Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[phylodog]

So you're saying you living in a HOA was pathetic? Or that those just starting out as a young married couple and choosing to live in a HOA neighborhood (for a myriad of reasons) is pathetic?

HOAs are pathetic because the reasons behind their existence I find pathetic. Most people living under HOA rule would prefer not to be.

 

[jkaetz]

Why do you think the deed restrictions became so popular with developers? I believe some in the industry experienced losses and their immediate response is to shield themselves from the losses.


But it is an overstatement to say anyone is forced. If the market is there, why do so few builders build without covenants and restrictions? I can’t believe that someone wouldn’t fill that market. If a builder sold a house to some people who decided to paint it in a way most would consider hideous before the builder sold nearby lots do you think they would easily sell the empty adjoining lots?

In my mind this right here shows that it isn't the market (home buyer demand) that brought about HOAs. It was developer choice to prevent them from "losing money". I'm also skeptical that they lost money so much as they didn't make as much as they told their investors they would. They've then also sold this to the homeowners as "It'll protect your home value!" Meanwhile the developer gets to go to the next large plot of land increase their prices and start all over.

The majority of homebuyers today are not buying their forever home, that is not how society works today, see all the jobs the young today have had while most in INGO have had a couple in a lifetime. Resale value is huge among the younger. They are buying starter homes, move up 1 for kids home, move up 2 for older kids home, empty nester home, and senior condo.

I'm just not buying it. You're not typically making any headway buying a starter home and then moving up. Any gains you made on the starter home will be a wash on the larger home you purchase. Buying a home VS renting an apartment is where the real gain comes from. The rest has to come from increased income or another outside source. We could sell our current house for almost 70% more than we purchased at but without more income we could not move up. That's even ignoring the massive interest rates today compared to what we currently have.

To make those moves they must have rock solid property values, the group want an HOA to protect their values. They may even complain or respond to a survey negatively but at the end of the day they know they need to protect their values to move to the next level.

Addressed above.

This would eliminate the right of people to have the neighborhood aesthetic they want. Indy blue does not want the same things from his neighborhood as I do. Neither are right or wrong just different. I good friends that work on cars and trucks at their homes but that is not where I want to live. I do not want a wall of RV’s in most drives. BTW, starting to see the folks that want to do the RV thing buying in neighborhoods without covenants and the neighborhood is looking more like an RV sale lot than neighborhood to me.

I don't believe this is a right people should have to begin with. If people want to volunteer to do this so be it. Tacking it on to a house purchase is no better than all the non-sense that gets tacked onto otherwise good federal legislation.

So you are agreeing this is taking landowners rights but since it is unsympathetic developers it will not be a big deal?

I'll present the other side if this coin. How many deed restrictions exist to protect a family owned lot from having a pig farm or something else undesirable next to it vs those used to serve the interest of corporate America? And no, I have little sympathy for big businesses that use their resources to influence the markets in their benefit.

I actually know or have known a lot of developers over the years. I do not need access to their books to know business. I know development is a risky business and subject to markets beyond control of the companies and they work to mitigate all risk they can. Wild cards in neighborhoods can be mitigated easily.

Great, but another example of shifting the market in their favor. They then dress it up as good for the consumer.

The later part basically creates a bait and switch for those that want a robust set of covenants and HOA protections.

That's unfortunate that they wish to leverage that control over their neighbors. We used to celebrate individualism, now we go to great lengths to make everyone the same. If 80% of the group can't agree on doing a thing together, that thing probably shouldn't be done in the first place. Even at 80%, you're still forcing the other 20% to do something they did not want to.

Do you really trust surveys? That is not the typical INGO response nor even the typical response of some posters in this thread promoting those surveys? Like I said I before, I trust what the market does more than any survey.

I don't think the usual suspects are trying to spin HOA like/dislike as much as they do gun, climate, and other political hot topics. I'm also skeptical of the market when it doesn't readily offer an alternative. Yes you can go seek out an older home or a plot out in the woods, but both of these options have opportunity cost associated with them preventing a direct alternative.

There are many reasons the laws and customs concerning land transfers of rights we have in place were created. I am sure some were good and some were bad but at the end of the day we have it better in this country than anywhere else in the world. No matter how much we all complain about it in the political section.

Agreed.

 

[Ingomike]

Freedom vs security

No it is not. But not surprising from communists that want to take land owners rights.

 

[firecadet613]

HOAs are pathetic because the reasons behind their existence I find pathetic. Most people living under HOA rule would prefer not to be.

Glad I'm not most people. . There is nothing stopping them from moving.

I'm just not buying it. You're not typically making any headway buying a starter home and then moving up. Any gains you made on the starter home will be a wash on the larger home you purchase. Buying a home VS renting an apartment is where the real gain comes from. The rest has to come from increased income or another outside source. We could sell our current house for almost 70% more than we purchased at but without more income we could not move up. That's even ignoring the massive interest rates today compared to what we currently have.

Who's income isn't going up after they bought their starter home?! I bought my "starter home" when I was 19 and single. When I sold it a few years later, my income was substantially higher - then add in my wife's. Renting is nothing more than throwing money away, IMO, similar to leasing a car (and I used to buy / trade every 2yrs/60k miles - much better than a lease). Not joining the masses in moving every 5-7 years is where you can gain equity in your home and make progress.

My understanding is the rates the past few years have been historically low and not the norm. While the home we sold appreciated 252% in value, the home we bought went up in value quite a bit (can't put a # on it, as it was vacant land when the folks we bought it from, bought it).

Increasing your income while reducing expenses is the sweet spot...

Yes you can go seek out an older home or a plot out in the woods, but both of these options have opportunity cost associated with them preventing a direct alternative.

Most folks looking to buy a HOA neighborhood cannot afford or do the home in the woods. They can do the older existing home and many folks do, but again, the folks in their 20s-30s with young kids, want the HOAs. The few that I know and don't want that, isn't because of the HOA. They want land and an older home...

 

[jamil]

WTF needs changed? Outlawing HOAs?

For Mike, yes.

For everyone else, how about we just even up that hobson’s choice a bit? Then all the people who like matching outfits and mailboxes, can live together in bliss.

 

[jamil]

No it is not. But not surprising from communists that want to take land owners rights.

Nuh uh. Yer the communist. So there.

 

[jamil]

HOAs are pathetic because the reasons behind their existence I find pathetic. Most people living under HOA rule would prefer not to be.

Wait. You don’t like matching mailboxes? You don’t like coordinated home colors? Cookie cutter homes? You cad.

 

[phylodog]

No it is not. But not surprising from communists that want to take land owners rights.

Absolutely it is. Trading property rights for financial security. You've clearly stated it yourself in this thread. You don't have to like facts but you don't get to change them.

 

[actaeon277]

You guys are sucking all the fun out of this thread anymore

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Nuh uh. Yer the communist. So there.

Would the HOA let him have the commie flag, tacked up on the wall inside of his garage?

 

[Creedmoor]

You guys are sucking all the fun out of this thread anymore

This horse was dead a 1,000 posts ago.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

You guys are sucking all the fun out of this thread anymore

Jamil and I are trying to put the fun back!

 

[actaeon277]

Jamil and I are trying to put the fun back!

 

[jamil]

You guys are sucking all the fun out of this thread anymore

I am trying to infuse as much fun as can be had.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I am trying to infuse as much fun as can be had.

Sometimes, ya gotta laugh to keep from cryin'.

 

[actaeon277]

I am trying to infuse as much fun as can be had.

A horse walks into a bar. The shocked bartender points a finger his way in alarm and yells, “Hey!”
The horse says, “You read my mind, buddy.”

 

[repeter1977]

Only communists want to take rights from landowners, at least that is what I was told on INGO…

Which is what HOAs do. Thanks

 

[Ingomike]

Precious little, which makes compromising that little bit off even more ridiculous.

I am glad, as I have said repeatedly you have a choice that suits you since you get so little value from an HOA. Why do you keep insisting that I not have the choice I want?

 

[Ingomike]

Sure it is, and it’s my right to voice my opinion that it is pathetic.

What is pathetic is those that cannot see the freedom of assembly in a neighborhood association that some folks want. It is a freedom and what you propose, in the name of freedom, takes that freedom away.

 

[repeter1977]

What is pathetic is those that cannot see the freedom of assembly in a neighborhood association that some folks want. It is a freedom and what you propose, in the name of freedom, takes that freedom away.

Except it's not always voluntary as went over numerous times.