The President Trump Immigration Thread

[IndyDave1776]

It looks like we give Mexico an average Of ~$320M worth of aid per year, most of which is helping fight drug cartels. So, I'd say if that money spent is actually effectively combat drug cartels, ending that funding would have the consequence of strengthening the cartels. But, if that money isn't effective then ending the funding is a net win.

Given that the cycle seems to work such that not only does the army escort drug shipments but trains people who as soon as they become proficient, especially in any special forces role, dump the army to join the cartels for much, much better pay, I would say that stopping the money would probably help us even if we don't use it for any purpose relevant to the border.

 

[jamil]

Given that the cycle seems to work such that not only does the army escort drug shipments but trains people who as soon as they become proficient, especially in any special forces role, dump the army to join the cartels for much, much better pay, I would say that stopping the money would probably help us even if we don't use it for any purpose relevant to the border.

That's kind if my thoughts that I suspect that some of that aid is actually aiding the other team. I'm okay with legalizing mj. Heroine, cocaine, probably not. Neverthe less, I've been skeptical of the wall all along. I think it is mainly symbolic and not all that useful for the money it would cost.

 

[jbombelli]

That's kind if my thoughts that I suspect that some of that aid is actually aiding the other team. I'm okay with legalizing mj. Heroine, cocaine, probably not. Neverthe less, I've been skeptical of the wall all along. I think it is mainly symbolic and not all that useful for the money it would cost.

Heroin = drug

Heroine= female hero

 

[jamil]

Heroin = drug

Heroine= female hero

Meh. Distinction without a difference?

 

[Dddrees]

That's kind if my thoughts that I suspect that some of that aid is actually aiding the other team. I'm okay with legalizing mj. Heroine, cocaine, probably not. Neverthe less, I've been skeptical of the wall all along. I think it is mainly symbolic and not all that useful for the money it would cost.

I think there are some Countires that recognize that the real harmful drugs like heroin are better treated as an addiction. That there will always be addicts and they take the approach or treating the addict and not trying to fight the drug, I can't remember which Countries do this, not sure how they approach it, and I have no idea what kind of success they are having. However it seems like it's time we look at doing something different than what we have been doing as that doesn't seem to be working.

 

[HubertGummer]

The problem with The War on Drugs is that it's gone on for how long now? Have we really ever made much progress? Seems to me there will always be addicts. Is The War on Drugs really accomplishing anything anyway? Please don't tell me somehow a wall is going to stop it.

A wall would make it harder for people to cross so it would most defiantly slow it down. Security forces along the wall would help further.

It never will be completley stopped but that doesn't mean we should open up the boarder and do nothing. This article was about drugs, but it could easily be about terorists or the like.

We need secure boarders.

 

[Dddrees]

A wall would make it harder for people to cross so it would most defiantly slow it down. Security forces along the wall would help further.

It never will be completley stopped but that doesn't mean we should open up the boarder and do nothing. This article was about drugs, but it could easily be about terorists or the like.

We need secure boarders.

Ok, so how do we achieve that? Can we agree that Mexico is never going to pay for it? How do we pay for it? Can we agree that certain areas already have the necessary fencing, drones, or whatever where a wall is not necessary? Can we also face facts that a large part of the immigration problem now happens to be that people tend to overstay their visa's. What exactly do we hope this major expenditure of time, resources, and money will reasonably achieve? Is there any common ground where a reasonable consensus can be reached?

 

[Brad69]

1. Improve the current "wall"
2. Tax the money transfers to Mexico and other countries (have you every been in a Walmart on a Friday and seen the transactions)
3. If a person overstays a Visa create a system to identify them if the apply for welfare get pulled over by police etc.
4. Offer a path to citizenship for hard working honest people that want to be Americans.

We just solved the problems simple!

 

[Dddrees]

1. Improve the current "wall"
2. Tax the money transfers to Mexico and other countries (have you every been in a Walmart on a Friday and seen the transactions)
3. If a person overstays a Visa create a system to identify them if the apply for welfare get pulled over by police etc.
4. Offer a path to citizenship for hard working honest people that want to be Americans.

We just solved the problems simple!

But just remember if you impose some sort of fee on one of your trading partners not to mention one of your largest partners you've just imposed a fee on yourself. In the end we're still paying for it.

 

[BugI02]

Not quite correct. If goods from a particular source become expensive enough, alternate sources will rush to fill the market. Excluding the vehicles and appliances we have them manufacture for us, because we have allowed them to be a source of cheap labor just across a tariff-free border (thanks to NAFTA), the export mainly agricultural products. They have a great deal of competition in this space.

If we tighten up on the free-flow of goods manufactured in Mexico at the behest of US corporations (with a tariff structure) then there will be a temporary spike in the cost of those goods while corporations rethink their production strategy, but automobile manufacturers who have plants in the US are well poised to capitalize on this

All in all, Mexico's economy will be crushed while ours shows barely a ripple


ETA:This post does not explore whether crushing Mexico's economy would be a good or a bad thing. I doubt Mexico would let it go anywhere near the point of extremis and we would quickly negotiate a wall payment plan

 

[Dddrees]

Not quite correct. If goods from a particular source become expensive enough, alternate sources will rush to fill the market. Excluding the vehicles and appliances we have them manufacture for us, because we have allowed them to be a source of cheap labor just across a tariff-free border (thanks to NAFTA), the export mainly agricultural products. They have a great deal of competition in this space.

If we tighten up on the free-flow of goods manufactured in Mexico at the behest of US corporations (with a tariff structure) then there will be a temporary spike in the cost of those goods while corporations rethink their production strategy, but automobile manufacturers who have plants in the US are well poised to capitalize on this

All in all, Mexico's economy will be crushed while ours shows barely a ripple

Well goody we crushed them. Hell there's the reason we have so many illegal immigrants to begin with. people seeking a better life came where they could possibly realize that dream or just simply survive.

Besides at this point we actually not only trade with them we actually partner with them in building things. Often we send them or the send us parts that combine to build the finished part.

But in the meantime the chaos or restructuring that you propose cost the consumer. We're going to pay for this restructuring. In the end what do you hope to achieve? What is your goal?

 

[printcraft]

Well goody we crushed them. Hell there's the reason we have so many illegal immigrants to begin with. people seeking a better life came where they could possibly realize that dream or just simply survive....

My neighbor has better **** than me so it's completely ok and justified that I jump the fence and take it. BRB, I'll let you know how it works out.

 

[Dddrees]

My neighbor has better **** than me so it's completely ok and justified that I jump the fence and take it. BRB, I'll let you know how it works out.

Well we kind of went with that line of thinking when most of the world crushed Germany after WWI. Now that didn't seem to work to well then, what makes you think it will work now? It just so happens individuals will sometimes do whatever it takes to get what they want. If people desire it enough they'll generally take the path of least resistance. If they can't get it where they are they'll cross the border if that's the easiest way to get it. If a thief can't earn it he steals it. However if you give more people better opportunities then less will have reason to do those things which are considered illegal.

 

[printcraft]

Well we kind of went with that line of thinking when most of the world crushed Germany after WWI. Now that didn't seem to work to well then, what makes you think it will work now? It just so happens individuals will sometimes do whatever it takes to get what they want. If people desire it enough they'll generally take the path of least resistance. If they can't get it where they are they'll cross the border if that's the easiest way to get it. If a thief can't earn it he steals it. However if you give more people better opportunities then less will have reason to do those things which are considered illegal.

1. I'm not sure what WWI has to do with this. Is mexico germany in this instance? Are you saying mexico is a WWII level of threat?


2. So, it's up to the United States to give other countries better opportunities?
Maybe, just maybe, and I know it sounds crazy, but I think it's up to the rest of the world to get their collective **** together.
Crazy talk.
Or are you saying that it's somehow our fault they can't be successful?

 

[Dddrees]

So, it's up to the United States to give other countries better opportunities?
Maybe, just maybe, and I know it sounds crazy, but I think it's up to the rest of the world to get their collective **** together.
Crazy talk.
Or are you saying that it's somehow our fault they can't be successful?

I'm just saying if you think that keeping people down is a good course of action you might want to seriously re-think that strategy. Because guess what those same people will do their utmost to do whatever they think they need to do to better themselves even if it takes armed conflict. It depends on how desperate they are and sometimes if there is a path of least resistance. In Mexicos case for a time it was illegal immigration. Now that they have better opportunities in their country it is less so.

 

[printcraft]

My neighbor was NOT amused.

I explained to him that it was his responsibility to provide opportunities for me but he didn't seem to be buying my argument.

I told him that he was keeping me down. It might result in armed conflict if he doesn't let me have his ****.

That should work.

 

[BugI02]

Well goody we crushed them. Hell there's the reason we have so many illegal immigrants to begin with. people seeking a better life came where they could possibly realize that dream or just simply survive.

Besides at this point we actually not only trade with them we actually partner with them in building things. Often we send them or the send us parts that combine to build the finished part.

But in the meantime the chaos or restructuring that you propose cost the consumer. We're going to pay for this restructuring. In the end what do you hope to achieve? What is your goal?

Control of our border and the [STRIKE]immigration[/STRIKE] infiltration across it

 

[Dddrees]

My neighbor was NOT amused.

I explained to him that it was his responsibility to provide opportunities for me but he didn't seem to be buying my argument.

I told him that he was keeping me down. It might result in armed conflict if he doesn't let me have his ****.

That should work.

Well I can't help that you fail to see the point I'm trying to make. I didn't say it was your neighbors fault nor did I say it was our fault for their plight or their economic condition. What I was trying to say is that when people find themselves in a bad enough condition they often do whatever it is they need to do to better themselves. Often when it is extremely desperate they can do things which in turn may affect us. So if we desire those outcomes not to interfere with us we might want to go out of our way just a bit to guarantee our well being.

 

[BugI02]

Well we kind of went with that line of thinking when most of the world crushed Germany after WWI. Now that didn't seem to work to well then, what makes you think it will work now? It just so happens individuals will sometimes do whatever it takes to get what they want. If people desire it enough they'll generally take the path of least resistance. If they can't get it where they are they'll cross the border if that's the easiest way to get it. If a thief can't earn it he steals it. However if you give more people better opportunities then less will have reason to do those things which are considered illegal.

Be careful. If you want to stick with this example; then when the strictures put into place after the one failed to keep them in their place and they wrought the two, we utterly destroyed them, demanded unconditional surrender and rebuilt the rubble into societies designed by us to remove the threat for the foreseeable future. We could easily utilize the same strategy with Mexico and simultaneously solve the drug and immigration problems

You should research 'caring fatigue'

 

[Dddrees]

Be careful. If you want to stick with this example; then when the strictures put into place after the one failed to keep them in their place and they wrought the two, we utterly destroyed them, demanded unconditional surrender and rebuilt the rubble into societies designed by us to remove the threat for the foreseeable future. We could easily utilize the same strategy with Mexico and simultaneously solve the drug and immigration problems

You should research 'caring fatigue'

There are similarities though, but your right there are some major differences as well. But typically if you think crushing anyone and keeping them down is a good thing it's not.