The President Trump Immigration Thread

[Dddrees]

Well. No. Apparently you can't play that too. That's not what I said. I said, as long as they are pursuing citizenship, they should be given some kind of temporary status. But no freebies. So. And if they're lawless, they lose the temp status. I didn't say anything different from that.



Some of them? Well, first, ALL of them have been living here illegally. Some of them have been law abiding, some not. Some may be pursuing citizenship now, some not. Again, I'm not talking about anything in terms of all or nothing.

Well some of them have been here for decades. Some have served in our military. What more proof do you need?

 

[T.Lex]

Well some of them have been here for decades. Some have served in our military. What more proof do you need?

Ah, yes - there's the old school INGO I know and love.

some = all... every time... forever ... except when it doesn't

 

[HoughMade]

Ah, yes - there's the old school INGO I know and love.

some = all... every time... forever ... except when it doesn't

Before we start criticizing the some=all argument....some as indicated above, some have had their DACA status revoked due to criminal activity, therefore, they are all criminals.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well. No. Apparently you can't play that too. That's not what I said. I said, as long as they are pursuing citizenship, they should be given some kind of temporary status. But no freebies. So. And if they're lawless, they lose the temp status. I didn't say anything different from that.



Some of them? Well, first, ALL of them have been living here illegally. Some of them have been law abiding, some not. Some may be pursuing citizenship now, some not. Again, I'm not talking about anything in terms of all or nothing.

I'm honestly not sure that is even technically correct. At which point after they crossed the border did they begin to live here illegally? I think one has a puncher's chance if they challenged that notion.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm honestly not sure that is even technically correct. At which point after they crossed the border did they begin to live here illegally? I think one has a puncher's chance if they challenged that notion.

Well the problem is that the term "illegally" is really, well, a legal term in this context. What was their immigration status? If they had no immigration status that specifically authorized them to live in the country, how would be describe that?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well the problem is that the term "illegally" is really, well, a legal term in this context. What was their immigration status? If they had no immigration status that specifically authorized them to live in the country, how would be describe that?

Unsanctioned?
I'm asking at which point the DACA's started breaking the law. Is there caselaw on that?

 

[T.Lex]

Unsanctioned?
I'm asking at which point the DACA's started breaking the law. Is there caselaw on that?

Yes and no.

There is a finite (but long) list of ways a non-citizen can legally be here. If someone cannot check one of those boxes, then they are illegally here.

More than caselaw, there is a metric shton of administrative decisions on a bazillion nuances of each line of the checklist. And the exceptions. And the exceptions to the exceptions.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Yes and no.

There is a finite (but long) list of ways a non-citizen can legally be here. If someone cannot check one of those boxes, then they are illegally here.

More than caselaw, there is a metric shton of administrative decisions on a bazillion nuances of each line of the checklist. And the exceptions. And the exceptions to the exceptions.

So when do they become illegal, if they were brought into the nation illegally? Is there a timeframe, as to when they become a criminal?

 

[HoughMade]

So when do they become illegal, if they were brought into the nation illegally? Is there a timeframe, as to when they become a criminal?

Why are you equating illegality and criminality? Plenty of things are illegal that are not criminal. This would appear to be one. If your car breaks down in a street that doesn't allow parking and you have to leave it there, is it there illegally? Have you (or it) committed a crime?

 

[T.Lex]

So when do they become illegal, if they were brought into the nation illegally? Is there a timeframe, as to when they become a criminal?

Why are you equating illegality and criminality? Plenty of things are illegality that are not criminal. This would appear to be one.

Yeah, I would characterize someone being here without satisfying a checklist as "unlawful." Others can argue that simply being here without satisfying the checklist is "illegal."

But, the straightest answer to the question is that as soon as a person, including a child, comes across the border without satisfying the checklist, that person is illegally present.

 

[1DOWN4UP]

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/us-...s-of-immigrant-recruits-1.487829#.WbwhhrLyvrd Army kills contracts with illegal immigrants.

 

[jamil]

I'm honestly not sure that is even technically correct. At which point after they crossed the border did they begin to live here illegally? I think one has a puncher's chance if they challenged that notion.

The emotion of how you want things doesn't make it legal or not. I honestly don't understand this. If I sneak my son into Wrigley Field he's there illegally. Doesn't mean he broke the law. But he's there illegally. It would be ridiculous to say he's there "unsanctioned".

 

[Kutnupe14]

The emotion of how you want things doesn't make it legal or not. I honestly don't understand this. If I sneak my son into Wrigley Field he's there illegally. Doesn't mean he broke the law. But he's there illegally. It would be ridiculous to say he's there "unsanctioned".

It's a grey area. They may be there illegally, but they haven't committed an illegal action.

 

[PaulF]

I think there should be a path to citizenship for anyone that wants it, within reasonable standards set by elected officials, in plain view of the public.

I also think that citizenship should be required to receive public benefits, including "free" use of schools, fire, and police services. And voting.

People who come here and add value to our economy and culture should be allowed a chance to naturalize. There should be rewards for those willing to take the risks of doing so, and I think citizenship should be the greatest reward among them. People who want to come here for a few months a year to make money and return home should also be able to do so legally. People who come here and cause trouble, or take more than they produce, or are unwilling to live within our laws should not be allowed to participate.

They aren't scary monsters. They are people. People will play by the rules if you give them an opportunity to. If so many people are in violation of the rules is it not a possibility the rules themselves might be the problem?

 

[Dddrees]

They've been here for decades. If we've failed to do something in the beginning to prevent or correct this than we should do the right thing by them now. By the way when some of them have volunteered to serve our country they most certainly have earned the right to the privileges we often give those that failed to do so and only sit on their couch and draw welfare.


And to those that feel they took your job. I say too bad you got what you deserve because you deserve nothing and you should have got off your a** and done better to earn better.

 

[Kutnupe14]

https://www.stripes.com/news/us/us-...s-of-immigrant-recruits-1.487829#.WbwhhrLyvrd Army kills contracts with illegal immigrants.

That's a d**k move. People willing to put the ass on the line in order to get citizenship, turned away. Crazy.

 

[jamil]

It's a grey area. They may be there illegally, but they haven't committed an illegal action.

Okay. We're agreed on that. So should my son get to stay and see the game at Wrigley Field illegally?

 

[KLB]

Okay. We're agreed on that. So should my son get to stay and see the game at Wrigley Field illegally?

Of course. He can enjoy the game while they cart you away to jail.

 

[printcraft]

Okay. We're agreed on that. So should my son get to stay and see the game at Wrigley Field illegally?

Right!

Also if you rob a bank, and give the money you stole to your kid, they get to keep it.

It's a magical world.

 

[Alpo]

They should put your son in foster care. You obviously are a defective parent if you let him trespass AND see the Cubs.