The Open Carry Argument

[cbhausen]

I firmly believe, if the world fell into nuclear apocalypse, and there were only two people left alive. They would argue OC vs CC.. Jeez...

Anyone who has feelings of discontent toward another mans chosen carry method, please remember, its our RIGHT, to carry however we damn well please... If you don't like it, TOO BAD!!!! If you think CCers are pussies, or behaving like criminals (because only criminals hide their guns, don't you know) Your an idiot...
If you think OCers are just trying to show the world how big their dicks are by carrying their firearm on their side (because people who OC are all doing it just to show off, don't you know) Your an idiot...

In a WORLD that is becoming more and more anti gun, the LAST thing we need is this in-fighting. Embrace the differences between us, because we all love America, and we all love the rights given to us by this great nation. I know this argument will continue no matter what anyone says, but believe it or not, I think it hurts our cause. Everyone who chooses not to carry a certain way, does so because of their personal beliefs about the matter, and there's no problem stating those in conversation. But there is no reason to use them as ammo against a fellow 2A supporter, who doesn't feel the same way you do. Its silly, junior high school crap, and it makes us look retarded.

Agreed. Please do not equate defending one's preferred method of carry with bashing another's. I prefer OC (although how many of us do this from now until March?). But I don't think CCers are any of those things. If anyone can produce a quote where I outright belittled a CCer I was wrong and owe them an apology. I think most OC/CC debate is taken wrong, though. How many times do we have to say it: Just F'ing Carry.

 

[chipbennett]

I've seen this debate lots of places, and it usually involves quite a bit of animosity. I believe in living and letting live, especially with respect to the lawful exercise of natural rights. I really couldn't care less whether someone else chooses to exercise the right to keep and bear arms by carrying openly or concealed. Why waste time, energy, effort, and focus arguing over the allegedly proper way to carry, when there are people like Feinstein, Bloomberg, and their ilk who are actively trying to take away our rights even to *possess* firearms in the first place?

 

[Bluejeeper]

and we all love the rights given to us by this great nation

Danielson, I hope that you merely misspoke when you typed this. We have basic natural rights as human beings. The are PROTECTED FROM government by the Constitution, the ultimate law of the land, not GRANTED to us by the nation/gov. I know that may seem like a small nitpick, but it's very important for us to know the difference.

JFC

 

[cbhausen]

Danielson, I hope that you merely misspoke when you typed this. We have basic natural rights as human beings. The are PROTECTED FROM government by the Constitution, the ultimate law of the land, not GRANTED to us by the nation/gov. I know that may seem like a small nitpick, but it's very important for us to know the difference.

JFC

Well said.

 

[Bluejeeper]

Well said.

I have my moments, just don't get use to it lol

 

[danielson]

Its a right that most of the world doesnt have... So, yeah, Id say because of America, we have it.. I understand what your saying, its a natural god given right, but because the founding fathers believed we all should have that right, we do. So because we live in America, we can carry firearms... I see no issue with what I said..

 

[protias]

Its a right that most of the world doesnt have... So, yeah, Id say because of America, we have it.. I understand what your saying, its a natural god given right, but because the founding fathers believed we all should have that right, we do. So because we live in America, we can carry firearms... I see no issue with what I said..

The Constitution does not give rights, it reaffirms them.

 

[never2big]

I myself prefer concealed carry but have no problem with either

 

[chipbennett]

Its a right that most of the world doesnt have... So, yeah, Id say because of America, we have it.. I understand what your saying, its a natural god given right, but because the founding fathers believed we all should have that right, we do. So because we live in America, we can carry firearms... I see no issue with what I said..

The problem with what you've said is that, outside of the context of how and why our Constitution is written the way that it is, those rights are no longer understood to be unalienable natural rights, and become understood as being granted to us by government. America does not *give* us rights. America is the greatest nation in the history of the world because it was founded on the principle that those rights are inherent, and government must be restrained from infringing upon them.

Just consider the erosion of rights from our founding to today. How many more generations will it take before the concept of unalienable, natural rights gives way completely to the concept of government-granted rights? That is exactly the intent of our progressive education system. If they get their way, future generations of children will be indoctrinated with such beliefs of government servitude. And once that happens, Those rights will be denied in America, just as they are everywhere else in the world.

That's why the semantics are important.

 

[Bluejeeper]

The problem with what you've said is that, outside of the context of how and why our Constitution is written the way that it is, those rights are no longer understood to be unalienable natural rights, and become understood as being granted to us by government. America does not *give* us rights. America is the greatest nation in the history of the world because it was founded on the principle that those rights are inherent, and government must be restrained from infringing upon them.

Just consider the erosion of rights from our founding to today. How many more generations will it take before the concept of unalienable, natural rights gives way completely to the concept of government-granted rights? That is exactly the intent of our progressive education system. If they get their way, future generations of children will be indoctrinated with such beliefs of government servitude. And once that happens, Those rights will be denied in America, just as they are everywhere else in the world.

That's why the semantics are important.

What this guy said.

 

[Joniki]

[h=1]"Open Carry: It’s Time To Stop the Friendly Fire"[/h]

https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/open-carry-time-stop-friendly-fire/

 

[protias]

"Open Carry: It’s Time To Stop the Friendly Fire"



https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/open-carry-time-stop-friendly-fire/

One of many reasons I'm glad to be part of Wisconsin Carry, Inc!

 

[cbhausen]

EXCELLENT article and well worth the read. This author does a great job expressing so many sensible points regarding the JFC principle and not being our own worst enemy.

 

[danielson]

OK..... Is the constitution the document that does not allow the government to take our firearms away? IS that document the BASIS of America???
So.... Because of America, we can carry our guns... I never said god bless the government. I said the rights were given to us by this nation. You can argue that all you want, but the fact is, THE CONSTITUTION states we have the right. The Constitution is the creation document of this country, so the right is granted to us because we live in America. You can argue all you want about rights being granted vs rights being acknowledged, not to be denied. But its pointless. If not for this country being what it is, and us having the second amendment, we would most likely not be able to carry firearms, period. We have AMERICA to thank for this right, because most of the rest of the world are disarmed by their country. Our founders were smart enough to put a safeguard in place to prevent that. So every time you leave the house with a firearm at your side, be thankful you live in America. God, its no wonder these threads drag on and on and on, you people really will argue about anything...

 

[Bluejeeper]

But the rights are not GIVEN by the nation, or anything else for that matter. We have them. No matter what. Those rights are PROTECTED by the Constitution so that the government does not suppress those rights like we see in other countries. If people start believing that the rights were given to us BY THE NATION, then those rights can be taken away BY THE NATION making them not rights at all. We have the smart men who founded this great nation to thank for PROTECTING our rights in our Founding Documents. Not the nation itself.

It really is important that you see the difference.

 

[ATM]

...its no wonder these threads drag on and on and on, you people really will argue about anything...

Some folks have a hard time letting their incorrect assumptions and logical misunderstandings go when refuted or corrected. Sometimes they make further attempts to support their claims, slightly altering or rephrasing their initial statements but rarely acknowledging or abandoning the nature of their error.

This is not a frustrating situation for everyone involved, I assure you, only the ones being corrected in this learning and teaching process. Surely you can now relate.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

OK..... Is the constitution the document that does not allow the government to take our firearms away? IS that document the BASIS of America???
So.... Because of America, we can carry our guns... I never said god bless the government. I said the rights were given to us by this nation. You can argue that all you want, but the fact is, THE CONSTITUTION states we have the right. The Constitution is the creation document of this country, so the right is granted to us because we live in America. You can argue all you want about rights being granted vs rights being acknowledged, not to be denied. But its pointless. If not for this country being what it is, and us having the second amendment, we would most likely not be able to carry firearms, period. We have AMERICA to thank for this right, because most of the rest of the world are disarmed by their country. Our founders were smart enough to put a safeguard in place to prevent that. So every time you leave the house with a firearm at your side, be thankful you live in America. God, its no wonder these threads drag on and on and on, you people really will argue about anything...

[video=youtube;PoTz3WgZm4c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoTz3WgZm4c[/video]

 

[chipbennett]

OK..... Is the constitution the document that does not allow the government to take our firearms away? IS that document the BASIS of America???
So.... Because of America, we can carry our guns... I never said god bless the government. I said the rights were given to us by this nation.

And that's why your statement is incorrect. I refer you to a document older than the Constitution: the Declaration of Independence, wherein the founders asserted that rights are not given by or derived from the government, but rather are natural rights endowed by God.

This nation does not give us rights; rather, this nation was formed such that the government is explicitly restrained from taking away rights that are natural and inherent.

You can argue that all you want, but the fact is, THE CONSTITUTION states we have the right.

No. The constitution merely affirms that rights exist, and constrains the government from infringing on them.

The Constitution is the creation document of this country, so the right is granted to us because we live in America.

No. We have certain rights because God gave us those rights. Every person living on the planet has the same rights. Most live in countries in which the government is not fundamentally restrained from infringing upon those rights; but even when those rights are infringed, they still exist.

You can argue all you want about rights being granted vs rights being acknowledged, not to be denied. But its pointless.

It's not pointless, because as soon as people start conflating the two, then the door is opened to government bypassing the constitutional restraints against infringement. You think all Americans have the right to keep and bear arms? You're right. Now go try to exercise that right in Washington, D.C, New York City, or Chicago.

If not for this country being what it is, and us having the second amendment, we would most likely not be able to carry firearms, period. We have AMERICA to thank for this right, because most of the rest of the world are disarmed by their country. Our founders were smart enough to put a safeguard in place to prevent that. So every time you leave the house with a firearm at your side, be thankful you live in America. God, its no wonder these threads drag on and on and on, you people really will argue about anything...

I am quite thankful that I live in America. I am quite thankful that our founding fathers were wise enough to set up explicit constraints upon government's ability to infringe upon the rights of the individual. But it is unwise to assert that our rights come from our nation, our government, or our constitution. Even with the constraints put in place by our founding fathers, government encroachment upon our rights today is in many ways much, much worse than the abuses of King George that led to the drafting of the Declaration of Independence. It can get worse, and it will, as long as people believe that our rights are granted by our nation, government, or constitution.

 

[cbhausen]

OK..... Is the constitution the document that does not allow the government to take our firearms away? IS that document the BASIS of America???
So.... Because of America, we can carry our guns... I never said god bless the government. I said the rights were given to us by this nation. You can argue that all you want, but the fact is, THE CONSTITUTION states we have the right. The Constitution is the creation document of this country, so the right is granted to us because we live in America. You can argue all you want about rights being granted vs rights being acknowledged, not to be denied. But its pointless. If not for this country being what it is, and us having the second amendment, we would most likely not be able to carry firearms, period. We have AMERICA to thank for this right, because most of the rest of the world are disarmed by their country. Our founders were smart enough to put a safeguard in place to prevent that. So every time you leave the house with a firearm at your side, be thankful you live in America. God, its no wonder these threads drag on and on and on, you people really will argue about anything...

I sincerely hope you read the responses to this statement with an open mind. Nobody on here has anything to gain by bashing you personally and that's not their intention. Those who love freedom and liberty, those who understand the basis of our rights will have strong reactions to statements like yours, and for good reason. Your words show a fundamental misunderstanding of natural rights as affirmed in our founding documents vs. rights "granted" by governments. What the government giveth, the government can taketh away. Our natural ("God-given" to many) right of self-defense (i.e. survival) precedes and supersedes any right granted by any government anywhere.

 

[danielson]

Bacon... And I DIDNT say the GOVERNMENT granted us the rights to carry our bacon. I said the right was granted to us by this great nation. The second amendment clearly serves to ensure we will always have the right to bear bacon, so because we live in this nation, we still have it. I love arguing, isn't it fun? I will read into what you say, and assume you mean what I hate, so that I can relieve the stress that's pent up inside me from work, and life... To that, I say, BACON *****ES!!!