What would you do if your child was spanked at school?

[Rookie]

So, spanking is the last-ditch effort? What is the first? A child calls his teacher a mother****er at school, what do you do? He does it again, what do you do? He does it a third time and now you are at the last-ditch effort and spank him. Do you really believe the child is apprehending corrective action?

What about if he was stealing from the local grocery store? Do you believe the system will give him three or four opportunities? That is what kids think today. Because they get five chances before parents really get serious, they believe the system works the same way. That is why the parents end up on TV talking about how Jimmy is a good boy, but knowing they've failed him.

If you think a kid is going to jump straight to cussing at a teacher without trying the water with lesser acts, then I don't know what to say. Believe me when I tell you, my kids knew from day one that they were to be respectful to their teachers regardless if the teacher was right or wrong. If the teacher was right, too bad, accept the punishment and move on. If the teacher was wrong, too bad, accept the punishment and move on. What my children didn't know is that I would be having a meeting with the teacher and principal to discuss the teacher's actions. Disrespect wasn't (with my oldest) and still isn't (with my youngest) tolerated. For example, my son came home and told me he got his name on the board for talking. Not a big deal, except he decided it was best to try and play lawyer with the teacher. Was he talking? Yes, but not when the teacher nailed him, and he decided it was best to plead his case. The next day, he went to school with a hand written apology for being disrespectful.

As far as your stealing scenario, one of my daughters decided to steal chapstick when she was four years old. I marched her straight back to the store, asked for loss prevention, and watched as she explained that she stole something and emptied her piggy bank to pay for it.

Breaks are given at home, not in the real world and my children know that.

 

[Rookie]

And you think homeschooled students don't get that lesson?

At no time did I mention homeschooling...

 

[Que]

You have my sympathy. Each kid is different and the motivator for each kid is different.

For me, I could see that my dad busted his ass every day for my family. He worked himself to the bone to give us a decent life. Mom worked at least as hard as dad and they both treated their family with love and as much patience as they could spare.

For me, all my parents had to do was explain that I was hurting them and that it was unjust. They loved me and I shouldn't be cruel to them as it was unjust. They did not place unreasonable restrictions on me and I played by their rules.

That worked to motivate me.

From what I have heard, my eldest brother was motivated only by physical punishment, the harder the more motivating.

Each kid is just different.

Oh, sympathy is not needed. I don't have the issues provided in the scenario. I simply trust the teachers that care for my children. I go to the school and spend time with them and I know what's going on in their lives. I've never met a teacher that I wouldn't trust to discipline my children.

Each kid is certainly different, though.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

I notice there's no option for "this would never happen because I homeschool".

I boycott your false dichotomy.

 

[Que]

If you think a kid is going to jump straight to cussing at a teacher without trying the water with lesser acts, then I don't know what to say.

No, I didn't present or imply that in any way.

 

[Rookie]

No, I didn't present or imply that in any way.

Yes, spanking from the school should be a last ditch effort. If my child called a teacher a mother****er, then it would be obvious that I allowed him or her to be disrespectful towards a teacher many times without corrective action.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I love the law, but you must provide context. I can post a lot of things the SC says before and after a ruling. Besides, your quote is about confinement, not spanking.

Note the "or" between use of force and confinement. The case that brought that statement about was about a woman who used a belt or extension cord and left bruises on the youngster's bottom.

Actual case .pdf: http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/06100801rdr.pdf

Highlights:

We adopt the Restatement view. Not only is it entirely
consistent with the law in this jurisdiction, but also it provides guidance on the factors that may
be considered in determining the reasonableness of punishment. It reads:
In determining whether force or confinement is reasonable for the
control, training, or education of a child, the following factors are
to be considered:
(a) whether the actor is a parent;
(b) the age, sex, and physical and mental condition of the child;
(c) the nature of his offense and his apparent motive;
(d) the influence of his example upon other children of the
same family or group;
(e) whether the force or confinement is reasonably necessary
and appropriate to compel obedience to a proper command;
(f) whether it is disproportionate to the offense, unnecessarily
degrading, or likely to cause serious or permanent harm.
6Restatement, supra, § 150. We hasten to add that this list is not exhaustive. There may be other
factors unique to a particular case that should be taken into consideration. And obviously, not all
of the listed factors may be relevant or applicable in every case. But in either event they should
be balanced against each other, giving appropriate weight as the circumstances dictate, in
determining whether the force is reasonable.

To be clear, this is specifically answering your question on if it matters who swings the paddle, teacher or parent, to be considered battery. A parent who disciplines a child in a non-capricious and reasonable manner is not committing battery.

 

[Que]

Yes, spanking from the school should be a last ditch effort. If my child called a teacher a mother****er, then it would be obvious that I allowed him or her to be disrespectful towards a teacher many times without corrective action.

So when did you allow your daughter to steal? Sometimes, a child does something and it just happens to be the first time. Were there steps that you allowed that lead your daughter to stealing? No, of course not. She just did it.

I'm not really asking when a paddling/spanking is necessary. I'm just inquiring if anyone disagrees with a teacher using this tactic to correct their child, whether it's for cussing at them or even hitting them.

Sometimes good parents have children that do things that were not taught in the home or leaned on TV. Sometimes it's just simply the child's fault.

 

[Bapak2ja]

I warn the teacher to never again assault my son. NEVER. I assure him if the boy needs a whupping I will take care of it. When appropriate, put the boy in isolation and call me. I will come immediately and hear his report. I will then talk to my son in private. If this scenario is true I myself will apply the board of education to the seat of learning.

I will assure the teacher and the principal I will deal with it appropriately, but if they ever lay a hand on my son again they will regret it for the rest of their lives. No one, no one, spanks my kids but me. I was physically abused by my teachers in the Fort Wayne Community Schools and I will not allow a teacher to do it again to my kids.

 

[Que]

Note the "or" between use of force and confinement. The case that brought that statement about was about a woman who used a belt or extension cord and left bruises on the youngster's bottom.

Actual case .pdf: http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/06100801rdr.pdf

To be clear, this is specifically answering your question on if it matters who swings the paddle, teacher or parent, to be considered battery. A parent who disciplines a child in a non-capricious and reasonable manner is not committing battery.

Ingraham v. Wright (1977)
Issue: School Discipline
Bottom Line: Teachers Can Use Corporal Punishment, If Your Locality Allows It

Background
James Ingraham, a 14-year-old eighth-grader at Drew Junior High School in Miami, was taken to the principal's office after a teacher accused him of being rowdy in the school auditorium. The principal decided to give him five swats with a paddle, but James said that he hadn't done anything wrong and refused to be punished. He was subsequently held down while the principal gave him 20 swats.

While corporal punishment was permitted in the school district, James suffered bruises that kept him out of school for 10 days and he had to seek medical attention. James and his mother sued the principal and other school officials, claiming the paddling violated Eighth Amendment protections against "cruel and unusual punishments."

Ruling
The Supreme Court ruled against James. The Court said that reasonable physical discipline at school doesn't violate the Constitution. The Eighth Amendment, the Justices said, was designed to protect convicted criminals from excessive punishment at the hands of the government—not schoolchildren who misbehave.

The Court, however, did direct teachers and principals to be cautious and use restraint when deciding whether to administer corporal punishment to students. The Justices suggested that school officials consider the seriousness of a student's offense, the student's attitude and past behavior, the age and physical condition of the student, and the availability of a less severe but equally effective means of discipline.

Impact
The Court left the question of whether to allow corporal punishment up to states and local districts, which traditionally set most education policies. Twenty-two states currently permit corporal punishment in public schools, and 28 have banned the practice.

I found this case that discusses corporal punishment in schools. I'm not sure if Indiana allows this form of punishment or if the schools have outlawed the practice for fear of being sued, but my question wasn't necessarily a legal one and I certainly don't believe anyone is absolutely right. I'm simply trying to understand how much things have changed since over the years as it relates to parents allowing teachers the ability to paddle children.

 

[Benny]

Sometimes good parents have children that do things that were not taught in the home or leaned on TV. Sometimes it's just simply the child's fault.

No question about that. I hate when a bad kid is automatically blamed on bad parenting.

I know TONS of cases where one kid has been an absolute angel and another around same age has been an absolute delinquent. Same parents raised with the exact same parenting. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do.

I only have one kid right now, but I am very thankful he is sweet and respectful to everyone (he's nice to a fault sometimes, but I'm trying to get him over that, because he's been walked on a few times).

 

[Bunnykid68]

No question about that. I hate when a bad kid is automatically blamed on bad parenting.

I know TONS of cases where one kid has been an absolute angel and another around same age has been an absolute delinquent. Same parents raised with the exact same parenting. Sometimes there's just nothing you can do.

I only have one kid right now, but I am very thankful he is sweet and respectful to everyone (he's nice to a fault sometimes, but I'm trying to get him over that, because he's been walked on a few times).

Sounds like my brother and I growing up, I will let you guess which one of us was the bad one

 

[paintman]

i think i would want to know both sides before getting to worked up. i never talked bad or back to adults in front of my parents when i was younger but i sure did when i wasnt around them. so im sure my parents might have thought i would not have done such a thing.
but i can assure you i had a teacher ask me what my problem was one time and i told her she was my effin problem. if my daughter or son said that to a teacher i would expect the teacher to do the same as i would and spank them accordingly. i know if i had said that to my parents i would have just now been waking up. and if they knew i said it they would have expected the teacher to smack the crap out of me and then they would do the same.

but i would have a problem with the teacher doing it in private. that would cross the line. i would expect another adult to witness what happened.

 

[scott delaney]

if this was still happening in our schools maybe we would not have so much troble with our youth today

 

[churchmouse]

My father and mother would tag team kick my A$$ if I spoke like that to any adult especially a teacher.
Myself, I would ground the child until a conference with the teacher and then decide on how long and sever the punishment.

 

[Hotdoger]

Yes, spanking from the school should be a last ditch effort. If my child called a teacher a mother****er, then it would be obvious that I allowed him or her to be disrespectful towards a teacher many times without corrective action.

My wife was told FU by a fourth grader last week.
Her 1st interaction with him.

 

[KDUBCR250]

I lost count how many times I had some posterior stimulatin at school and deserved everyone I got. In the scenario in the poll I wouldn't have a problem with it. When he got home the proper punishment would be put into effect.

 

[bass pro]

If we allowed more spanking in schools, kids would respect their teachers more and would learn more. Kids would have to think before they opened their mouth!

 

[Dirtebiker]

spank him a few more times..

honestly I would talk to the teacher first to get his side of the story. If the story is how you say, my son will be beat again at home.

Reported













To cps!

 

[88GT]

At no time did I mention homeschooling...

Oh, geez. INGO is great for creating good prevaricators. Let's recap.

jbombelli said:

So if a child mouths off to an unrelated adult it's okay for that adult to smack him around as punishment, but if an adult mouths off to an unrelated adult, and gets smacked around for it, people go to jail for battery?

Interesting outlook here.

I understand disciplining your kids, but that's not the job of someone else. That's my job and my wife's job. Nobody else's. If my kid mouths off to you, you tell me about it and I'll deal with it.

This is but one of many reasons we homeschool our children. I'm not going to put other people in the position to potentially have to discipline my kids.

Then you responded with this:

I agree somewhat, but children need to learn that others are in charge, not just mom and dad. That's why it is understood (at my children's school) that I will be made aware before punishment is given. My children didn't know this, and my son doesn't either. Typically, they get a stronger punishment from the school after the school talks to me. For example, my daughter decided to skip class. The school called me, and told me. I asked what the punishment was for first offense and their reply was that a verbal warning was given. I told them it was too light and asked them to give her detention and a note (to be signed by parents) giving the reason for detention. They gladly obliged and my daughter (and her sisters) learned that skipping class was a bad idea.

I have always made it a point to make the school aware that we are on the same side. Every teacher, past and present, knew that a simple note to me was the cure for whatever problem. One attendance counselor decided he was going to play parent to my daughter, let me tell you, our meeting wasn't pretty and ended with a police officer standing outside the door.

Here's where I'm having a little bit of trouble. The context of your post completely backs up jbombelli's in that you make it abundantly clear that you and you alone (as opposed to you and the school or an agent of the school) are responsible for the dispensing of discipline to your children. If anything, by refusing to allow the school (all encompassing) to dispense discipline, you are sending the message to your children that others are NOT in charge and have no authority because only you can do something about it.

But what really has me baffled is what part of jbombelli's post you only partially agreed with if not the part about homeschooling for the purpose, one of them, of keeping the discipline authority solely held by parents. To what would you only partially agree for the reason you gave, if not the part about homeschooling so that the school has no role in the discipline? And where would the issue of children needing to understand that others may be in charge be a problem except for those who don't go to school outside the home?

If we allowed more spanking in schools, kids would respect their teachers more and would learn more. Kids would have to think before they opened their mouth!

They wouldn't be any more respectful. THey would just be more selective in their rudeness.