The Official Redbrush/WSSC IDPA Thread

[DustyDawg48]

YIKES!!! We were in danger of having our WSSC/RB thread knocked off page 1!!!!

Man...it does seem like forever since we've had a match. Still have to wait another week or more, too...

 

[sbcman]

YIKES!!! We were in danger of having our WSSC/RB thread knocked off page 1!!!!

Man...it does seem like forever since we've had a match. Still have to wait another week or more, too...

Good catch! Thanks for the bump

 

[Kisada]

I have been thinking the same thing... seems like forever since last shoot.

On a side note, just installed a FO front, wasn't too difficult.

 

[dgtk]

I have been thinking the same thing... seems like forever since last shoot.

On a side note, just installed a FO front, wasn't too difficult.
View attachment 20956

Wow, that really pops

 

[Kisada]

Wow, that really pops

Yeah, it's pretty nice, and that wasn't even good lighting. The red looks pretty decent too. I didn't realize they were sending a couple small pieces of fiber, so I bought a meter of each. If anyone needs any or knows someone who does, let me know... I have a foot or two of both colors (1mm size) I can let go of cheap.

 

[Grelber]

Yeah, it's pretty nice, and that wasn't even good lighting. The red looks pretty decent too. I didn't realize they were sending a couple small pieces of fiber, so I bought a meter of each. If anyone needs any or knows someone who does, let me know... I have a foot or two of both colors I can let go of cheap.

Great sight (or at least I must think so because that is all I use).
Seems like I've had to replace a broken fiber maybe 3 times son far?
Not that big of a deal as you can shoot without it or replace in short order, but I try to remember to bring fiber & lighter with me just in case.
The whole rear sight leaf fell off my Baer a couple weeks ago, that was more of a problem.

 

[Kisada]

Great sight (or at least I must think so because that is all I use).
Seems like I've had to replace a broken fiber maybe 3 times son far?
Not that big of a deal as you can shoot without it or replace in short order, but I try to remember to bring fiber & lighter with me just in case.
The whole rear sight leaf fell off my Baer a couple weeks ago, that was more of a problem.

Ugh, yeah I could see the rear coming off being a bit more of an issue.
The simplicity of replacement optic makes is pretty cool. I'm not sure why interweb peeps seem to have problems with sights falling out and/or snapping so much. It would seem one would have pretty janky sights or didn't do a proper melt, otherwise I wouldn't see any issues unless maybe your pushing too hard, rolling around in piles of gravel, etc.

 

[DustyDawg48]

That new front looks sweet! You should make a world of difference. You going to drop a set on the M&P45 next?

 

[Kisada]

That new front looks sweet! You should make a world of difference. You going to drop a set on the M&P45 next?

It has crossed my mind. I figured I'll give this one a good test the next 4 outings at RB/WSSC and probably Sellersburg before deciding. The dots aren't bad on the M&P, but the CZ's are really small dots and that pale-green luminescent paint on them leaves a lot to be desired.

On another note, getting the perfect adjustment on the comptac proved a bit tricky, but I think I have it where I like it. Question, do any of you guys have hangups at all? I did notice that it wants to torque a bit if you draw isn't pretty clean... i originally thought it was the screw retention.

 

[DustyDawg48]

It has crossed my mind. I figured I'll give this one a good test the next 4 outings at RB/WSSC and probably Sellersburg before deciding. The dots aren't bad on the M&P, but the CZ's are really small dots and that pale-green luminescent paint on them leaves a lot to be desired.

On another note, getting the perfect adjustment on the comptac proved a bit tricky, but I think I have it where I like it. Question, do any of you guys have hangups at all? I did notice that it wants to torque a bit if you draw isn't pretty clean... i originally thought it was the screw retention.

Yeah, I would have them every one in a while but I think I have it cured. I initially tried to stop it from happening by keeping the top opened more than then the bottom but I'd still get a slight catch on the retention bumps by the trigger guards. I tightened them up a bit more and have been practicing and it seemed to work.

 

[Kisada]

Yeah, I would have them every one in a while but I think I have it cured. I initially tried to stop it from happening by keeping the top opened more than then the bottom but I'd still get a slight catch on the retention bumps by the trigger guards. I tightened them up a bit more and have been practicing and it seemed to work.

I did notice that there is a small molded ledge, below where the safety is, just behind where my thumb would naturally lay... if i give the slightest pressure on that as I draw, it comes out smooth as silk 90% of the time or better. Maybe a bit of counter-pressure against earlier mentioned "torquing".

 

[DustyDawg48]

I did notice that there is a small molded ledge, below where the safety is, just behind where my thumb would naturally lay... if i give the slightest pressure on that as I draw, it comes out smooth as silk 90% of the time or better. Maybe a bit of counter-pressure against earlier mentioned "torquing".

It is weird but I hadn't ever had that happen to me in a match yet. I think I may have loosened it a bit too much when I first got it and I finally have it back to where it needs to be. We will see if I am right during my next practice session!

 

[Kisada]

It is weird but I hadn't ever had that happen to me in a match yet. I think I may have loosened it a bit too much when I first got it and I finally have it back to where it needs to be. We will see if I am right during my next practice session!

Yeah, let me know how that works out. Thinking back, I believe yours seemed a bit looser when I used it than I currently have mine set for. I did try jumping around semi-violently with mine tuned to see what would happen and nothing popped out of place.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Yeah, let me know how that works out. Thinking back, I believe yours seemed a bit looser when I used it than I currently have mine set for. I did try jumping around semi-violently with mine tuned to see what would happen and nothing popped out of place.

Have you tried twerking and see if it stays in?

 

[Kisada]

Have you tried twerking and see if it stays in?

Hah! I don't think I could look myself in the mirror after attempting that (but it would be a good test).
I just googled the term about a week ago or so, shortly before this whole VMA thing went silly...
I'm kind of appalled that dictionaries are supposedly talking of adding it as a real word(s).

 

[DustyDawg48]

Hah! I don't think I could look myself in the mirror after attempting that (but it would be a good test).
I just googled the term about a week ago or so, shortly before this whole VMA thing went silly...
I'm kind of appalled that dictionaries are supposedly talking of adding it as a real word(s).

i know! Took them 100 years to add the word 'Orc' and now it just takes a stupid VMA stunt to get it in the dictionary!

 

[Grelber]

TJ said that the World Shooting Complex in Illinois was something to see, so I just had to go there. Therefore all subsequent bad kharma miserable life sucking events related to same are obviously entirely his fault.

They had a USPSA level 2 match there Saturday, so I paid 100 for entry, another chunck for food and gas, got up at 2:30 a.m., got started shooting at 8:00 and almost made it to lunch time before being disqualified and slouching back in shame. Couldn't leave though because somebody else drove so I had an entire hot afternoon in which to practice my shamed slouching about whilst hearing echo's of 'pishaw' and 'for shame' all around me. It is a little known fact but at USPSA they actually bring buzzards that are trained to circle the demoralized and squawk loudly if a less than sufficient number of people are staring at you. As best I could estimate, 'sufficient number' is somewhere right around 25, but it seemed like the buzzards would lose count now and then and the number seemed to drift high and low.
To make things more special the guy that drove just flat lucked out of screwing up before I did and then was rude enough to win a nice gun and drag my time at the match out to the bloody end, if starlets had then trampled me into bloody dirt while rushing to take him it would have made my day perfect.

Anyway, in that sport if you are starting with a loaded gun on a table muzzle pointing downrange then you are cool if you have a polymer gun or revolver but if you have a 1911 you are not cool unless you have the thumb safety engaged. I haven't been doing this or calling anybody for not doing this in IDPA as long as the muzzle never breaks the 180.
You are also not cool in either sport if you holster a loaded 1911 without putting the thumb safety back on first, I have called folks on this and given them a procedural but not given a dq, in USPSA it would be a DQ.

Pertinent IDPA stuff I can find in the new rulebook is:
2.8. All CoFs will be started with the pistol holstered, safeties engaged as required by different divisions, and hands clear of equipment including the concealment garment unless other positions for the pistol are stipulated in the CoF description, (table top, drawer, pack, purse, in the firing hand, etc.)

and

2.12.3.2. Load and Make Ready
When the shooter has proper eye and hearing protection, the SO will issue the Load and Make Ready command. The shooter will prepare the firearm and magazines to match the start position for the stage. Typically this is to load the firearm and holster, but may include non-typical loading or staging of equipment. The shooter will then assume the starting position necessary for the stage. If the shooter’s firearm is not loaded for the start of a stage the command used will be “Make Ready.”





I'd like to call things right at our local match and all who hold the timer want to be consistent as a group, (and it would hurt folks way less to get dq'd at a $20 local match among friends) so I figured I'd ask the questions:
1. Do the IDPA rules call for a dq the next time a person holsters a 1911 without the thumb safety being on?
2. Do they call for a dq if you place the gun on a table with the safety off and the muzzle pointed down range?

 

[DustyDawg48]

TJ said that the World Shooting Complex in Illinois was something to see, so I just had to go there. Therefore all subsequent bad kharma miserable life sucking events related to same are obviously entirely his fault.

They had a USPSA level 2 match there Saturday, so I paid 100 for entry, another chunck for food and gas, got up at 2:30 a.m., got started shooting at 8:00 and almost made it to lunch time before being disqualified and slouching back in shame. Couldn't leave though because somebody else drove so I had an entire hot afternoon in which to practice my shamed slouching about whilst hearing echo's of 'pishaw' and 'for shame' all around me. It is a little known fact but at USPSA they actually bring buzzards that are trained to circle the demoralized and squawk loudly if a less than sufficient number of people are staring at you. As best I could estimate, 'sufficient number' is somewhere right around 25, but it seemed like the buzzards would lose count now and then and the number seemed to drift high and low.
To make things more special the guy that drove just flat lucked out of screwing up before I did and then was rude enough to win a nice gun and drag my time at the match out to the bloody end, if starlets had then trampled me into bloody dirt while rushing to take him it would have made my day perfect.

Anyway, in that sport if you are starting with a loaded gun on a table muzzle pointing downrange then you are cool if you have a polymer gun or revolver but if you have a 1911 you are not cool unless you have the thumb safety engaged. I haven't been doing this or calling anybody for not doing this in IDPA as long as the muzzle never breaks the 180.
You are also not cool in either sport if you holster a loaded 1911 without putting the thumb safety back on first, I have called folks on this and given them a procedural but not given a dq, in USPSA it would be a DQ.

Pertinent IDPA stuff I can find in the new rulebook is:
2.8. All CoFs will be started with the pistol holstered, safeties engaged as required by different divisions, and hands clear of equipment including the concealment garment unless other positions for the pistol are stipulated in the CoF description, (table top, drawer, pack, purse, in the firing hand, etc.)

and

2.12.3.2. Load and Make Ready
When the shooter has proper eye and hearing protection, the SO will issue the Load and Make Ready command. The shooter will prepare the firearm and magazines to match the start position for the stage. Typically this is to load the firearm and holster, but may include non-typical loading or staging of equipment. The shooter will then assume the starting position necessary for the stage. If the shooter’s firearm is not loaded for the start of a stage the command used will be “Make Ready.”





I'd like to call things right at our local match and all who hold the timer want to be consistent as a group, (and it would hurt folks way less to get dq'd at a $20 local match among friends) so I figured I'd ask the questions:
1. Do the IDPA rules call for a dq the next time a person holsters a 1911 without the thumb safety being on?
2. Do they call for a dq if you place the gun on a table with the safety off and the muzzle pointed down range?

Wow! Sounds like you had a heck of an adventure!

That IDPA rule you provided about the Load and Make Ready...that whole part about having your hands clear of equipment including the concealment garment....wth is that all about? So you can't have a hand or finger on your vest at all?

And the thumb-safety thing... I didn't think and still don't think that not having it engaged is a DQ... I know it says 'mechanical condition of readiness but I thought that was more directed towards the DA/SA guns with a decocker.

that sucks you got DQ for that....

 

[sbcman]

TJ said that the World Shooting Complex in Illinois was something to see, so I just had to go there. Therefore all subsequent bad kharma miserable life sucking events related to same are obviously entirely his fault.

They had a USPSA level 2 match there Saturday, so I paid 100 for entry, another chunck for food and gas, got up at 2:30 a.m., got started shooting at 8:00 and almost made it to lunch time before being disqualified and slouching back in shame. Couldn't leave though because somebody else drove so I had an entire hot afternoon in which to practice my shamed slouching about whilst hearing echo's of 'pishaw' and 'for shame' all around me. It is a little known fact but at USPSA they actually bring buzzards that are trained to circle the demoralized and squawk loudly if a less than sufficient number of people are staring at you. As best I could estimate, 'sufficient number' is somewhere right around 25, but it seemed like the buzzards would lose count now and then and the number seemed to drift high and low.
To make things more special the guy that drove just flat lucked out of screwing up before I did and then was rude enough to win a nice gun and drag my time at the match out to the bloody end, if starlets had then trampled me into bloody dirt while rushing to take him it would have made my day perfect.

Anyway, in that sport if you are starting with a loaded gun on a table muzzle pointing downrange then you are cool if you have a polymer gun or revolver but if you have a 1911 you are not cool unless you have the thumb safety engaged. I haven't been doing this or calling anybody for not doing this in IDPA as long as the muzzle never breaks the 180.
You are also not cool in either sport if you holster a loaded 1911 without putting the thumb safety back on first, I have called folks on this and given them a procedural but not given a dq, in USPSA it would be a DQ.

Pertinent IDPA stuff I can find in the new rulebook is:
2.8. All CoFs will be started with the pistol holstered, safeties engaged as required by different divisions, and hands clear of equipment including the concealment garment unless other positions for the pistol are stipulated in the CoF description, (table top, drawer, pack, purse, in the firing hand, etc.)

and

2.12.3.2. Load and Make Ready
When the shooter has proper eye and hearing protection, the SO will issue the Load and Make Ready command. The shooter will prepare the firearm and magazines to match the start position for the stage. Typically this is to load the firearm and holster, but may include non-typical loading or staging of equipment. The shooter will then assume the starting position necessary for the stage. If the shooter’s firearm is not loaded for the start of a stage the command used will be “Make Ready.”





I'd like to call things right at our local match and all who hold the timer want to be consistent as a group, (and it would hurt folks way less to get dq'd at a $20 local match among friends) so I figured I'd ask the questions:
1. Do the IDPA rules call for a dq the next time a person holsters a 1911 without the thumb safety being on?
2. Do they call for a dq if you place the gun on a table with the safety off and the muzzle pointed down range?

Sorry man! Shouldn't have hyped the place up for you Sounds like a truly miserable time. But, if one must get a DQ, that's not a bad way to get it. Much better than breaking 180 or sending rounds back towards the squad. I had a friend get DQ'ed in the same match for snapping off a round over the berm while reloading. Must have been the match for DQs. (My friend is the Match Director of the MO State IDPA match and club director- can happen to anybody no matter how long they've been in the game).

Revolvers make life so much simpler..

IDPA has no provision for a DQ in either of the questions you've posed. In both the new and old rulebook if a division calls for a safety to be on and the shooter leaves it off, it's a PE. This is a "rule of the game" and in the old and new book falls under the heading of

[FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold]05 – Penalties Rules
[/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][/FONT][FONT=TimesNewRoman,Bold][/FONT]PP1
. Procedural Error (PE): Adds three (3) seconds per infraction and is assessed when:
A competitor fails to follow the procedures set forth in the stage description
A competitor breaks a rule of the game.

 

[Grelber]

Revolvers make life so much simpler..

IDPA has no provision for a DQ in either of the questions you've posed. In both the new and old rulebook if a division calls for a safety to be on and the shooter leaves it off, it's a PE. This is a "rule of the game" and in the old and new book falls under the heading of

05 – Penalties Rules
PP1
. Procedural Error (PE): Adds three (3) seconds per infraction and is assessed when:
A competitor fails to follow the procedures set forth in the stage description
A competitor breaks a rule of the game.

Might be more reason for me to try and work on revolver trigger control this winter. Never understood why you don't like external safeties before .
Been having fun with the 40 though (weekend from hell accepted) and I think I have now got a 3.5 grain Clays 180 grain bullet load that even Mike would be happy about. Not too tart and not too sweet.

I can go with procedurals for either event and be happy calling and doing things exactly as you noted, and if I read Mike correctly as he suggested as well. I'm not sure that I can prove that the table thing is a procedural, depends on what "non-typical loading or staging of equipment" means, but as long as we all call things the same way and don't get folks in the habit of doing things that might be called more harshley somewhere else then it seems like we ought to be good.

I'lll see Scowens today and otherwise get the word out to the RB folks for their input. Maybe Mike would be willing to touch bases with the WSSC folks?