Why Do So Many On INGO Hate HOA's?

[Ingomike]

So when covenants are added or changed by less than a 100% agreement of homeowners, those that voted no do not have the new covenants enforced upon them? Changes made after I buy and do not agree with, when enforced infringe on my freedom.

That is also part of the agreement and a risk one takes if they sign the agreement. The bylaws stipulate the process for changes and is part of the agreement. Again the choice to buy a property without covenants exists.

 

[Mgderf]

Again the choice to buy a property without covenants exists.

In my very best Mr. Spock voice,

"This would be the only logical choice..."

 

[Bosshoss]

Homes in communities with HOAs tend to be worth 5% to 6% more than similar homes without an HOA, according to data from the Cato Institute, a public policy research think tank

Works both ways as homes cost more in a HOA when buying. It's not like you are making more when you sell.
Need to take into account the HOA fees you pay while you live there as a hit on the equity you build.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Works both ways as homes cost more in a HOA when buying. It's not like you are making more when you sell.
Need to take into account the HOA fees you pay while you live there as a hit on the equity you build.

And storage costs if you own a boat or an RV/camping trailer.

 

[BugI02]

So a family selling grandpa’s farm cannot create a covenant attached to the deed that keeps the forest grandpa planted and is buried in a forest?

Every buyer in a subdivision would negotiate their covenants? How would that work? The new owner agrees to the terms of the covenants by accepting the deed to which they are attached and in the case of a mortgage they also sign they will abide by the covenants as a term of the loan. The negotiations are do you want the property as it is with covenants or not, that is the choice…

Hobson's choice
noun
1 an apparently free choice when there is no real alternative

2 the necessity of accepting one of two or more equally objectionable alternatives

 

[phylodog]

Anyone changed their mind yet?

 

[BugI02]

I have never known of any serious effort to abolish an HOA that to me would be an indication that lack of effort is not indicative the people don’t like them.

“Even Science Says So If you are still on the fence about buying a home within an HOA, let science make your decision for you. According to a study conducted at George Mason University, an HOA can increase property values. In fact, the study found that, on average, a house within an HOA community sells for about 5% to 6% higher than a house that does not belong to one.”​

“Homes in communities with HOAs tend to be worth 5% to 6% more than similar homes without an HOA, according to data from the Cato Institute, a public policy research think tank.”

Study: Homeowners Associations Are Booming

The number of HOAs is expected to grow by 3,000 in 2024 alone, according to new data, which will add to homeownership costs for residents.

www.nar.realtor

How Does An HOA Increase Property Values? | Cedar Management

Buying a home is one of the biggest decisions in your life, so choose one situated in an HOA. But, how does an HOA increase property values? Find out here!

www.cedarmanagementgroup.com

Why do you believe they are so difficult to alter/dissolve? The only difficulty is getting the required number of members to agree to alter/dissolve them that I see. Last time I was involved in that process we had our attorney write up what we wanted, presented it to the members, they all signed off on it and it was amended and recorded. The entire process was a couple of months. BTW, it was making rental properties not allowed, with a hardship provision that could be applied for by longer term owners.

If the majority don’t like them, why do those neighborhoods sell for higher prices for similar homes?



Most people today want intermediaries. I value the protection of the covenants more than the limitations they put on me in typical suburban neighborhoods because I have seen what people will do without covenants. With home prices averaging $400,000 the risk of them hurting my value is greater than the limitations.


Seems a fair assessment of the situation. It is a trade off between knowing the limitations placed on all members and living with those limitations yourself.

Residential rules: How Americans view HOAs and their influence | YouGov

Despite the public's qualms regarding HOAs, one in five Americans currently live in an HOA-governed community, and one in three have lived in one at some point.

today.yougov.com

Most Americans — 61% — say they would prefer to live in a neighborhood without an HOA; 14% would prefer to live with one, and 24% have no preference or aren't sure. Just 35% of people who currently live in an HOA-governed neighborhood say they prefer to live in one, while 49% say they would prefer not to.

 

[Ingomike]

In my very best Mr. Spock voice,

"This would be the only logical choice..."

Maybe you have not had some of the type of neighbors I have had to endure.

 

[Ingomike]

Works both ways as homes cost more in a HOA when buying. It's not like you are making more when you sell.
Need to take into account the HOA fees you pay while you live there as a hit on the equity you build.

So you pay 5%-6% more and get appreciation on that too.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Maybe you have not had some of the type of neighbors I have had to endure.

That's kind of why you don't buy houses sight unseen. You cruise around the neighborhood to get a feel for the type of neighbors you will have if you buy a house there. If you "endured" them, you endured them by choice, right?

 

[Ingomike]

Residential rules: How Americans view HOAs and their influence | YouGov

Despite the public's qualms regarding HOAs, one in five Americans currently live in an HOA-governed community, and one in three have lived in one at some point.

today.yougov.com

Most Americans — 61% — say they would prefer to live in a neighborhood without an HOA; 14% would prefer to live with one, and 24% have no preference or aren't sure. Just 35% of people who currently live in an HOA-governed neighborhood say they prefer to live in one, while 49% say they would prefer not to.

View attachment 360570

Then why does research show when they get out their wallets they are willing to pay more? Maybe they answer that question like gun owners do when asked how many guns they own.

Didn't you say you live in an HOA?

 

[Ingomike]

That's kind of why you don't buy houses sight unseen. You cruise around the neighborhood to get a feel for the type of neighbors you will have if you buy a house there.

But you can’t choose who moves in later…

 

[Ingomike]

Anyone changed their mind yet?

Is that your goal? Mine is to explain to others what HOA’s and covenants are and how they work.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

But you can’t choose who moves in later…

True enough. We had a crazy guy that was totally awful move in next door to us. He lasted about 2 years until the neighbors complained about him to authorities and his house was foreclosed on by the bank and he moved. Now we have a wonderful family that improved the property and are a joy to have living next door. All without a HOA.

 

[phylodog]

Is that your goal? Mine is to explain to others what HOA’s and covenants are and how they work.

Pretty sure we all understand your goals of convincing everyone they simply aren’t smart enough to appreciate things like property taxes and HOAs. I simply asked the question to gauge your success to this point.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Mike, what happens to your opinion of HOA's when they pass a no flags or no firearms rule?
Karen across the street sees you carrying a rifle case out to the car or a pistol on your belt, then what?

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Mike, what happens to your opinion of HOA's when they pass a no flags or no firearms rule?
Karen across the street sees you carrying a rifle case out to the car or a pistol on your belt, then what?

My guess is that he puts his flag away, stops OC'ing and makes sure to load his car when the garage door is closed (probably required by the HOA anyhow). I mean, he agreed to those things up front, so...

 

[jkaetz]

Hobson's choice
noun
1 an apparently free choice when there is no real alternative

2 the necessity of accepting one of two or more equally objectionable alternatives

There is more and more of this in everything we do. Just look at the EULAs attached to practically everything (cars, phones, appliances, services, etc...) we buy. Most of them allow the manufacturer to do whatever they want and we can't touch them. The justification for this is always "You have a choice to buy from a different manufacturer/service provider." but when all of them are doing it there is no choice. I haven't looked but I'm willing to bet there aren't many new homes being built outside of an HOA.

 

[Creedmoor]

Have you ever watched a modern neighborhood (since the 90’s) be built? They sure as hell don’t plop houses down on the topography of whatever was there like they used to. The earth moves work for weeks to sculpt the neighborhood to precise plans.

I have seen all the houses that were plopped down in a farm field that flood from a rain…

And I'll say it again, you haven't driven around America before. If you had, you would know most of what you are saying just isn't true.

 

[phylodog]

Nothing to worry about. At some point there will be enough people fed up with the Karens that the federal government will just step in for oversight. Then things will get even betterer.

My great grand children will risk a felony conviction for choosing from the wrong color palette for their carpet.