What's up with the rebel flags?

[El Cazador]

FTFY!

Poor Ann never had that much meat on her bones.

 

[Cygnus]

FTFY!

OMG Thank You!

Ann Coullter kinda has too square a jaw for my tastes!


Now if you can find a shot of Jaime Pressly like that ........

 

[Joe Williams]

Please professor, hand out some knowledge.......

still waiting........

I thought about letting you do your own research, but I'll help you out. But I seriously suggest cracking some history books before engaging in discussions about history.

The Declaration of Independence was written before the American Revolution. It was directed at the King of England, and had nothing to do with American forts, of which there weren't any at the time it was written. They were all English. The Civil War took place more than eight decades later.

The South was fighting for state's rights. The federal government was coopting power the Constitution did not give it, in fact it was assuming powers specifically prohibited. You may see much discussion about exactly that today, because by waging a war for which it had no Constitutional basis, the federal government threw the document away, and ever since has increasingly treated as an obstacle, not the law of the land.

Factually, slavery was already dying in the South, desperately held on to by a few rich men. It was economically un-viable, and the vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and in fact resented the institution because it deprived them of jobs and potential land ownership. Slavery was more popular among Northerners because slaves did not hold jobs the whites wanted. They held the same jobs many of today's illegal immigrants hold, and for the same reason... no one else would do the work. Cold hard facts are, slavery would have been dead in the South within a couple decades, and racism would not have been as rampant as it ended up being among a bitter and defeated people forced into a government no longer ruled by the Constitution, and which they wanted no part of. To this day, many Southerners view themselves as living in occupied territory. There is good reason so many military bases are in the South as compared to the rest of the country. It took some work to convince my wife and son that I was dead serious about not letting anyone know they are decendents of Abe Lincoln... they would not have been regarded kindly. My wife takes great pride in her heritage, it may distress her a tad that I share the common southern view that Abe Lincoln and his trampling of the Constitution makes him the true traitor.

Ironically, I think that had the war not been fought, had Abe Lincoln followed the Constitution and allowed the Confederate states to seceed, the Union would be stronger now, and it would certainly be more free. We would not be looking at the distinct possibility of fighting a second civil war, we would not be seeing states trying to reassert rights they hold under the Constitution but will never regain in fact without resort to force. The South had no industrial or economic basis at the time, no way to stand on their own. They would have HAD to rejoin the Union, and we would today be living in a free land governed by Constitutional law.

Again, as I pointed out earlier, had the war been about slavery, the Emancipation Proclamation would have freed all slaves. Instead, despite what Northern historians have re-written it to mean, it left the institution of slavery intact in the north. It was intended to weaken the South by depriving them of their slaves. Of course, the Southern economy was already a shambles, and slavery was a small portion of it, but the words sure do sound good, despite not meaning what people today think it did.

 

[Cygnus]

Please professor, hand out some knowledge.......

still waiting........

The Declaration of Independance pre-dates the US Civil War by over 80 years........

C'mon man!



Edit: Sorry Joe I couldn't wait....

 

[IDCC]

 

[groovatron]

Wait.....what??????

yes....big mistake on my part.......what I meant was Lincoln's declaration of war....

 

[groovatron]

I am not a history major (minor but not major) but I think you mean the emancipation proclamation.

Correct sir....I screwed that one up. Thanks guys. Honest mistake. I am no history buff. I just fail to see how slavery had "little to do with the civil war."

 

[Joe Williams]

yes....big mistake on my part.......what I meant was Lincoln's declaration of war....

Well, that does make more sense LOL

But I sure did end up wasting an awful lot of time typing

 

[infidel]

Well, that does make more sense LOL

But I sure did end up wasting an awful lot of time typing

You're on a board talking to 7,000 people you don't know past midnight and you're worried about wasting time lol.

 

[Dryden]

Well, that does make more sense LOL

But I sure did end up wasting an awful lot of time typing

But, we all learned a little something here tonight.

A little give & take is healthy.

 

[groovatron]

I thought about letting you do your own research, but I'll help you out. But I seriously suggest cracking some history books before engaging in discussions about history.

The Declaration of Independence was written before the American Revolution. It was directed at the King of England, and had nothing to do with American forts, of which there weren't any at the time it was written. They were all English. The Civil War took place more than eight decades later.

The South was fighting for state's rights. The federal government was coopting power the Constitution did not give it, in fact it was assuming powers specifically prohibited. You may see much discussion about exactly that today, because by waging a war for which it had no Constitutional basis, the federal government threw the document away, and ever since has increasingly treated as an obstacle, not the law of the land.

Factually, slavery was already dying in the South, desperately held on to by a few rich men. It was economically un-viable, and the vast majority of Southerners did not own slaves and in fact resented the institution because it deprived them of jobs and potential land ownership. Slavery was more popular among Northerners because slaves did not hold jobs the whites wanted. They held the same jobs many of today's illegal immigrants hold, and for the same reason... no one else would do the work. Cold hard facts are, slavery would have been dead in the South within a couple decades, and racism would not have been as rampant as it ended up being among a bitter and defeated people forced into a government no longer ruled by the Constitution, and which they wanted no part of. To this day, many Southerners view themselves as living in occupied territory. There is good reason so many military bases are in the South as compared to the rest of the country. It took some work to convince my wife and son that I was dead serious about not letting anyone know they are decendents of Abe Lincoln... they would not have been regarded kindly. My wife takes great pride in her heritage, it may distress her a tad that I share the common southern view that Abe Lincoln and his trampling of the Constitution makes him the true traitor.

Ironically, I think that had the war not been fought, had Abe Lincoln followed the Constitution and allowed the Confederate states to seceed, the Union would be stronger now, and it would certainly be more free. We would not be looking at the distinct possibility of fighting a second civil war, we would not be seeing states trying to reassert rights they hold under the Constitution but will never regain in fact without resort to force. The South had no industrial or economic basis at the time, no way to stand on their own. They would have HAD to rejoin the Union, and we would today be living in a free land governed by Constitutional law.

Again, as I pointed out earlier, had the war been about slavery, the Emancipation Proclamation would have freed all slaves. Instead, despite what Northern historians have re-written it to mean, it left the institution of slavery intact in the north. It was intended to weaken the South by depriving them of their slaves. Of course, the Southern economy was already a shambles, and slavery was a small portion of it, but the words sure do sound good, despite not meaning what people today think it did.

So cold hard facts are now speculation of what would have happened?


For the record, I will again admit my mistake about the Declaration of Independence.......Originally, I was just pointing out that the statement "slavery had little to do with the Civil War" was absurd. I agree that there was alot more to it (check my post before this dispute). If slavery was no big deal in the matter, then the 13th ammendment wouldn't have been a result of the outcome.

 

[Ol'Bluesmoke]

I agree with you Groovatron...one hundred percent!

+1

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

There was some good discussion on this subject here...

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/52822-confederate_flag.html

 

[groovatron]

I agree with you Groovatron...one hundred percent!

+1

Thank you sir....I think we have all settled for civility in this thread......pun intended

 

[dice dealer]

You're on a board talking to 7,000 people you don't know past midnight and you're worried about wasting time lol.

That my friend pretty much sums up the internet....LMAO

Rep on the way

 

[jeremy]

I have seen rebel flags used for avatars and in pics that are posted at various places within this site. Help me out with this...does this mean we have a bunch of "rebels" against the norms of society in general, or racists?

As we know this flag is a powerful symbol with significant historical meaning related directly to slavery. Do the rebel flag posters know this? Just trying to be cool? Ignorant of the past? Hateful individuals? In many ways this flag is not that different than a german swaztika which I hope many would be opposed to seeing on this site for obvious reasons.

My Family has fought and died under every flag this country has flown. Tread lightly with your ignorance.

There was as much Honor, maybe even more Honor under tha Stars and Bars than what was displayed by the Armies of the Potomic...

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Joe Williams pretty much summed it up. I would like to add that the cotton gin was a recent development of the era that did NOT require food, shelter, clothing or medical care as slaves did. Also it could work much harder, much longer and much more efficiently than any number of slaves. For this reason, slavery was already becoming an expensive relic of the past and more of a status symbol for the rich much as it remained in the north even after the emancipation proclamation.

Oh, and it IS NOT the rebel flag, rather the CONFEDERATE flag. I fly it proudly next to my GADSDEN flag and my BONNIE BLUE. All hold the EXACT same meaning from different wars and different eras in history.

GADSDEN

BONNIE BLUE

CONFEDERATE

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I wonder how much negative rep this thread has generated for ol'bluesmoke? I'm not going to add to it, his ignorance is clear. I have however added some rep to those who got it right.

 

[groovatron]

I will now retreat back to this.....

 

[evansvillethompsongunner]

So wrong, it's right!

You know, I've always wanted to... *mumble, mumble, mumble*... well, nevermind.

But I digress.

I find it disappointing how few people realize that the Gadsden Flag was our flag, even before the Stars and Stripes (though long may she wave).

I have little problem with the Stars and Bars save that it was the flag flown by an enemy - an enemy at one time, if not now... (Also, quick question as I myself am by no means a scholar of history - did all of the States in the south re-accede to the Union?) To the extent that people fly it to show discontentment with governmental policies, I have no qualms with that. To the extent that someone would fly the Stars and Bars to intimidate someone else - black or Yankee - well, that's when my tolerance drops to almost-zero. I say almost-zero because they have a right to do it, despite me not liking it. The enraging part of a free Republic is that none of us have the right to not be offended... which is a good, if not wholly satisfactory, thing.

"Nemo nos impune lacessit."