trump

[IndyDave1776]

When I was a young boy, I remember a principle taught in Sunday schools. It went like this. Avoid even the appearance of evil. Trump claims to be a Christian. Probably he missed that lesson.

Here's how you tell if he's avoiding even the appearance of evil. Look at someone you consider is evil. If you would call the evil person evil for doing something, you should probably call the person you like evil for doing the same thing. Honestly, what would you think of Hilary if she was caught paying herself.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would argue that buying goods and services from his own enterprises rather than someone else's is simply good business. The difference between this and Hillary is that her financial shenanigans involve huge amounts of money from often less than friendly foreign sources with a pretty obvious quid pro quo attached to them.

 

[pudly]

For example?

Trump International Hotel & Tower Chicago- TripAdvisor

Trump International Hotel & Tower New York- TripAdvisor

Both highly rated in their respective cities by thousands of reviewers. Really. Is Google that hard?

Don't many companies "pay" themselves when they use their own resources? I know the companies I worked for always "billed themselves" for things. I'm an IT sysadmin and the IT department "charges" all the other departments that use IT resources. Seem like SOP for any entity to me.

Yes. That is standard practice. It is just something that people who don't understand it believe is evil when Trump does it. If Hillary produced anything other than political favors for money, she would likely do it as well.

 

[historian]

If a politician has a business interest in hotels, printing services etc, I see no "crookedness" in using ones own resources.

Usually they are called "in-kind donations". If company XYZ prints you flyers for free, you have to record it as an in-kind donation on your form (which counts towards the cap) if you pay them off, then it isn't an in-kind. The crookedness stems from him using donation money (NOT HIS OWN) to pay for the stuff that is enriching him. Hillary or Jeb or Jim Bob for Congress don't own their own hotel, or the wine, or any of this other stuff. Now sure, Jim-Bob's cousin who runs a printing press can get some money. But this LEVEL is unprecedented.

As for the salary, candidates are allowed to pay themselves the equivalent of what they were making or the salary of the office they are running for whichever is less. He is in his legal right to get a paycheck. But just because it is legal doesn't make it right. And, when you throw in all the other items it looks like he is just using this campaign to line his pockets.

Then there is the matter of his $50 milllion loan (that's right, loan). He said he isn't going to want that money back, but he still hasn't converted it to a donation yet. And he has had plenty of time to do so.

 

[historian]

Meanwhile, Jerry Falwell Jr. (who's dad famously founded the moral majority):

Nope, that isn't a playboy magazine cover over there...

 

[Jludo]

Don't many companies "pay" themselves when they use their own resources? I know the companies I worked for always "billed themselves" for things. I'm an IT sysadmin and the IT department "charges" all the other departments that use IT resources. Seem like SOP for any entity to me.

Did the it department charge mark ups on everything? I think that's the issue to find out if he's paying cost for this stuff or 'market value', in which case his companies are profiting from campaign contributions, despite his spiel about self financing.
Does anyone think Trump is paying any less than 'market value' for his own products/services?

 

[foszoe]

Usually they are called "in-kind donations". If company XYZ prints you flyers for free, you have to record it as an in-kind donation on your form (which counts towards the cap) if you pay them off, then it isn't an in-kind. The crookedness stems from him using donation money (NOT HIS OWN) to pay for the stuff that is enriching him. Hillary or Jeb or Jim Bob for Congress don't own their own hotel, or the wine, or any of this other stuff. Now sure, Jim-Bob's cousin who runs a printing press can get some money. But this LEVEL is unprecedented.

As for the salary, candidates are allowed to pay themselves the equivalent of what they were making or the salary of the office they are running for whichever is less. He is in his legal right to get a paycheck. But just because it is legal doesn't make it right. And, when you throw in all the other items it looks like he is just using this campaign to line his pockets.

Then there is the matter of his $50 milllion loan (that's right, loan). He said he isn't going to want that money back, but he still hasn't converted it to a donation yet. And he has had plenty of time to do so.

Lets focus on crookedness. What does crookedness mean to you? I look it up and see such things as fraudulent, dishonest.

Here is what I understand you to be saying.

I donate 50$ to Trump.

Trump spends 50$ towards a night in a Trump Hotel.

You see that as crooked.

I don't.

Why do we have a disconnect?

 

[Jludo]

Lets focus on crookedness. What does crookedness mean to you? I look it up and see such things as fraudulent, dishonest.

Here is what I understand you to be saying.

I donate 50$ to Trump.

Trump spends 50$ towards a night in a Trump Hotel.

You see that as crooked.

I don't.

Why do we have a disconnect?

Trump makes 2 dollars profit on that hotel room stay. You don't have a problem with that?

 

[historian]

Lets focus on crookedness. What does crookedness mean to you? I look it up and see such things as fraudulent, dishonest.

Here is what I understand you to be saying.

I donate 50$ to Trump.

Trump spends 50$ towards a night in a Trump Hotel.

You see that as crooked.

I don't.

Why do we have a disconnect?

The $50 then goes to pay Trump as CEO of Trump Hotels. Meaning, Donald Trump is taking the $50 you gave his campaign and paying himself a cut of that.

Legal yes, ethical, no. But then again, Trump and ethics stay away from each other.

 

[foszoe]

Trump makes 2 dollars profit on that hotel room stay. You don't have a problem with that?

No. Businesses are in business to make a profit. If any other candidate stayed at that hotel, I wouldn't expect the hotel to forego its profits. Nor would I expect that for trump.

If the going rate for the room was doubled solely for Trump, then I would have reason to question motive. However, if the campaign discloses this behavior, I still couldn't call it fraudulent or dishonest which are the definitions I find for crooked. I am being told how much is being spent as is evidenced by your post.

 

[foszoe]

The $50 then goes to pay Trump as CEO of Trump Hotels. Meaning, Donald Trump is taking the $50 you gave his campaign and paying himself a cut of that.

Legal yes, ethical, no. But then again, Trump and ethics stay away from each other.

I don't see that as what is happening. I don't deny it might.

CEO's are typically on some sort of contract + bonus. If his pay includes a portion of the profits earned from the hotel due to his campaign activities, I go back to having no issue with it.

 

[jamil]

For example?

I hear he runs a hellava university.

 

[jamil]

I don't know about anyone else, but I would argue that buying goods and services from his own enterprises rather than someone else's is simply good business. The difference between this and Hillary is that her financial shenanigans involve huge amounts of money from often less than friendly foreign sources with a pretty obvious quid pro quo attached to them.

If Hillary made the news for paying herself from campaign donations, in the same way Trump is paying himself, would everyone say that's as above board as Trump?

 

[Jludo]

I hear he runs a hellava university.

He got great reviews for it...

 

[indiucky]

Trump makes 2 dollars profit on that hotel room stay. You don't have a problem with that?

I have a confession to make then...God I feel so dirty...

I buy guns here at the shop from people....And then I...I...Oh God please forgive me...I sell them for a higher price than I paid....

I am so sorry....But I use the profits to pay for electricity and TWC so I can post on INGO...

Someone please forgive me....I...I....I...Try to make a profit.....OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!

(Seriously I really do sell them for more than I pay for them...)

 

[indiucky]

I hear he runs a hellava university.

Here is a list of Universities being sued right now......(Various lawsuits, not all like the case against Trump)

Higher Ed Accessibility Lawsuits, Complaints, and Settlements

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/b...sed-of-fraud-still-receive-us-funds.html?_r=0

I wonder how many waitresses/waiters there are now with $100,000 in student loan debt that can not find a job with their gender studies degree that are suing their schools for ripping them off???

Just another way of looking at things....

 

[jamil]

Here is a list of Universities being sued right now......

Higher Ed Accessibility Lawsuits, Complaints, and Settlements

I wonder how many waitresses/waiters there are now with $100,000 in student debt that can not find a job with their gender studies degree that are suing their schools for ripping them off???

Just another way of looking at things....

Selling a worthless degree is indeed a scam. Whether it's from an Ivy League public university or a private school like Trump university.

 

[Jludo]

I have a confession to make then...God I feel so dirty...

I buy guns here at the shop from people....And then I...I...Oh God please forgive me...I sell them for a higher price than I paid....

I am so sorry....But I use the profits to pay for electricity and TWC so I can post on INGO...

Someone please forgive me....I...I....I...Try to make a profit.....OH THE HUMANITY!!!!!!

(Seriously I really do sell them for more than I pay for them...)

The issue isn't that Trump makes a profit from his hotels, it's that campaign contributions from average Americans pay for his wine and water which he profits from.
As stated its not strictly illegal, just unethical. Though an argument could be made, If you're going to contribute to his campaign you get what you deserve/want, that is making Trump a wealthier man.

Anyone going to argue campaign contributor money couldn't be better spent than 400k to rent out his own Florida home?

 

[indiucky]

Selling a worthless degree is indeed a scam. Whether it's from an Ivy League public university or a private school like Trump university.

Agreed....

 

[foszoe]

Selling a worthless degree is indeed a scam. Whether it's from an Ivy League public university or a private school like Trump university.

I guess here is where I differ from what I read on this forum.

I am mostly a personal responsibility person.

If I choose to pay for a worthless degree, who is at fault? Is it a binary question? For me it is to a degree much higher than most.

 

[Jludo]

I guess here is where I differ from what I read on this forum.

I am mostly a personal responsibility person.

If I choose to pay for a worthless degree, who is at fault? Is it a binary question? For me it is to a degree much higher than most.

You can be an idiot for falling for it but that doesn't detract from the negligence of the guy selling you the snake oil.