note we have checks and balances and elections (which, btw, allow way more of the population to vote and be represented then in the days of the founding). Seems like the founding fathers put down rebellions pretty quickly and let the new processes take their course, right? If you like, I've got about 4 Jefferson books and biographies, we can see how he actually defined tyrants.

All we have to do to shake off this "tyranny" is vote. The fact other voters don't agree with you, or the ones who do can't be bothered to show up, is not evidence of a tyranny.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Well, no. The quote is actually from a pro-Monarchy preacher and is " "Which is better, to be ruled by one tyrant three thousand miles away or by three thousand tyrants one mile away?" Mather Byles ? Revolutionary Characters

Note we have checks and balances and elections (which, btw, allow way more of the population to vote and be represented then in the days of the founding). Seems like the founding fathers put down rebellions pretty quickly and let the new processes take their course, right? If you like, I've got about 4 Jefferson books and biographies, we can see how he actually defined tyrants.

All we have to do to shake off this "tyranny" is vote. The fact other voters don't agree with you, or the ones who do can't be bothered to show up, is not evidence of a tyranny.

I suppose it is a matter of perspective, but the principal measure by which I define tyranny is that of compliance with those natural rights previously mentioned. I would also point out that democracy can be and usually in fact becomes one of the most oppressive forms of government known to man when 51% of the people realize that they collectively can run roughshod over the remaining 49%. At a cursory glance, 'rule by the people' would seem to solve the problem, but in reality makes it far worse and more dangerous. A good example is the tipping point of more people voting for a living than there are working for a living. No chains or forced residence, but still a pernicious form of slavery.

 

[Denny347]

Colorado Gunman Told Police 'No More Baby Parts' | Officer.com

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I suppose it is a matter of perspective, but the principal measure by which I define tyranny is that of compliance with those natural rights previously mentioned. I would also point out that democracy can be and usually in fact becomes one of the most oppressive forms of government known to man when 51% of the people realize that they collectively can run roughshod over the remaining 49%. At a cursory glance, 'rule by the people' would seem to solve the problem, but in reality makes it far worse and more dangerous. A good example is the tipping point of more people voting for a living than there are working for a living. No chains or forced residence, but still a pernicious form of slavery.

Right. Which is why we have checks and balances and a Constitution, why we are not purely a democracy. Do I really need to list issues that have more than 51% public support but failed as law?

 

[bonkers1919]

Except for a one line snippet "no more baby parts" and who knows if the suspect actually said it, I will reserve thoughts.

 

[Kutnupe14]

And so the splitting of the hairs begins

Not splitting hairs at all. If a guy who is a left-wing, goes on a spree killing at his job because they fired his best friend, what does that have to do with ideology? Now if he goes on a spree killing, because he hates capitalist big business, then his ideology is a factor.
Whether you're willing to admit it or not, the rhetoric used by BOTH sides sometimes has an effect on the fringe of their respective groups. It's disingenuous to look at a tragedy, and blame the perpetrator, based on their ideology, if the event is in no way related. How about looking at what inspired the attack, and THEN if it fits into a particular person's beliefs, assail the misconstrued belief.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Right. Which is why we have checks and balances and a Constitution, why we are not purely a democracy. Do I really need to list issues that have more than 51% public support but failed as law?

You would appear to be returning to 'This is America. That can't happen here.' I would challenge you to take an honest look at our present state of being in contrast with the government provided for and allowed by the Constitution, and also in contrast with the rights enumerated within the Constitution (which are far from faithfully respected), and then consider the Ninth Amendment provision that enumeration of certain rights does not disparage natural rights which are not enumerated, and then try telling me that all is well.

 

[KG1]

ONE neighbor said he gave him some pamphlets ONCE.

and another neighbor said that he rambled on about a number of unrelated topics but never mentioned politics or religion. It's my opinion that the guy was'nt really a hard core activist but rather a nutjob that latched on to a hot button topic and took it to the extreme.

 

[DragonGunner]

Our Republic that we are suppose to be is dead, we replaced it with democracy whose end according to Thomas Jefferson will end with suicide. We still have a Constitution, but its often bypassed, and ignored by tyranny of a democracy….majority tyranny of a congress, supreme court and president have all been doing this…examples of twisting the words of Thomas Jefferson and after 3 Supreme Court hearings we now have a unconstitutional "Seperation of church and sate", we also have prayer no longer in school, democracy to tyrants has brought legalized murder called abortion, also has redefined marriage so now we have gay marriage…..and it keeps going on Constitution be damned, its democracy that now rules. You can have 100% of people voting but if you have corrupt politicians where does it get you…? The Constituion was only made for a religious and moral people, and without that it dies right along with democracy. To fight against tyranny, to restore the Republic and get back to the Constitution one must only look at my sig line, its the only way. And many choose not to, and this is our undoing.

 

[Kutnupe14]

ONE neighbor said he gave him some pamphlets ONCE.

How many times is he supposed to pass out the same info, to the same person? And we have no idea who else he passed that info out too. The point is, that he was passing out info. So it's a fair bet that he was at least "somewhat" politically motivated.
Why is this even a concern? Him being a nutcase, isn't due to him appearing to be conservative. How he most likely identified, is in now way representive of the vast majority of people who share a similar identity. He's a fringe loon. Both sides have them.

 

[Alpo]

I once accepted a pamphlet from a Hare Krishna as I was going to the boarding gates in the airport. I didn't read it. I threw it in a trash container nearby.

I suppose that could be construed to either supporting or hating religion.

300 posts on this thread and almost no socially redeeming value. Slow weekend in Hoosierville.