Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[jamil]

I'm not sure a Public Government will do the job in a timely fashion like most HOA's do. I have a neighbor across the street from a home I own, who has not yet mowed his lawn this year. All of the neighbors have all called the city more than once, and the city government has yet to do anything.
Now with full disclosure I will say that I have mowed it twice, I'm not doing it anymore. He works three 12 hr days and sits in his house the rest of the time.
Hes just that lazy.

View attachment 361125

sounds like a problem with your city.

 

[firecadet613]

Yes. I was on an HOA board, I think it was probably ~1990ish. My purpose was to vote no on all the stupid Karen **** they wanted to control and convince as many board members as possible to vote against. I just wish we had the name "Karen" for nosy controlling people then.


If an HOA can't find enough people to be on the board, it may be because you have decent neighbors who live and let live. Or, maybe it's a rare board that hasn't pulled any stupid ********, so the non-conformists in the neighborhood aren't compelled to get on the board.

I've lived on a small lot in neighborhoods without an HOA. The blades of grass on a given lawn may not have all been the exact height as everyone else's, but all and all, property values didn't suffer for it. There were already local ordinances against the usual stuff. No cars on blocks. No fences above a certain height. Etcetera.

Grass all wasn't a certain height in my neighborhood. I should have grabbed some pics while I was out and about in Greenwood yesterday, two neighborhoods next to each other and I bet you could easily guess which had a HOA and which didn't (and had more valuable properties).

If you don't like it, petition for an ordiance or stfu. But, if you petition for it, people get to argue to defend against your controlling whims. You live in a neighborhood with an HOA, they get to impose all kinds of nonsense. HOA's are an unnecessary Karen magnet.

Again, not my experience. If you were on the HOA board, does that make you Karen or Chad?

Except some places force you to join before moving in. Avoid like the plague.

Avoid like the plague and you're good. What's the problem?

Well, slavery also used to be acceptable to the masses, maybe they knew something INGOers didn't.
Or maybe INGOers understand freedom is better, freedom from slavery and HOAs. Too many others haven't studied history enough to realize there is a reason to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. After all, look at all the gun control supported in Chicago. Using your logic, maybe they know something we don't. Or maybe we know something they don't. I'll go with gun control bad because it limits freedom.

You have to sign the covenants when you close on the property. It shouldn't be a surprise on closing day. If it is, FIRE your buyers agent!

It's a legally binding contract between consenting adults, if you don't like it, don't sign. Simple as that.

It's apparent from your previous posts you don't understand real estate law and what's legal, not just hypothetical BS people are posting.

Again, the most sought after neighborhoods in Indy/suburbs have HOAs.

A problem with joining a neighborhood with HOA's is that when you move in, things seem sane. The composition of boards change. And when Karens become HOA presidents, **** gets real pretty quick. You might be fine with the idea of HOA's. Everything is fine for a few years. Then you start getting nasty-grams because of some nit-picky **** someone found in the covenants to harass you with. Because they can.

And there's not a lot you can do about it. You can sue the board. But the covenants usually has language requiring disputes go to arbitration. Which usually sides with the institution over individuals, right or wrong. It's why institutions prefer arbitration, not just because arbitration is cheaper than a court fight. They have a better chance of getting a favorable decision with arbitration than with juries.

I'm sure it depends on where you are. 400+ house HOA in Brownsburg and zero issues over 15+ years.

sounds like a problem with your city.

Agreed. Many cities would be on that like a fat kid on cake. I'm being where Creedmoor is they don't yet have a 'code enforcement officer'.

 

[Creedmoor]

sounds like a problem with your city.

Yes it is, we have voted in a horrible administration.
When the Mayor and one of our towns policeman grew up together and are best friends, you dont vote one on them into the Mayors office.
Now we have almost twice as many policemen as we had 6-7 years ago, almost a new fleet of cruisers, a few sent to Sniper school, and the accoutrements that go along with that. A few years ago 20 million was voted in for our three schools, it did nothing for the children. For a city of 4,800 with around 1750 property's and not all of those pay property taxes.
They just don't seem to understand we just cant keep writing these checks.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Post #486 was from me yesterday morning (at 0759) thanking everyone for keeping it between the ditches. 614 minus 486 = 128 posts in just over 24 hours (OK 3 were mine and at least 1 of the 3 was funny.)

Edit: math is now wrong since there were a bunch added.

This thread got in the ditch a few times but it's back on the road now.

I'm trying to stay neutral in this one since I'm a staff member and an HOA board VP (best job to have, unless the President gets hit by a bus I don't have a lot of responsibilities.)

I grew up on a farm 7 miles from the nearest highway. In 21+ years in the USAF we spent 14 years living on-base. 3.5 years of this was Fort Walton Beach, Florida (read that as HOA Hell) and 4 years was at Langley AFB, Virginia (Hampton Roads area, HOAs were worse than Florida. No kidding, my wife worked for an HOA management company.) We've lived in a subdivision with 83 homes (we were the 10th home in the neighborhood) since 2008. I have observed a lot over the years.

The developer had control of the HOA until we hit a certain number of houses in 2012. My wife was on the initial board with homeowners (had the experience, that'll teach her) and I'm glad she was.

At some point we realized one of us has to be on the board because "we aren't crazy." Most of the other board members weren't crazy either. Note I said most, not all.

Mowing/landscaping contract for the common area, pond maintenance, liability insurance, electric bill, water bill, sprinkler system. Not real exciting but necessary. Not free either.

We do our best to keep the bills paid within the current budget. Everything has gotten more expensive so that's not always an option.

Our board has been one short (4 instead of 5) for a couple years because nobody else has raised their hand. One lot/one vote so you can't have two from the same house on the board. Maybe they think we (the 4 of us, none are retired, all work full time, I'm the only empty nester) are doing ok.

A covenant is a legally binding agreement. I've always viewed it as a limitation on the HOA as well. Kind of like how the Constitution limits the government.

People on a HOA board:

- People who aren't crazy and know it is important

- People pushing an agenda and bail as soon as they get/don't get what they want

- People who are retired and bored (not bad to have 1 of those, but don't let them take over)

- People who don't have a management style as much as they have personality disorders

Now the other people in the neighborhood:

- Want to live their lives and be left alone (this is the majority)

- ***holes

- ***holes whose children are ***holes

- Clinically insane ***holes

- ***holes who park in a manner that won't allow emergency vehicles to get through

- ***holes who drive in a manner that put children at risk

Notice a pattern there?

I wasn't planning on cranking out the War and Peace/Atlas Shrugged double feature, but here we are.

 

[Ingomike]

This has been proven wrong multiple times with HOAs having rules and forcing them to go through their businesses, like yard care, mailboxes, house repairs to get approved, etc.

Here you go. Already done. See. I'm willing to provide sources.

There is no allegation of anyone being forced to go through “their” business in the article.

If the HOA was in the wrong, of which absolutely no details were provided concerning the covenants, or even the rational for the verdict, they should have lost.


This sounds like an anti-gunner, one was bad so all are bad.

 

[Ingomike]

Way less in every other organization.
HOAs are completely unnecessary.

Then don’t join one.

 

[Ingomike]

Yes. I was on an HOA board, I think it was probably ~1990ish. My purpose was to vote no on all the stupid Karen **** they wanted to control and convince as many board members as possible to vote against. I just wish we had the name "Karen" for nosy controlling people then.


If an HOA can't find enough people to be on the board, it may be because you have decent neighbors who live and let live. Or, maybe it's a rare board that hasn't pulled any stupid ********, so the non-conformists in the neighborhood aren't compelled to get on the board.



I've lived on a small lot in neighborhoods without an HOA. The blades of grass on a given lawn may not have all been the exact height as everyone else's, but all and all, property values didn't suffer for it. There were already local ordinances against the usual stuff. No cars on blocks. No fences above a certain height. Etcetera.

If you don't like it, petition for an ordiance or stfu. But, if you petition for it, people get to argue to defend against your controlling whims. You live in a neighborhood with an HOA, they get to impose all kinds of nonsense. HOA's are an unnecessary Karen magnet.

Your one time personal experience is not proof that others are the same. Actually, after reading some of these posters here, many on INGO lack the temperament to be in an HOA based on the fears expressed. Some of them don’t even belong on the streets that others may ride a bike on…

 

[Ingomike]

I think there should be some limits to contracts, for example, in an obvious Hobson's choice situation.

Got it. No limits can be placed on ownership but limits can be placed on contacts that limit ownership…

 

[Ingomike]

You believe Americans can own property when the reality is that we cannot, not on U.S. soil anyway.

You also believe someone should maintain rights of ownership after they no longer own something. I agree with you that if I want to sell five acres of my land to someone we should be legally allowed to sign whatever agreement the parties wish. Where we differ is that once someone buys something, you believe the previous owner should be allowed some control over that property.

You say: “if I want to sell five acres of my land to someone we should be legally allowed to sign whatever agreement the parties wish”

What if in that contract they agree not to raise pigs?

Because then you say: “Where we differ is that once someone buys something, you believe the previous owner should be allowed some control over that property”

That is contradictory. They either can do ANYTHING in the contract or the seller is limited to how and what they sell.

I bet if a farmer posted ten acre plots for sale, but, the farmer retained the buyers right to raise pigs on that land it would still sell in a heartbeat even to most on INGO.

You also keep harping that its a choice when for most, if actually given that choice they would choose not to have an HOA.

You guys keep acting like a HOA is a mythical perpetual immovable being. Every HOA has in its bylaws the procedure for changing the covenants and rules. EVERYONE in an HOA can get together to change and even abolish the HOA. There is no proof of people organizing to do so on a mass scale, even though they are given that choice.

Everyone knows this so rather than selling all of the homes in a new subdivision then forming an HOA that the actual owners can vote on, they form what they want before hand and it becomes a take it or leave it affair. That isn't the freedom to choose and we all know why it doesn't happen like that.

The developers put them in place to protect their investment from the Clampett‘s and not being able to sell the lots around them. The homeowners have the ability to do anything they wish, including abolish the HOA, once the developer turns over the HOA to them, usually at 80%-90% built out. I doubt a subdivision would get 20% to vote for abolishing the HOA.

 

[Ingomike]

A problem with joining a neighborhood with HOA's is that when you move in, things seem sane. The composition of boards change. And when Karens become HOA presidents, **** gets real pretty quick. You might be fine with the idea of HOA's. Everything is fine for a few years. Then you start getting nasty-grams because of some nit-picky **** someone found in the covenants to harass you with. Because they can.

And there's not a lot you can do about it. You can sue the board. But the covenants usually has language requiring disputes go to arbitration. Which usually sides with the institution over individuals, right or wrong. It's why institutions prefer arbitration, not just because arbitration is cheaper than a court fight. They have a better chance of getting a favorable decision with arbitration than with juries.

This is a parallel track to those that complain about the political “parties“ candidates in the general election even though they complainer did nothing to get a candidate they would like. If you do not want a board of Mrs. Karvitz then get sane people to do it. But alas, most sane folks don’t want to do it. There is also a likely parallel to this also, hard times make strong men:

Mrs. Karvitz makes trouble, the sane must fix it, once fixed the sane get complacent, complacency begats Mrs. Karvitz…

 

[firecadet613]

Post #486 was from me yesterday morning (at 0759) thanking everyone for keeping it between the ditches. 614 minus 486 = 128 posts in just over 24 hours (OK 3 were mine and at least 1 of the 3 was funny.)

Edit: math is now wrong since there were a bunch added.

This thread got in the ditch a few times but it's back on the road now.

I'm trying to stay neutral in this one since I'm a staff member and an HOA board VP (best job to have, unless the President gets hit by a bus I don't have a lot of responsibilities.)

I grew up on a farm 7 miles from the nearest highway. In 21+ years in the USAF we spent 14 years living on-base. 3.5 years of this was Fort Walton Beach, Florida (read that as HOA Hell) and 4 years was at Langley AFB, Virginia (Hampton Roads area, HOAs were worse than Florida. No kidding, my wife worked for an HOA management company.) We've lived in a subdivision with 83 homes (we were the 10th home in the neighborhood) since 2008. I have observed a lot over the years.

The developer had control of the HOA until we hit a certain number of houses in 2012. My wife was on the initial board with homeowners (had the experience, that'll teach her) and I'm glad she was.

At some point we realized one of us has to be on the board because "we aren't crazy." Most of the other board members weren't crazy either. Note I said most, not all.

Mowing/landscaping contract for the common area, pond maintenance, liability insurance, electric bill, water bill, sprinkler system. Not real exciting but necessary. Not free either.

We do our best to keep the bills paid within the current budget. Everything has gotten more expensive so that's not always an option.

Our board has been one short (4 instead of 5) for a couple years because nobody else has raised their hand. One lot/one vote so you can't have two from the same house on the board. Maybe they think we (the 4 of us, none are retired, all work full time, I'm the only empty nester) are doing ok.

A covenant is a legally binding agreement. I've always viewed it as a limitation on the HOA as well. Kind of like how the Constitution limits the government.

People on a HOA board:

- People who aren't crazy and know it is important

- People pushing an agenda and bail as soon as they get/don't get what they want

- People who are retired and bored (not bad to have 1 of those, but don't let them take over)

- People who don't have a management style as much as they have personality disorders

Now the other people in the neighborhood:

- Want to live their lives and be left alone (this is the majority)

- ***holes

- ***holes whose children are ***holes

- Clinically insane ***holes

- ***holes who park in a manner that won't allow emergency vehicles to get through

- ***holes who drive in a manner that put children at risk

Notice a pattern there?

I wasn't planning on cranking out the War and Peace/Atlas Shrugged double feature, but here we are.

Good post, Kelly.

I was just going to mention something you already did.

For those that say No HOAs, how do you handle common area maintenance (mowing green space), trail maintenance, pool maintenance (and paying a life guard), bathhouse maintenance, tennis/basketball court upkeep (seems backboards and tennis court nets keep getting damaged).

An outsourced management company was hired in my previous neighborhood, but like most HOAs there was a board made up of elected community members.

Let's go into the hypothetical now. The HOA is no more. How is that funded and maintained? You guys just killed the HOA! And by trails I don't mean city sidewalks, but paved 3' wide trails through the greenspace (which most newer, planned out subdivisions have).

Help me understand your thought process on how these items are maintained and upkeep is performed.

 

[Ingomike]

I am trying to wrap my head around the oxymoron that keeps getting expressed here.

There can be no limits on ownership of property until the owner is ready to sell that property and then there are limits to how the owner can sell and what rights the owner coveys.

 

[repeter1977]

Avoid like the plague and you're good. What's the problem?

You have to sign the covenants when you close on the property. It shouldn't be a surprise on closing day. If it is, FIRE your buyers agent!

It's a legally binding contract between consenting adults, if you don't like it, don't sign. Simple as that.

It's apparent from your previous posts you don't understand real estate law and what's legal, not just hypothetical BS people are posting.

Again, the most sought after neighborhoods in Indy/suburbs have HOAs.

Again, I'm addressing the point of the initial post. It's why INGO doesn't like HOA. I've brought my reasons why, backed up with factual stories but neither of you read the articles or watch the videos others post. So, I'll ask you and maybe you'll answer.
What's the point of asking the question you don't want the answer to?
This post could have been named, HOAs are amazing and here's why, and everyone would be happy. Instead the question is asked, everyone is answering then getting attacked for it.
Congratulations on the Indy HOAs being sought after, but is that because of the HOA or the property aka in spite of the HOA? Honestly, it could be both even.
As for the hypothetical, posting researched articles about what's happened proves it's literally not hypothetical because it happened.
Also, thank you for the advice about not signing for an HOA. I most likely wouldn't have previously, but this thread has proven without a doubt I'll never live in one.

 

[repeter1977]

Your one time personal experience is not proof that others are the same. Actually, after reading some of these posters here, many on INGO lack the temperament to be in an HOA based on the fears expressed. Some of them don’t even belong on the streets that others may ride a bike on…

Wait, let's get this straight.
Your personal experience is proof, but other's experience going the other way isn't?
People posting researched articles and videos isn't proof either, just your experience counts?

Yes, there are definitely people on this thread that don't have the temperament for sure but we disagree on which ones.
Hope you have a wonderful day.

 

[repeter1977]

Good post, Kelly.

I was just going to mention something you already did.

For those that say No HOAs, how do you handle common area maintenance (mowing green space), trail maintenance, pool maintenance (and paying a life guard), bathhouse maintenance, tennis/basketball court upkeep (seems backboards and tennis court nets keep getting damaged).

An outsourced management company was hired in my previous neighborhood, but like most HOAs there was a board made up of elected community members.

Let's go into the hypothetical now. The HOA is no more. How is that funded and maintained? You guys just killed the HOA! And by trails I don't mean city sidewalks, but paved 3' wide trails through the greenspace (which most newer, planned out subdivisions have).

Help me understand your thought process on how these items are maintained and upkeep is performed.

Easy solution. How are those areas handled in no HOAs? Because plenty of parks and playgrounds not in HOAs, so how do they do it?

 

[jamil]

If you were on the HOA board, does that make you Karen or Chad?

No. I was there to vote against Karens on the board. I was happy to vote against the the ones who wanted to persecute a homeowner for having her fence with the "ugly" side out. There was nothing in the bylaws about it, but the Karens on the board didn't like it.

No need to gender it BTW. Karens conveys the meaning for both. Calling a dude a Karen implies some other things besides being an unhinged controlling busybody.

 

[jamil]

What's the problem?

HOA's shouldn't exist.

 

[Creedmoor]

HOA's only work when most of the owners stay involved.
My Aunt that lives in Sardis Shores in Mississippi has been a home owner about 30+ years now. When they first bought it was all kept pretty nice, and had a HOA that was like 10 bucks a year with a 100 or so lots that were SUBDIVIDED from the large farm into 1/4th of an acre to over 150 acres.
The building rules are pretty simple, septic tank first, then you can get an electric permit for a pedestal.
Put your rv, tent, yardbarn, pole barn, single to triple wide, or build a home and move in.
What has happened since I was a kid is maybe a dozen or so have turned to

The Corp of Engineers doesn't get involved and the complaints have to go through the county.
The County doesn't do much with yards like this in Panola County, Mississippi.



Right around the curve is a nice good sized farm.

Across the street and around the next curve is this entrance.


If they could have kept the HOA do you think some of the 20+ empty, burned out, roof collapsed junk ridden property's would look like they do?

I believe a few members here have fished Sardis's upper lake.

 

[jamil]

and at least 1 of the 3 was funny.

I dunno. Let me search for that...

Edit: confirmed.

 

[phylodog]

If HOAs were of more benefit to all than reward to the entitled they could and would be organized by the actual owners of the property and not the previous owner.