The Official Redbrush/WSSC IDPA Thread

[DustyDawg48]

I also use Power Pistol... run about 5.6gr over 124gr bullet at about 1.125" OAL, if I recall correctly?

I thought this too, any reasons in particular? I've read it helps picking up targets faster, but it seems like that would be the opposite to my brain (i.e. less room to be sloppy with those wider gaps)

"Pimp Loads" in his case run about 1300 fps, give or take?

I think the consensus is that the skinnier sight is to give you more daylight on both sides of the sight as a reference tool. Supposedly easier to make sure the sights are properly aligned.

 

[Grelber]

I also use Power Pistol... run about 5.6gr over 124gr bullet at about 1.125" OAL, if I recall correctly?

I thought this too, any reasons in particular? I've read it helps picking up targets faster, but it seems like that would be the opposite to my brain (i.e. less room to be sloppy with those wider gaps)

"Pimp Loads" in his case run about 1300 fps, give or take?

Ask really good shooters about the best 9mm loads & you get answers like, 147 knocks down steel better and the recoil is more manageable, 115 cycles faster, etc., there is some personal preference involved and things change with choice of gun. If a gun performs equally well with heavy and light bullet weights then I go for 115's (bad shooters have opinions too), ideally loaded to run at about 1150 fps (132 pf). I like that 115's are cheaper and that you fill more of the case when loading them, to me it is a bit more safety margin for reloading oopsies.

Narrow front sights block less view and allow you to see more of the targets. I think they can be a bad idea until you reach a point where you can shoot all down zeros, head shots, small plates and etc at decent speed with the traditional width front sight. I have two similar guns with the different width sights that I go back and forth with sometimes, the narrow one requires more sight discipline/training or else you can throw some bad shots because you did not get a better center on the front site picture, the wide is definitly better (for me) at small targets and stuff like stage 3 of the classifier.

 

[Grelber]

Speaking of accuracy, I think I should have been worried about consistent grip a whole giant big buttload gob lot more and not worried so much about ammo and equipment.

If you watch Eadens or go to a BFT class, you see how to get a consistent positive grip on the draw. If you get a sloppy grip on the draw then you have stuff happen like; first shot goes off before you intended, gun flops around in your hand and accuracy is really bad, weird things happen during reload, gun doesn't flop that much but accuracy is really bad until after reload and you don't know why, you don't activate grip safety, you just really stunk it up on a short stage (no reload) and you don't know why.
Upside is once you know you have a problem you can work on it.
Lots of times watching a shooter I've seen their accuracy go from very good to very bad (or vica versa) on either side of a reload but I never figured out I had major grip problems till recently.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Speaking of accuracy, I think I should have been worried about consistent grip a whole giant big buttload gob lot more and not worried so much about ammo and equipment.

If you watch Eadens or go to a BFT class, you see how to get a consistent positive grip on the draw. If you get a sloppy grip on the draw then you have stuff happen like; first shot goes off before you intended, gun flops around in your hand and accuracy is really bad, weird things happen during reload, gun doesn't flop that much but accuracy is really bad until after reload and you don't know why, you don't activate grip safety, you just really stunk it up on a short stage (no reload) and you don't know why.
Upside is once you know you have a problem you can work on it.
Lots of times watching a shooter I've seen their accuracy go from very good to very bad (or vica versa) on either side of a reload but I never figured out I had major grip problems till recently.

I constantly practice my draw and still don't feel like I always get the best grip on the gun. It is that Catch 22 situation because you don't want to drag your behind in getting TO the gun but you can't go too fast or you are liable to get a terrible grip. I read a great line in a thread talking about draw speed. they said that you cannot win a match at the holster but you sure can lose a match there.

 

[Kisada]

I think my sight picture is pretty good for the most part and I feel I transition around the room while dryfiring pretty quickly. I've attempted to get mor consistency with my draw/grip at the last couple outings/classifier. I have practiced my trigger pulls, keeping sight pictures solid, with case on sight, etc... But I still think consistency is bad from shot to shot, for me personally.

I planned on getting a different sight in general, was just curious on pros/cons of wide vs. narrow(er).

 

[Grelber]

I read a great line in a thread talking about draw speed. they said that you cannot win a match at the holster but you sure can lose a match there.

Hmmm. Saul Kirsch "Perfect Practice" - "A good grip on the gun is more important than speed. A bad grip costs you much more than the two tenths of a second it takes to get a good grip"

So on a 6 stage match I could gain 1.2 seconds with a grab it and go grip, which is less than I lose from just 1 down three. The answer is clear, now if I can just train myself to put in that extra hitch down before coming up from the holster.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Hmmm. Saul Kirsch "Perfect Practice" - "A good grip on the gun is more important than speed. A bad grip costs you much more than the two tenths of a second it takes to get a good grip"

So on a 6 stage match I could gain 1.2 seconds with a grab it and go grip, which is less than I lose from just 1 down three. The answer is clear, now if I can just train myself to put in that extra hitch down before coming up from the holster.

I think the 'take what you can get as quickly as possible' probably only applies to a true self-defense situation where your life is absolutely on the line. I've been working with a shot timer here recently and there hasn't been THAT much time difference between my 'all out grab it and go' type of grip and the 'concentrate on getting to the gun out and get a proper grip' draw.

 

[Exodus]

So I decided to go with 124 grain. Figured I'd save the 147 for when I get better and can use changing to the gamer load to help cut a little time.

 

[DustyDawg48]

So I decided to go with 124 grain. Figured I'd save the 147 for when I get better and can use changing to the gamer load to help cut a little time.

That isn't a bad choice at all. I couldn't tell you how many thousands of 124's I've reloaded without any problem.

 

[Kisada]

So I decided to go with 124 grain. Figured I'd save the 147 for when I get better and can use changing to the gamer load to help cut a little time.

I think you'll be happy with 124's. Seems its more of the upper echelon or those who have done all the gun and holster customizing and whatnot, who are looking for the next thing to better their game. I could see trying 147's but at my level, it'd be a wash like Jeff mentioned... all preference really.

I doubt I could tell the recoil diff. between 124 to 147... Maybe knockdown of plates, but I'd say even that would be trial and error.

 

[Grelber]

Maybe knockdown of plates, but I'd say even that would be trial and error.

I'd like to see a good test of plate dropping ability for curiosities sake. Something thought out and controlled so you get away from all the perception bias stuff. I sorta wonder if it is a bit related to hardness (bounce versus stick and squish) of the bullet as well as weight & speed.

The one thing I do know is that whapping the crap out of them with a larger caliber can relieve stress now and then.

 

[DustyDawg48]

Some of it might be hearsay but a few people were saying that the 115's could possibly start to key-hole at longer ranges. But, 9 grains more and you are into a 124... can't imagine why or how 9 grains of bullet weight would make any difference. That is .0012 of a pound if my maths are correct I do tend to favor a heavier bullet but I haven't shot 147 or 230 grain .45 ACP in a long time.

 

[Grelber]

Some of it might be hearsay but a few people were saying that the 115's could possibly start to key-hole at longer ranges.

I've never seen one key hole, have shot and pasted many thousands. That is not to say that it couldn't happen under the right conditions (lead versus plated versus jacketed ?) or at distances beyond 35 yards or so.

 

[DustyDawg48]

I've never seen one key hole, have shot and pasted many thousands. That is not to say that it couldn't happen under the right conditions (lead versus plated versus jacketed ?) or at distances beyond 35 yards or so.

I do think you have to take any sort of ammo/gun/equipment talk with a grain of salt. We all know there is no shortage of ammo/grain/gun snobbery out there! That 115 keyhole stuff is probably rumor started by a guy looking to sell more 124 and 147 grain bullets.

 

[Grelber]

We all know there is no shortage of ammo/grain/gun snobbery out there!

I call my 40 the '***** at me' gun. Folks you've never met see you shooting one and they will leap over fences to run and tell you how they don't like the recoil on them. Family and friends ask to shoot the gun (and your ammo) and then turn around and gripe at you about it.
It ain't like I'm telling anybody else to go buy one (even though everyone really should).

 

[Kisada]

I call my 40 the '***** at me' gun. Folks you've never met see you shooting one and they will leap over fences to run and tell you how they don't like the recoil on them. Family and friends ask to shoot the gun (and your ammo) and then turn around and gripe at you about it.
It ain't like I'm telling anybody else to go buy one (even though everyone really should).

I can honestly say I've never shot anything in .40, so I can't say from experience. Based on those ballistic tests of all those bullets and gel expansion stuff, it just seems like an unneeded caliber... The 9mm expansion looked almost identical to the 40sw. That and Mike's tennis-elbow (snappiness?) comments just gave me added reason to stick with 9mm and later 45acp.

From a SD perspective...

 

[Grelber]

I can honestly say I've never shot anything in .40, so I can't say from experience. Based on those ballistic tests of all those bullets and gel expansion stuff, it just seems like an unneeded caliber... The 9mm expansion looked almost identical to the 40sw. That and Mike's tennis-elbow (snappiness?) comments just gave me added reason to stick with 9mm and later 45acp.

From a SD perspective...
View attachment 20631

The odds of an organized attack by jello molds are lower than most folks realize . . . . .

But if you don't like the 40 I think you are right that having both a 9 and a 45 is as good as the one 40.

 

[Exodus]

That's funny as hell.

I ordered my bullets at 1 and at 5 had the email they were shipped. $95 for 1k 124gr shipped same day!

 

[Kisada]

That's funny as hell.

I ordered my bullets at 1 and at 5 had the email they were shipped. $95 for 1k 124gr shipped same day!

Good choice! Are those Berry's or Montana's? That's about what I paid per bullet for a case of 3,750 fmjs. I think you can get 1k Berry's plated for $77 here and there if you catch them, but I think that's before any shipping costs.

On a previous note, here's a link to that full page of testing, for anyone interested who hasn't seen it. Not sure if the penetration stats can be correlated to knockdown as far steel or plates are concerned.
Ballistics Tests

 

[Exodus]

They are rocky mountain reloading. Plated but they are very thick plated.

Jedi is running a group buy where you can get berrys at that price but we dont live in nwi.