The President Trump Immigration Thread

[1DOWN4UP]

I hope you guys realize that this wall is bad for America,bad for our National Security,and...and(fake tears)goes against what America has always been about......

 

[Dddrees]

I hope you guys realize that this wall is bad for America,bad for our National Security,and...and(fake tears)goes against what America has always been about......

Ah, so your going to pay for it.

Man, do you own your own island too?

 

[IndyDave1776]

Well if it's so obvious and easy I'm just surprised, no amazed this hasn't been tried already. In fact I'm astonished that Trump the all knowing didn't do this day one. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if he ever gets around to it at all.

Why would our politicians tolerate a solution that actually works? After all, the Rs are addicted to the cheap albeit illegal labor and the Ds want a pool of future D voters. Everyone wins but those of us outside the political class.

Mexico's southern border policy is aimed at keeping Central Americans out. Why is it that their policy, there, is ignored, while our desire to do something similar is somehow racist?

https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/ne...ttps://www.theglobeandmail.com&service=mobile

I would point out that for all the pissing and moaning and screaming 'racism and cruelty' Mexico.gov does about any effort we make to slow down what has become their economic relief valve (as opposed to going to the trouble of building an actual economy), Mexico has the second-harshest immigration laws in the world, second only to North Korea.

 

[Dddrees]

Why would our politicians tolerate a solution that actually works? After all, the Rs are addicted to the cheap albeit illegal labor and the Ds want a pool of future D voters. Everyone wins but those of us outside the political class.



I would point out that for all the pissing and moaning and screaming 'racism and cruelty' Mexico.gov does about any effort we make to slow down what has become their economic relief valve (as opposed to going to the trouble of building an actual economy), Mexico has the second-harshest immigration laws in the world, second only to North Korea.

You forgot the Ls. What are the Ls responsible for screwing up?

 

[jamil]

Not quite correct. If goods from a particular source become expensive enough, alternate sources will rush to fill the market. Excluding the vehicles and appliances we have them manufacture for us, because we have allowed them to be a source of cheap labor just across a tariff-free border (thanks to NAFTA), the export mainly agricultural products. They have a great deal of competition in this space.

If we tighten up on the free-flow of goods manufactured in Mexico at the behest of US corporations (with a tariff structure) then there will be a temporary spike in the cost of those goods while corporations rethink their production strategy, but automobile manufacturers who have plants in the US are well poised to capitalize on this

All in all, Mexico's economy will be crushed while ours shows barely a ripple


ETA:This post does not explore whether crushing Mexico's economy would be a good or a bad thing. I doubt Mexico would let it go anywhere near the point of extremis and we would quickly negotiate a wall payment plan

No. prices will still go up. If those alternate sources weren't participating in that market until prices were high enough to entice them to participating, what makes you think that they'd continue to participate if prices were driven down to what they were? Adding such a tariff to their goods coming in removes a lower cost supplier from the economy. That will result in higher prices.

 

[HubertGummer]

Ah, so your going to pay for it.

Man, do you own your own island too?

Hows about we cut some of this welfare BS so the recipients will get a job. Then we'd have no issue affording it.

Its all about priorities. There's a ton of money taken from us by the government, they just waste a ton and a half on nonsense.

 

[Dddrees]

Hows about we cut some of this welfare BS so the recipients will get a job. Then we'd have no issue affording it.

Its all about priorities. There's a ton of money taken from us by the government, they just waste a ton and a half on nonsense.

I do imagine by eliminating some of the entitlements it might very well pay for the wall. However when you get down to it you just can't simply cut out one thing, substitute it with another, and still expect to pay off the debt. We do have other things as well. Like our crumbling infrastructure, a military which may need to be addressed, and commitments which are still ongoing.

By the way when my father in law told me and I have no proof but he said obese teenagers in Florida were receiving government money because they were obese. I mean if true people are receiving money for being obese. We're on what generation of welfare recipients now? I imagine there are generations of families who possibly know nothing about work and all they know is when the welfare check comes in. I don't think this was the original idea behind this program. Temporary safety net, but not away to get out of the responsibility of caring for one self. The problem being that once you give someone an entitlement itself difficult if not impossible to cut somebody off. In fact the tendency is for that entitlement to get bigger.

 

[HubertGummer]

I do imagine by eliminating some of the entitlements it might very well pay for the wall. However when you get down to it you just can't simply cut out one thing, substitute it with another, and still expect to pay off the debt. We do have other things as well. Like our crumbling infrastructure, a military which may need to be addressed, and commitments which are still ongoing.

By the way when my father in law told me and I have no proof but he said obese teenagers in Florida were receiving government money because they were obese. I mean if true people are receiving money for being obese. We're on what generation of welfare recipients now? I imagine there are generations of families who possibly know nothing about work and all they know is when the welfare check comes in. I don't think this was the original idea behind this program. Temporary safety net, but not away to get out of the responsibility of caring for one self. The problem being that once you give someone an entitlement itself difficult if not impossible to cut somebody off. In fact the tendency is for that entitlement to get bigger.

I fully agree. Its why we should have NEVER started ANY federal programs resembling socialism. Once you start it is almost impossible to stop, but if we keep spending more and more as people get more and more dependant on .gov, we will go bankrupt.

It would take a lot of cutbacks. But National Security should be the Fed's #1 priority.

 

[BugI02]

No. prices will still go up. If those alternate sources weren't participating in that market until prices were high enough to entice them to participating, what makes you think that they'd continue to participate if prices were driven down to what they were? Adding such a tariff to their goods coming in removes a lower cost supplier from the economy. That will result in higher prices.

Whoah, there Sparky. I never said prices would go down in that post you helpfully quoted (so it's easy for you to re-read). I said if Mexico raises the price of its native exports to the US, which are mostly agricultural, there are plenty of competitors who would likely rush to fill the demand. The price would likely stabilize at a higher level but unlikely to be drastically higher and shortages would be unlikely due to the many players in this economic space

I said if we apply tariffs to the goods manufactured in Mexico at the behest US companies for US consumption, these companies will likely rethink their manufacturing strategy. I did not overtly state it, but it should be obvious that a tariff would increase the cost of these imports dependent on cheap labor. I specifically mentioned automobiles as companies such as Honda and Toyota, which have US based plants, would be well poised to take advantage of this market disruption as their prices would be unaffected. For appliances companies such as LG and Samsung would jump into the gap. Again prices would stabilize at higher levels, but the argument was that the changes would scarcely be existential for us but Mexico's economy would be severely shaken and the smart money says they wouldn't let it progress very far at all before they came up with a wall payment plan

 

[Alpo]

OEC - Mexico (MEX) Exports, Imports, and Trade Partners

There is quite a bit of information here and even though it is at a relatively high level, I think there are more nuanced answers required than the grandilouquent simplifications above. The US economy is highly dependent on the Mexican economy and vice verse. Mexico is the 10th largest economy in the world. Trade barriers can cut both ways. Try pulling $200 billion of exports to Mexico out of the US economy and see what that does to employment, prices and the GNP multipliers.

 

[jamil]

Whoah, there Sparky. I never said prices would go down in that post you helpfully quoted (so it's easy for you to re-read). I said if Mexico raises the price of its native exports to the US, which are mostly agricultural, there are plenty of competitors who would likely rush to fill the demand. The price would likely stabilize at a higher level but unlikely to be drastically higher and shortages would be unlikely due to the many players in this economic space

I said if we apply tariffs to the goods manufactured in Mexico at the behest US companies for US consumption, these companies will likely rethink their manufacturing strategy. I did not overtly state it, but it should be obvious that a tariff would increase the cost of these imports dependent on cheap labor. I specifically mentioned automobiles as companies such as Honda and Toyota, which have US based plants, would be well poised to take advantage of this market disruption as their prices would be unaffected. For appliances companies such as LG and Samsung would jump into the gap. Again prices would stabilize at higher levels, but the argument was that the changes would scarcely be existential for us but Mexico's economy would be severely shaken and the smart money says they wouldn't let it progress very far at all before they came up with a wall payment plan

I inferred where I thought you were going with it. I've heard Trumpers try to argue that the price would come back down. I also think this is an oversimplification. I doubt it would be as harmless to our economy as you think.

 

[BugI02]

I inferred where I thought you were going with it. I've heard Trumpers try to argue that the price would come back down. I also think this is an oversimplification. I doubt it would be as harmless to our economy as you think.

Well, I'm talking relative levels of harm and making the assumption Mexico would see the moving finger and come about faster than a container ship on auto pilot

 

[BugI02]

OEC - Mexico (MEX) Exports, Imports, and Trade Partners

There is quite a bit of information here and even though it is at a relatively high level, I think there are more nuanced answers required than the grandilouquent simplifications above. The US economy is highly dependent on the Mexican economy and vice verse. Mexico is the 10th largest economy in the world. Trade barriers can cut both ways. Try pulling $200 billion of exports to Mexico out of the US economy and see what that does to employment, prices and the GNP multipliers.

How much of this simplification of which you speak is yours? If a company ships $200 million of engines and transmissions to Mexico to be included in $600 million in vehicles that are shipped back, who will be hurt if cheap labor is no longer cheap(via tariff). The US company can opt to transfer production to a domestic plant, not without some supply chain disruption. Can the Mexican company begin manufacturing complete cars? How much of Mexico's position as #10 economy is based on this form of production? That is why I spoke of Mexico's native exports as being predominantly agricultural. Very few, if any, manufactured in Mexico complex products are on the US market. No Mexican brand cars, appliances or electronics. They hold no high cards in that hand

 

[Brad69]

Tax the money transfers.
That will capture the cash workers into paying a tax.
It will also make it less of a draw to come to the US.

 

[KLB]

Tax the money transfers.
That will capture the cash workers into paying a tax.
It will also make it less of a draw to come to the US.

How long do you think it would take them to find a way to avoid that? I am guessing on average it would be before the first transfer after it was put into effect.

There is only one way the wall will be built, and that is if we pay for it. I do not see the benefit as worth the cost.

 

[jamil]

How long do you think it would take them to find a way to avoid that? I am guessing on average it would be before the first transfer after it was put into effect.

There is only one way the wall will be built, and that is if we pay for it. I do not see the benefit as worth the cost.

Bitcoin?

 

[Alpo]

How much of this simplification of which you speak is yours? If a company ships $200 million of engines and transmissions to Mexico to be included in $600 million in vehicles that are shipped back, who will be hurt if cheap labor is no longer cheap(via tariff). The US company can opt to transfer production to a domestic plant, not without some supply chain disruption. Can the Mexican company begin manufacturing complete cars? How much of Mexico's position as #10 economy is based on this form of production? That is why I spoke of Mexico's native exports as being predominantly agricultural. Very few, if any, manufactured in Mexico complex products are on the US market. No Mexican brand cars, appliances or electronics. They hold no high cards in that hand

And you want to disrupt the supply chain for a wall? LOL

Let's assume for the moment that a trade barrier is met with an embargo. Mexico will suffer unless or until it develops other export relationships. I assume someone in the other parts of the world will want Mexican agricultural products.

Your upper hand is going to be seen as quite foolhardy by American consumers and manufacturers. NAFTA, for all of its issues, works.

Go ahead, push that red button. I dare you.

 

[Brad69]

I may underestimate the ability of a guy who works at a turkey plant. But they all line up at Wal mart to send money home.

Bit coin may be a problem?
I say it's worth a shot
Along with a better wall, deportation, and a path to citizenship.

 

[KLB]

I may underestimate the ability of a guy who works at a turkey plant. But they all line up at Wal mart to send money home.

Bit coin may be a problem?
I say it's worth a shot
Along with a better wall, deportation, and a path to citizenship.

Points two and three I agree with. I would also work to remove government benefits from going to anyone here illegally.

The wall just doesn't interest me. It would/will be a money pit.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I may underestimate the ability of a guy who works at a turkey plant. But they all line up at Wal mart to send money home.

Bit coin may be a problem?
I say it's worth a shot
Along with a better wall, deportation, and a path to citizenship.

I agree with one... deportation. If they're allowed to stay here, then you kinda have to provide a path to citizenship. If we catch and deport them, you'll have to explain to me why they should be given the advantage of a path to citizenship, in comparison to others who want in and haven't broken the law.