Two bodies found in Carroll County

[Trigger Time]

Fargo thank you very much!! Rep inbound

 

[mom45]

TT - One other thing we did (I agree with much of what Fargo posted...especially about not worrying about offending other parents, etc.) was to create a "safe zone" where the kids could share ANYTHING and we would not judge or over react...easier said that done at times. That does not mean there would not be consequences if they had done something wrong, but we agreed to discuss things calmly/reasonably if shared willingly. If they hid info from me, the consequences were more severe if they got caught. We had dinner together at the table as a family EVERY night. My kids both knew that dinner time was a time for us to all share our day and what happened. My kids shared things I would have never expected because we did this. I used to ask specific questions about aspects of their day rather than just general "how was your day" or "what happened today that was interesting" type things. I would ask about specific friends, teachers, classes, the bus ride, etc. I got more information in their answers as a result of doing this. Discussions that related to sexual behaviors were age appropriate but included the use of correct terminology as you indicated you do. In addition to openly discussing things at the dinner table, the kids both knew that they could come to me at any time if they had specific questions or comments that were maybe more personal they did not care to share at the table. I learned a lot about their friends and how their families lived as a result of these discussions and quickly learned who I would allow my kids to visit or who I would allow to visit our home.

I have no idea how these girls were raised and will not even begin to judge them or their parents since any blame should be placed on the predator who took their lives and has forever changed the lives of their families. There has always been evil in our world, and most of us have been lucky enough to not be directly impacted by acts such as this. I pray for them that they can somehow survive their grief and pray that I never experience this.

 

[Fargo]

Fargo thank you very much!! Rep inbound

Very welcome, I'm certainly not an "expert" on these things but I have had to deal with enough of these cases that these things really stuck out to me. Thanks for the rep.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

What I really want to know is who owns that bridge they keep showing? I can see a big lawsuit there someday! That thing looks scary, 60 feet in the air, broken ties, no rails.........I am amazed CSX(if they still own) would allow people to come on that bridge and even more amazed that Delphi uses it as a trail! They made our park pour new sidewalks because of a trip hazard, can't imagine anyone insuring the owner of this property.

That was the first thing I thought when I saw it too. I can tell you if I was the father/grandfather of one of these girls, that bridge would be on the ground shortly after the suspect(s) are dealt with. No doubt the murder(s) used that bridge as a trap.

The bridge itself isn't part of the trail it's technically the destination of it. The trail officially ends at the bridge. I'm not sure who officially owns it, if anyone. It's considered abandoned I believe. It was built/owned by the defunct Monon railroad. But it's considered a "historic" bridge but not sure if so officially. It's thought to be the second highest in IN , and the 2nd longest on the Monon line and was built in the late 1800s.
City of Delphi - Historic Bridges

 

[SMiller]

That was the first thing I thought when I saw it too. I can tell you if I was the father/grandfather of one of these girls, that bridge would be on the ground shortly after the suspect(s) are dealt with. No doubt the murder(s) used that bridge as a trap.

Are you going to level every dark alley? Every free candy van? Take away all guns?

Not sure how a 100 year old bridge is to blame here...







I wish this thread was on point, so much fluff to go through just to try and get a update on the actual thread.

 

[T.Lex]

A quick point about the DNA issue - there's more than one "kind" of DNA. The one kind we all associate coming from a very specific source and usually found in a couple specific areas. That's rather easy to identify, usually.

But, it is also a best practice to obtain samples from beneath fingernails and possibly even teeth, particularly if there's reason to believe the victim resisted. Those samples are usually very small and must be processed and analyzed to rule out known sources, such as the victims themselves. After that, DNA from others that the kids may have come into contact with must be checked. That's not as quick as TV makes it appear.

Patience is difficult in this situation.

Speaking of communication discipline, I'm kinda surprised we haven't heard from the people who found them, in terms of what the injuries looked like, etc. That's some VERY good discipline.

 

[CHCRandy]

Are you going to level every dark alley? Every free candy van? Take away all guns?

Not sure how a 100 year old bridge is to blame here...I wish this thread was on point, so much fluff to go through just to try and get a update on the actual thread.

I don't think the bridge played a part in this, other than the fact that it is a destination that if it was not there, the girls would not have been there, but that's not really a fair statement. If the bad guy had not been there, they would still be alive.

I made my statement just based on condition of bridge and liability in the future. I know we had an old rail trussle here in Danville, in the park... and a 14 year old young lady fell and died there about 10 years ago. The town got sued and the trussle is now barricaded off to keep kids from messing around on it.

This bridge just looks like a death trap. Seems negligent to have a trail leading to it, no barricades or fencing, no guard rails and 6-7 stories down. Just seems like a train wreck looking for a place to happen. Someone will someday fall off that thing if they don't take some safety precautions. I can tell you one thing...I wouldn't let my kids play on that bridge! And now that this happened....I am sure even more will visit the area. Tax deed says CSX still owns, but article said land was given to surrounding property owners. I know CSX is sticklers on trespassing if they catch you hunting along train tracks, I can't imagine them letting kids walk around on this thing.

 

[CHCRandy]

A quick point about the DNA issue - there's more than one "kind" of DNA. The one kind we all associate coming from a very specific source and usually found in a couple specific areas. That's rather easy to identify, usually.

But, it is also a best practice to obtain samples from beneath fingernails and possibly even teeth, particularly if there's reason to believe the victim resisted. Those samples are usually very small and must be processed and analyzed to rule out known sources, such as the victims themselves. After that, DNA from others that the kids may have come into contact with must be checked. That's not as quick as TV makes it appear.

Patience is difficult in this situation.

Speaking of communication discipline, I'm kinda surprised we haven't heard from the people who found them, in terms of what the injuries looked like, etc. That's some VERY good discipline.

Some of that information is out there, you just have to dig in the right place. For instance....my daughter showed me on a Facebook page where a cousin of one of the girls mentioned their neck wounds, as sad as that is to write....they both had scarves on during the funerals That pretty much narrows cause of death down.

In another Facebook post, one of the kids grandfather made a comment that all indications was that she went out fighting and resisting....that led me to assume DNA under nails? But yet the LEO never mentioned the suspect may have scratches or anything so not sure what to think of that.

T. Lex, But if they get a suspect can they eliminate the process of elimination by making an instant match or do they still have to eliminate people?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

A quick point about the DNA issue - there's more than one "kind" of DNA. The one kind we all associate coming from a very specific source and usually found in a couple specific areas. That's rather easy to identify, usually.

But, it is also a best practice to obtain samples from beneath fingernails and possibly even teeth, particularly if there's reason to believe the victim resisted. Those samples are usually very small and must be processed and analyzed to rule out known sources, such as the victims themselves. After that, DNA from others that the kids may have come into contact with must be checked. That's not as quick as TV makes it appear.

Speaking of communication discipline, I'm kinda surprised we haven't heard from the people who found them, in terms of what the injuries looked like, etc. That's some VERY good discipline.

I've heard but not sure that DNA usually takes about 2 mos to verify/check. No idea if accurate or not. I'm sure that can be sped up a bit if "expedited" but still not overnight and probably not in 2 weeks.

Very good discipline, except for the one dumbass supposed cousin of one of the girls who posted on FB that they had their throats cut...

Tax deed says CSX still owns, but article said land was given to surrounding property owners. I know CSX is sticklers on trespassing if they catch you hunting along train tracks, I can't imagine them letting kids walk around on this thing.

CSX received the right of way of a good chunk of the Monon line when the company that Monon merged with went under not sure if they technically got the bridge.

Some of that information is out there, you just have to dig in the right place. For instance....my daughter showed me on a Facebook page where a cousin of one of the girls mentioned their neck wounds, as sad as that is to write....they both had scarves on during the funerals That pretty much narrows cause of death down.

In another Facebook post, one of the kids grandfather made a comment that all indications was that she went out fighting and resisting....that led me to assume DNA under nails? But yet the LEO never mentioned the suspect may have scratches or anything so not sure what to think of that.

T. Lex, But if they get a suspect can they eliminate the process of elimination by making an instant match or do they still have to eliminate people?

Is that the same dumbass "cousin" that stated he knew who it was, he hung out behind some store in the mornings by the dumpster and if he was there in the morning when he went he was going to get out of his truck and stab him? And scarves don't mean that their throats were cut. Could be strangled, or some other cause.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

They weren't joking when they talked about expanding the search, around 6000 electronic billboards in 46 states. And Todd Rokita kicked in $9000 towards the reward. Brings it to $50k. Tips, reward increase since suspect audio released in Delphi double homicide | wlfi.com

 

[KellyinAvon]

It sounds like the tip number is now routed to an FBI call center. "100s of workers" tells me nation-wide. Prompts to follow means it goes through a phone tree (Delphi, Indiana press 1, terrorism press 2, etc) 1900 calls since the voice recording was released.

The people working at the Delphi call center were dispatchers from Carroll County and surrounding counties that were volunteering their time, whereas the FBI call center has hundreds of workers. Indiana State Police Sgt. Dave Bursten says the switch to the FBI call center allows local workers to focus on their other duties and get some rest.

State police on Thursday that 3,900 tips have come in via phone and email since the murders of German and Williams. Of those tips, 1,900 came in after police released an audio recording Wednesday morning of a man saying, “Down the hill.” The recording came from Libby German’s phone, police said, as did a picture of the prime suspect in the case.

FBI takes over for Delphi call center in double murder investigation | Fox 59

 

[Expat]

If they are encouraging call in tips from the general public, I have to think they don't have anything at all at this point.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Gotcha, I'm an anti-gunner because I wouldn't allow my 13 year old daughters to walk the streets or the trails unsupervised.

A dedicated predator goes where they can find prey. In this case it was two unsupervised 13 year old girls. They aren't there and the predator has no prey.

And if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride. One could just as easily say that if the predator weren't there there would be no prey.

 

[jd4320t]

If they are encouraging call in tips from the general public, I have to think they don't have anything at all at this point.

Sadly I feel the same.

 

[T.Lex]

Some of that information is out there, you just have to dig in the right place. For instance....my daughter showed me on a Facebook page where a cousin of one of the girls mentioned their neck wounds, as sad as that is to write....they both had scarves on during the funerals That pretty much narrows cause of death down.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm sorry, but FB might as well be NBC in terms of reliability.

In another Facebook post, one of the kids grandfather made a comment that all indications was that she went out fighting and resisting....that led me to assume DNA under nails? But yet the LEO never mentioned the suspect may have scratches or anything so not sure what to think of that.

Yeah, they are limiting the information that gets out in a hyper-disciplined way. That's not a bad thing, necessarily, that's just the way they're doing it. For instance, the video of the guy actually walking could help trigger someone's memory. For whatever reason, they don't want to release that.

T. Lex, But if they get a suspect can they eliminate the process of elimination by making an instant match or do they still have to eliminate people?

Its a bit of a logic puzzle.

If there are no matches to a known database, then they have an identifier with no related identity. A fingerprint only helps if you have a name or a person to match it to.

If there are only matches with people known to have contact with her (and this would be under-fingernail or other innocuous location DNA), then either one of them is the suspect, or the suspect didn't leave any DNA there.

If they figure out all the innocuous matches, and there's still one (or more) DNA sample that is unmatched, there's a pretty good indication that is the suspect.

I've heard but not sure that DNA usually takes about 2 mos to verify/check. No idea if accurate or not. I'm sure that can be sped up a bit if "expedited" but still not overnight and probably not in 2 weeks.

Basically, DNA is replicated ("grown" basically) in a lab until there is sufficient amount to test. That really can't be rushed. Plus, back when I was familiar with this, there were different methods of replicating and different kinds of mapping, which could all take different amounts of time.

Once there's a large enough sample, the testing itself can be relatively fast - days or even hours depending on the test, IIRC. So, the time depends on how many samples there are to test, how much of those samples is found, and what techniques they're going to use to replicate and test them all.

Once they have the DNA results, then there's the matter of cross referencing against known samples, which takes time.

I still think its unusual to have the FBI this deeply involved, but maybe that's the new normal.

(Gallows humor trigger warning)
Since the election's over, I guess they have more time on their hands.

 

[wagyu52]

Are you going to level every dark alley? Every free candy van? Take away all guns?

Not sure how a 100 year old bridge is to blame here...







I wish this thread was on point, so much fluff to go through just to try and get a update on the actual thread.

Im not blaming the inanimate object for the death of these two little girls, but as a object that has out lived it's intended purpose and was contributing factor in this evil. (I know, I'm jumping to conclusions) Yeah, it should go. Or at least be made in passable, tear out the ties.
Its common sense.

 

[T.Lex]

Im not blaming the inanimate object for the death of these two little girls, but as a object that has out lived it's intended purpose and was contributing factor in this evil. (I know, I'm jumping to conclusions) Yeah, it should go. Or at least be made in passable, tear out the ties.
Its common sense.

This seems very odd to me.

A few years ago, a girl in the south was basically kidnapped from a Metallica concert (she'd accidentally gone outside and security wouldn't let her back in).

By that logic, it seems like the stadium should be torn down and Metallica not allowed to tour. (One of those options would actually be ok with me, personally, but I digress.)

Removing the bridge seems like the opposite of common sense to me. Doing something for no other reason than to do something, with no regard for whether it would be effective.

 

[wagyu52]

I've got a farmer friend who's son was electrocuted in a grain bin due to faulty wiring, he tore the bin down, couldn't go out his door every day and look at that bin. Was it the bins fault, no. Was it a reminder of that tragic day that he relived every time he looked at it, yes.
If that where my loved one brutally murdered in the shadow of that bridge I would burn that SOB to the ground.

 

[T.Lex]

I've got a farmer friend who's son was electrocuted in a grain bin due to faulty wiring, he tore the bin down, couldn't go out his door every day and look at that bin. Was it the bins fault, no. Was it a reminder of that tragic day that he relived every time he looked at it, yes.
If that where my loved one brutally murdered in the shadow of that bridge I would burn that SOB to the ground.

Ok. The emotional connection between the "where" and the "what" is understandable. It correlates with the stages of grief - mostly anger. And there's plenty of anger related to this incident.

If the community decides to go that route, that's fine.

But, there are other options. It can also become a monument to innocence. It can reflect an acceptance that kids - and adults - should have safe places, while no place is truly safe. It can evolve into a memorial to 2 girls who deserve to be remembered.

It depends on how you look at it.

Your farmer friend's action, I understand and sympathize with. But, I also see that differently.

 

[eldirector]

I suppose one could purchase that property from the current owners, and do as they wish with that bridge.

As to why it is still there: There are several "greenways" groups that intend to connect the trail system in Delphi with the trail system in Frankfort, using the of Monon railbed. I suspect they may want to refurbish and reuse that bridge as a footbridge.