What Can a Glock Do That a 1911 or BHP Cannot?

[XtremeVel]

It really is just opinion. That and you're comparing a glaring design flaw with the fact that things inevitably wear out with use.

If stating what I have seen is opinion, so be it. Again, why have you seen more cracked frames than Glock kabooms if just an opinion ?

What design flaw are you refering to ? The original delta ? The cracked frames I made referance too weren't the delta. They were .45 ACP.

 

[kingnereli]

The frames are the same size as any of the other Model O frames, the relief cut isn't new, Colt first started the "10mm cutout" on the originals frame rail in late 1987/early '88 and carried it over to all the Model O frames.

That is a frame modification. It did become standard of O frames (my Gold Cup has it too) but it's origins are with the attempts to correct the cracking issue before the Delta was discontinued. It's there for a reason. You could do what I did when I first starting consider a new Delta Elite purchase. Call Colt and ask 'em.

 

[OD*]

Read the entire post. Again, I was not implying that the Glock would outlast the 1911 platform . Heck, far as I know Glock might not be around in 76 years. I was stating the longevity of a Glock is superior to a steel framed weapon. Try buying a Glock and after firing several thousands of rounds thru it then see what you think. If you can fire tens of thousands of rounds thru it in a few years and see no evidence of battering, then compare it to a steel frame with equal number of rounds, you might not have to wait that 76 years to have your answer.

Odd, I have quite a number of 1911s, more than a few with what some consider high round counts, none show battering, and a well made 1911 won't, with proper care. A "battered" nylon "washer" proves nothing, they are taking up area that is normally used in the reciprocation of the slide, of course they'll get battered.

I was stating the longevity of a Glock is superior to a steel framed weapon.

Exactly, and what are you basing that on besides opinion?

 

[XtremeVel]

You're missing the point. When you see a smashed up shock buffer you are seeing that it has done exactly what it was designed to do. They are supposed to smash up. Are you equally shocked we you witness hammers drive nails or wrenches turn bolts? If someone were to make and install a nylon buffer inside a glock where the frame and slide contacts on recoil the buffer would smash over time. It offers no evidence whatsoever to the durability of the frame.

I fully understand the point. I was bringing up the buffer as evidence earlier tonight to someone that stated with proper spring weight, there is no battering in a 1911. I have installed buffers in Glocks. They get smashed up just as fast. But in Glocks, if you don't run them, no harm. The frame itself acts as a buffer. In a steel framed gun, if no buffer, you have steel to steel impact. In a 1911, if you run a buffer, you could also run a risk of reliability.

 

[Joe Williams]

Cracked Glock frames: it doesn't just happen to steel guns! Betcha it happens to other polymer guns to.

The Gun Zone -- Glock 19 Cracked Frame

Found a crack in my Glock frame tonight - Forums of Ramanon

G27 cracked frame - Glock Talk

Who has had their Glock frame crack? - Yahoo! Answers

Glock frame crack help - TheFiringLine Forums

OD Glock frame crack - M4Carbine.net Forums

That's about 2 minutes worth of Googling. Figure there are plenty more. As much as their devotees hate to admit it, they are just tools, no better or worse than many others, and tools break.

 

[kingnereli]

If stating what I have seen is opinion, so be it. Again, why have you seen more cracked frames than Glock kabooms if just an opinion ?

What design flaw are you refering to ? The original delta ? The cracked frames I made referance too weren't the delta. They were .45 ACP.

Stating that polymer frames are unequivocally more durable then any steel frames was the opinion. Neither of us have anywhere near enough data to make that call. I see more Chevy pickup trucks at the range I frequent then I do Dodge. Shall I make the call that all Chevy trucks are profoundly better for gun owners the Dodge trucks?

If I mention the design flaws I was referring to a particular INGO member will get all hot and bothered. Maybe I'll tell you tomorrow when I've had enough rest to revisit the design debate. I will give you a hint. It wasn't the 1911's I was referring to.

 

[OD*]

but it's origins are with the attempts to correct the cracking issue before the Delta was discontinued. It's there for a reason. You could do what I did when I first starting consider a new Delta Elite purchase. Call Colt and ask 'em.

I know that, that's why I stated it wasn't new to to the current pistols, Colt started it in the late '80s when there were some complaints of frames cracking on the Deltas.

 

[kingnereli]

Cracked Glock frames: it doesn't just happen to steel guns! Betcha it happens to other polymer guns to.

The Gun Zone -- Glock 19 Cracked Frame

Found a crack in my Glock frame tonight - Forums of Ramanon

G27 cracked frame - Glock Talk

Who has had their Glock frame crack? - Yahoo! Answers

Glock frame crack help - TheFiringLine Forums

OD Glock frame crack - M4Carbine.net Forums

That's about 2 minutes worth of Googling. Figure there are plenty more. As much as their devotees hate to admit it, they are just tools, no better or worse than many others, and tools break.

Looks like they should have had some shock buffers.

 

[XtremeVel]

Looks like they should have had some shock buffers.

Right back ! But look, you had to google and you got 7 cases ? Now test your memory... Maybe you know of that many personally that have had cracked steel frames ?

 

[bwframe]

...

...but OK, I'll play devil's advocate.

Would you rather go against a Glock guy who thinks his modern day "bucket of bullets" will prevail? Or a serious 1911 operator?

 

[XtremeVel]

...

...but OK, I'll play devil's advocate.

Would you rather go against a Glock guy who thinks his modern day "bucket of bullets" will prevail? Or a serious 1911 operator?

Depends on the range. My Glock Poly frame can handle pressures like the .357 sig and it is flat shooting and can reach out. It also holds 15 rounds...

 

[kingnereli]

I know that, that's why I stated it wasn't new to to the current pistols, Colt started it in the late '80s when there were some complaints of frames cracking on the Deltas.

You're history of the slide cut was accurate. I'm just saying its existence is due to the delta issues. They made it standard on the O models then ended up dropping the Delta. Therefore, it is fitting to mention it when speaking of the new Delta's. It was not present when the Delta's began having cracking issues.

 

[Joe Williams]

Right back ! But look, you had to google and you got 7 cases ? Now test your memory... Maybe you know of that many personally that have had cracked steel frames ?

No. Not a one. Only metal gun I've actually had break was a PT99 that cracked a locking block. That gun had tens of thousands of rounds through it... and not all of them were safe rounds. Namely, there was a time when some folks were trying to load 9x19 to major, and I thought it would be fun to join the crowd. Suffice to say, it can't be done safely, but I put a few hundred rounds through it before I got too scared to keep trying. Flattened primers, nothing... try having the markings on the case head obliterated, lots of bulging, and brass good for one, maybe two uses. Not a good idea!!!! Not to mention, I really couldn't see the advantage. It felt like lighting off a .357 Mag almost, and recoil control was harder than with a .45. To make matters worse, if my fading memory serves me major at the time was 180. That means about 1450 fps from a 124 grain bullet. That gun had EARNED breaking long before it did LOL. I was lucky I didn't eat a slide.

 

[Joe Williams]

Depends on the range. My Glock Poly frame can handle pressures like the .357 sig and it is flat shooting and can reach out. It also holds 15 rounds...

Friend and I used to have a grand ole time shooting up some man sized rocks at about 100 yards. He didn't seem handicapped by using his .45.

As to the question about which I'd rather face? A sprayer and prayer any day of the week. A man who knows how to actually make the use of each round is a real problem. A man who just empties his massive magazine MIGHT get lucky and hit me... but he won't have fifteen rounds to do it with, because before he gets there he'll have a few .38 +P Gold Dots residing in him from my trusty ole 6 shot dinosaur gun.

 

[kingnereli]

Right back ! But look, you had to google and you got 7 cases ? Now test your memory... Maybe you know of that many personally that have had cracked steel frames ?

I have not personally witnessed seven cracked 1911 frames. However, it is admittedly easier to find this sort of thing with google. The point I and I think Joe was trying to make is that sometimes stuff just brakes. Glock frames can crack over time. 1911 frames can crack over time. There isn't a clear durability advantage to polymer as you claim.

 

[XtremeVel]

No. Not a one. Only metal gun I've actually had break was a PT99 that cracked a locking block. That gun had tens of thousands of rounds through it... and not all of them were safe rounds. Namely, there was a time when some folks were trying to load 9x19 to major, and I thought it would be fun to join the crowd. Suffice to say, it can't be done safely, but I put a few hundred rounds through it before I got too scared to keep trying. Flattened primers, nothing... try having the markings on the case head obliterated, lots of bulging, and brass good for one, maybe two uses. Not a good idea!!!! Not to mention, I really couldn't see the advantage. It felt like lighting off a .357 Mag almost, and recoil control was harder than with a .45. To make matters worse, if my fading memory serves me major at the time was 180. That means about 1450 fps from a 124 grain bullet. That gun had EARNED breaking long before it did LOL. I was lucky I didn't eat a slide.

I'm actually surprised. I'm not to worldly, but I have seen 3 cracked. But, I also was present for 1 kboom too.

 

[XtremeVel]

Friend and I used to have a grand ole time shooting up some man sized rocks at about 100 yards. He didn't seem handicapped by using his .45.

As to the question about which I'd rather face? A sprayer and prayer any day of the week. A man who knows how to actually make the use of each round is a real problem. A man who just empties his massive magazine MIGHT get lucky and hit me... but he won't have fifteen rounds to do with with, because before he gets there he'll have a few .38 +P Gold Dots residing him from my trusty ole 6 shot dinosaur gun.

Long range can be and is fun. I miss the days out in the Mohave with metalicic silhouttes. That was back when I only adknowledged revolvers tho.

 

[OD*]

You're history of the slide cut was accurate. I'm just saying its existence is due to the delta issues. They made it standard on the O models then ended up dropping the Delta. Therefore, it is fitting to mention it when speaking of the new Delta's. It was not present when the Delta's began having cracking issues.

Right, that's why I wrote the "10mm cutout" in the first post, as it was called by Colt fans at the time.

 

[Joe Williams]

I'm actually surprised. I'm not to worldly, but I have seen 3 cracked. But, I also was present for 1 kboom too.

Oh, there's no doubt there are plenty of cracked steel frames out there! Only gun I think would actually surprise me would be one of Ruger's P-series pistols. They are so overbuilt, I can't picture the amount of use it would take to cause one to break from plain ole fatigue.

Edit: Of course, the Ruger's don't actually have a steel frame. Oh well, still germane to the topic of metal vs polymer frame cracking.

 

[kingnereli]

Right, that's why I wrote the "10mm cutout" in the first post, as it was called by Colt fans at the time.

OK. We're on the same page then. I think. Maybe.