Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[Ingomike]

True ownership means I should be able to own it free and clear.

Generational commitments degrade ownership.

Those that are in favor of HOAs must also be in favor of property taxes since when the property was bought, the contract with the state was in place that during the ownership period, the state can impose its will on you.

That is not how real life works. Why do you want to take freedom away from property owners?

 

[1776goat]

What the heck is wrong with folks if similar goals agreeing to how they will live together? But those that are selfish cannot see that as an agreement, they see it as limiting their choices all while they want to limit others choices and restrict land owners of their freedoms.

Those goals are subjective almost always. Most of these "goals" are not as clear and universally understood as say a property line, to a new home buyer. Even if agreed upon. Often times subjectivly understood and subjectivly enforced. I find it Ironic and bizare to say those NOT in favour of HOA's are the side that wants to restrict land owners.

 

[Ingomike]

My home/property is worth 90% more than I paid 5.5 years ago. That’s a larger increase than the last house I lived for 15 years with an HOA.

Your property value increased so dramatically because your politicians decided to print trillions of dollars, not because it’s actually more valuable. HOAs certainly can contribute to maintaining property values but they certainly aren’t a necessity. Plenty of properties in the north Meridian street corridor in Indy serve as prime examples. 10th acre lots for blocks and blocks which have been impressively maintained for decades without needing babysitters.

Your property values have gone up as people flee cities for rural areas. You chose the unequivocally leftist and snootiest area as an example of success without an HOA?

 

[Skip Schippers]

No entitlement here, I knew about the HOA when I bought that place (as does everyone when they buy into a subdivision with a HOA). How does that make me entitled? I knew the rules (and even broke some)...

Even if you buy the subdivision lot next to you (typically 0.25ac) next to you, it doesn't give you much protection...

I sold both my HOA places and now can't see my neighbors, have my own personal lake, and just took the boys out back shooting.

As I've said before HOAs have their place and they aren't for everyone...

But I'm a fan. Being in an HOA kept my neighborhood up and certainly helped maintain my property value as I sold it for 2.5x more than I paid...


Those dues aren't bad. We had about 400 homes and paid $120/qtr. Plenty of grass needed to be maintained, every year they replaced some trees, and of course the pool, pool house, playground, and tennis court upkeeps. I never did join the board, talk about a thankless job with hands that are often tied...

You aren’t kidding about a thank less job we just had our annual meeting with city council man showing up and two women came to the meeting complaining about everything. They basically expected board members to drive around and give out notices for things against covenant like garbage can on side of home and weeds along home. They were told maybe they should take part in their community and help neighbors and that board members don’t get paid to do it and why don’t they give up some of their time their answer was they are to busy but not to busy to bitch

 

[Ingomike]

Entitlement is telling another man what to do with his dirt. Especially for your own monetary gain. Also you sold your HOA properties for your own lake and freedom to shoot. The rest of your take is fluff to the facts. Respectfully.

So you would strip a property owner of their freedom to sell their property as they see fit because they must sell it to you a certain way?

Back in 2006 a farmer I know sold his farm to a developer right before the boom went bust. He put a restriction only certain types of buildings could be built and that he could farm the land cheap until the building permits were approved, He is still farming it cheap. Why would we take that freedom away?

I have given other variables, mineral rights, air rights, to show that land can be sold under a myriad of ways, and the freedom is to be able to sell your land in any way you want. The selfishness and entitlement is from those that want to strip away those freedoms so they get what they want.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I would like to thank everyone for keeping this thread fairly well between the ditches. It’s a bit of a contentious subject, and there’s strong feelings on it as there are with a lot of things here.

 

[areamike]

I'll never live in an area that has an HOA. The Government oversteps enough. I don't want another entity telling me what I can or can't do with my property regardless of the agreed terms. As for living in a neighborhood with " junkyard neighbors? Cars on blocks? Yards not mowed? Houses in visible disrepair?", choose where you live wisely. What idiot would buy a house in a crappy neighborhood and then complain? The same one who buys in an HOA and complains essentially.

My neighbors are right next to me where I live. No trash, no un-mowed lawns, no late night parties etc. I chose wisely. It's not hard.

 

[Ingomike]

You are asking why a forum dedicated to firearms ownership has a bias against a group of authoritarian people telling them what to do. Your question is its own answer.



This is a good summary ^

This is simple. Is the flag flying in the covenants? If yes, then the vet agreed to it and is reneging. If not the board is exceeding their authority.

 

[1776goat]

So you would strip a property owner of their freedom to sell their property as they see fit because they must sell it to you a certain way?

Back in 2006 a farmer I know sold his farm to a developer right before the boom went bust. He put a restriction only certain types of buildings could be built and that he could farm the land cheap until the building permits were approved, He is still farming it cheap. Why would we take that freedom away?

I have given other variables, mineral rights, air rights, to show that land can be sold under a myriad of ways, and the freedom is to be able to sell your land in any way you want. The selfishness and entitlement is from those that want to strip away those freedoms so they get what they want.

Im not in favor of "stripping" anyone of any rights. I just find HOA's Unamerican in there typical value and not for me or many. Im not advocating for them to be made illegal, I am simply sharing my opinion and understanding of them based on my expierence along with those of friends. Using that perspective to call a Spade a Spade. If you want to sell your property with a lake you built and keep access rights to the lake, do it. If you have a spring on the property you sell and want to maintain ownership of the spring, sure. If you want to keep mineral rights or air rights to your property you sell, ok. I don't think that your examples are typical of what an HOA member expierences. "Hey vote just came in, everyone needs to install this type of shutter on their windows." "Hey vote came in, no parking on the street after 9." "Hey vote came in " Pop up campers are now considered RV's and cant be in one's drive." Hey vote came in and your kayak and canoe rack on your propery is clearly a structure for boats which are not aloud. " Hey your porch light is amber and not acceptable." "Hey your new fence is over 5ft and not made of wood and will have to be taken down." All these will be subject to fines if not changed. I am glad your expierence in being part of an HOA has been great. You are a minority in my expierence.

 

[phylodog]

Your property values have gone up as people flee cities for rural areas. You chose the unequivocally leftist and snootiest area as an example of success without an HOA?

Leftist and snootiest? Do you know what you’re talking about? I’m a long way from Bloomington and you’d be hard pressed to find a liberal within several miles of where I live. Kids drive tractors to school here and bale hay in the summer.

 

[firecadet613]

Yes, yes, that is how things should work. I’ve been brought into the light…..

How they should work, or how they currently work? I didn't think we were discussing a utopia, but real world situations...

I'll never live in an area that has an HOA. The Government oversteps enough. I don't want another entity telling me what I can or can't do with my property regardless of the agreed terms. As for living in a neighborhood with " junkyard neighbors? Cars on blocks? Yards not mowed? Houses in visible disrepair?", choose where you live wisely. What idiot would buy a house in a crappy neighborhood and then complain? The same one who buys in an HOA and complains essentially.

My neighbors are right next to me where I live. No trash, no un-mowed lawns, no late night parties etc. I chose wisely. It's not hard.

I haven't experienced that, but I chose wisely and the HOA helped guard against it. What's your recourse?

You mean to tell me many now rundown neighborhoods used to not be immaculate?

You chose the unequivocally leftist and snootiest area as an example of success without an HOA?

Too funny!

So you would strip a property owner of their freedom to sell their property as they see fit because they must sell it to you a certain way?

Back in 2006 a farmer I know sold his farm to a developer right before the boom went bust. He put a restriction only certain types of buildings could be built and that he could farm the land cheap until the building permits were approved, He is still farming it cheap. Why would we take that freedom away?

I have given other variables, mineral rights, air rights, to show that land can be sold under a myriad of ways, and the freedom is to be able to sell your land in any way you want. The selfishness and entitlement is from those that want to strip away those freedoms so they get what they want.

It's amazing how many folks live in lala land and don't understand how the real world works. I made sure to receive my mineral rights, knew my easements, neighbors, and county ordinances when I bought. @dieselrealtor wasn't my realtor, but sounds like the realtor I used was just as sharp and knowledgeable as he is!

There are many haters (and fans) of HOAs. They served my purpose well (and I understood their limitations). I paid my quarterly dues, paid to keep my boat stored indoors off site (something I could not do on my small parcel), and kept riff raff (as someone else put it) to a minimum. We did, as I'm sure many do, have folks who tried not to leave the trailer behind and the HOA helped require they "clean it up".

Now that I'm past the HOA and have my land, the focus is on the properties we border. As soon as they get listed (or maybe even before), we'll buy them out, increasing our buffer space.

Now, not everyone can afford to do that or live 1+hrs from a major city, so the HOA provides that protection.

 

[Ingomike]

You mean the people who buy and own the property? Oh no, wait… you mean the guy who used to own the property. Oh, now I get it, makes perfect sense. If I sell you my corvette, it’s my right as the previous owner to limit how fast the new owner can drive it.

Yes, yes, that is how things should work. I’ve been brought into the light…..

Can you answer a simple question? In your world should a land owner be able to sell mineral rights or air rights to someone else or must the owner convey only the entire property rights?

 

[Ingomike]

Leftist and snootiest? Do you know what you’re talking about? I’m a long way from Bloomington and you’d be hard pressed to find a liberal within several miles of where I live.

That was about Meridian Kessler area on north Meridian…

 

[firecadet613]

Im not in favor of "stripping" anyone of any rights. I just find HOA's Unamerican in there typical value and not for me or many. Im not advocating for them to be made illegal, I am simply sharing my opinion and understanding of them based on my expierence along with those of friends. Using that perspective to call a Spade a Spade. If you want to sell your property with a lake you built and keep access rights to the lake, do it. If you have a spring on the property you sell and want to maintain ownership of the spring, sure. If you want to keep mineral rights or air rights to your property you sell, ok. I don't think that your examples are typical of what an HOA member expierences. "Hey vote just came in, everyone needs to install this type of shutter on their windows." "Hey vote came in, no parking on the street after 9." "Hey vote came in " Pop up campers are now considered RV's and cant be in one's drive." Hey vote came in and your kayak and canoe rack on your propery is clearly a structure for boats which are not aloud. " Hey your porch light is amber and not acceptable." "Hey your new fence is over 5ft and not made of wood and will have to be taken down." All these will be subject to fines if not changed. I am glad your expierence in being part of an HOA has been great. You are a minority in my expierence.

Wow, where did you live where they voted in new rules? In 15yrs at my last house, the biggest issue was getting enough votes/proxies in to be able to pass a budget and normal items. Exactly zero new rules were passed while I lived there.

And yes, I had to get HOA approval to put up my fence and flag pole, but I knew that going in...

 

[phylodog]

That was about Meridian Kessler area on north Meridian…

Oh, you mean the small lot, million dollar home area which has somehow managed to maintain value without neighborhood nannies pissing in everyone’s ear about their bird bath colors?

Ah. Yeah, pretty left and snooty down there. Pretty opposite out here. Hmm, I guess only some of the population can’t be trusted with their own choices.

 

[Ingomike]

HOA leadership attracts fascists, i know, i escaped from one! There is a saying which is true and you'll have heard it. "POWER CORRUPTS GOOD MEN". Giving power, to what formally was a good man, unleashes the ugly fascist beast within him. The HOA i escaped from, illegally was fining ppl, inventing rules the orginal charter did not give them power. So i escaped~
Now on my 12 arces, i can shoot my guns off my deck, naked even if i want. I can burn my trash. My office is on my land and i have walked back acrossed my parking lot in the evening just wearing sandals LOL. Never said it was a pretty site LOL. But i'm FREE to do what the F i want on MY LAND.

Sadly human nature still is present but the power is still in the hands of the owners, it is what they choose to do.

 

[firecadet613]

Oh, you mean the small lot, million dollar home area which has somehow managed to maintain value without neighborhood nannies pissing in everyone’s ear about their bird bath colors?

Ah. Yeah, pretty left and snooty down there. Pretty opposite out here. Hmm, I guess only some of the population can’t be trusted with their own choices.

How many folks who can afford million dollar homes would do things to them outside the norms (that HOA covenants prevent)?

 

[Ingomike]

Oh, you mean the small lot, million dollar home area which has somehow managed to maintain value without neighborhood nannies pissing in everyone’s ear about their bird bath colors?

Ah. Yeah, pretty left and snooty down there. Pretty opposite out here. Hmm, I guess only some of the population can’t be trusted with their own choices.

Are you aware they have used the power of government to mimic an HOA in some ways by creating historical districts in that area. So they have the neighborhood nannies there too.

 

[firecadet613]

Are you aware they have used the power of government to mimic an HOA in some ways by creating historical districts in that area. So they have the neighborhood nannies there too.

So is a historical district, like an HOA on steroids (with the power of .gov behind them)?

 

[Ingomike]

I made sure to receive my mineral rights, knew my easements, neighbors, and county ordinances when I bought. @dieselrealtor wasn't my realtor, but sounds like the realtor I used was just as sharp and knowledgeable as he is!

And folks, if at all possible use a title company you or your agent choose as the buyer no matter what they tell you is the custom for the area, or at worst have the documents reviewed to see any deed restrictions there may be…