The Official Redbrush/WSSC IDPA Thread

[DustyDawg48]

Might be more reason for me to try and work on revolver trigger control this winter. Never understood why you don't like external safeties before .
Been having fun with the 40 though (weekend from hell accepted) and I think I have now got a 3.5 grain Clays 180 grain bullet load that even Mike would be happy about. Not too tart and not too sweet.

I can go with procedurals for either event and be happy calling and doing things exactly as you noted, and if I read Mike correctly as he suggested as well. I'm not sure that I can prove that the table thing is a procedural, depends on what "non-typical loading or staging of equipment" means, but as long as we all call things the same way and don't get folks in the habit of doing things that might be called more harshley somewhere else then it seems like we ought to be good.

I'lll see Scowens today and otherwise get the word out to the RB folks for their input. Maybe Mike would be willing to touch bases with the WSSC folks?

I'd like to try that .40 round; I know you can shoot Production and everybody shoots Minor there but if I ever wanted to really dive into USPSA having a decent .40 cal round would be a good idea.

Your timing is good; we have a committee meeting tonight and I will try to remember about this incident and make sure everybody is on the same page. A DQ is a serious call from a MD/SO/RO and to me, it isn't one that should be taken lightly. Obviously doing something unsafe like dropping a loaded gun, constant 'Finger' calls or something along those lines but having the thumb safety on a 1911 in the 'off' position is a bit of a bad call, in my opinion.

 

[DustyDawg48]

I did notice that there is a small molded ledge, below where the safety is, just behind where my thumb would naturally lay... if i give the slightest pressure on that as I draw, it comes out smooth as silk 90% of the time or better. Maybe a bit of counter-pressure against earlier mentioned "torquing".

I was doing some draw practice and I noticed that once in a while I would get my gun 'trapped' in the holster and I couldn't figure out why. I didn't think I could twist the gun to catch it on the retention bumps...but what I found out was I would occasionally press to firmly on the side of my holster while trying to draw...much like you would press on the retention lever on a Blackhawk Serpa. It would press the side of the holster into the gun and trap it in there. It would only happen about 1 in 100 draws but I figured out what my problem was any way. Just being conscience of what i was doing did help.

 

[sbcman]

Might be more reason for me to try and work on revolver trigger control this winter. Never understood why you don't like external safeties before .
Been having fun with the 40 though (weekend from hell accepted) and I think I have now got a 3.5 grain Clays 180 grain bullet load that even Mike would be happy about. Not too tart and not too sweet.

I can go with procedurals for either event and be happy calling and doing things exactly as you noted, and if I read Mike correctly as he suggested as well. I'm not sure that I can prove that the table thing is a procedural, depends on what "non-typical loading or staging of equipment" means, but as long as we all call things the same way and don't get folks in the habit of doing things that might be called more harshley somewhere else then it seems like we ought to be good.

I'lll see Scowens today and otherwise get the word out to the RB folks for their input. Maybe Mike would be willing to touch bases with the WSSC folks?

Now you know

I think for starts that are outside the realm of loaded to division capacity and holstered the COF description needs to be very clear about how to start. Most of the time it's just assumed that if your division requires them on then they are on, but clarity is a very good way of avoiding problems.

 

[DustyDawg48]

I think that anything that *can* be 'cocked and locked' should be no matter the start position whether in the holster, on a table or wherever...even in the Classifier for the support-hand string it states that the safety may be off so to me it is implied that it is always to be on whenever you start a COF. But a DQ for that offense is way WAY too harsh. A verbal for the 1st and PE for the 2nd should be the way that should play out...then maybe...maybe an FTDR after that..but a DQ is harsh.

 

[Bosshoss]

Jeff did you get DQ before the start signal? IMO the RO should make sure shooter is compliant with the start position required by WSB before ever starting shooter. The RO was technically right if you layed a 1911 down with the safety off (don't know why anyone would do that anyway.)
But as a RO I would just remind the shooter that he needed the safety on before I started them.
Wasn't there or don't know all the details but I don't agree with the call as stated.
IMO a safety rule should not be a penalty but a DQ. I 'm just not sure you broke a safety rule If I understand what happened right.
Why would someone holster or want to start a course of fire with the safety off with a 1911? Scares me.

 

[Kisada]

Not sure where I read it or if I dreamed it up, but I believe I read that any firearm with a safety should have it in working order and be engaged at all times, where applicable. When I first ran my CZ, I always load & kick the thumber on every time, without even thinking. I also agree 110% that your situation should've only called for a procedural at most, DQ was way harsh.

On a side note, can you engage a 1911 safety with the hammer down? On my 75, it cannot be moved without hammer back, so I wouldn't be able to go safe and holster up, say at the end of a COF (not that I'd see a reason to). On the other hand, the M&P can be flipped on/off willy-nilly, without regard to chambering, striker cocking, etc.

 

[sbcman]

On the other hand, the M&P can be flipped on/off willy-nilly, without regard to chambering, striker cocking, etc.

And they can be taken clean out. But such does not accord with the in IDPA.





Unless it came that way when you got it

 

[DustyDawg48]

I don't understand why you cannot take a thumb safety out of an M&P45 but can own the same exact model without one. I don't know why one is legal and the other isn't. Of course this is all talking about Tier 2 and higher matches where it would count; I seriously doubt anybody at WSSC or RB would have an issue if somebody was shooting a gun that had that mod.

 

[sbcman]

I don't understand why you cannot take a thumb safety out of an M&P45 but can own the same exact model without one. I don't know why one is legal and the other isn't. Of course this is all talking about Tier 2 and higher matches where it would count; I seriously doubt anybody at WSSC or RB would have an issue if somebody was shooting a gun that had that mod.

Good point, especially since S&W themselves sells the "plugs" for removed safeties. Think about that- if a manufacturer is fine with the safety being taken out in today's litigation fueled society, that's saying something.

Mainly that even S&W hates external safeties.

Of course all of this is just academic for me. Everyone knows I won't run the 45 in a match. I'm way too cheap to loose all that brass

 

[DustyDawg48]

My gripe would be along the lines of putting a part that is available on one gun on another gun and it is still legal. For instance. the extended slide release on a Glock 34 only comes on a select few models but you can buy one, since it is factory produced by Glock, and install it on any other model of Glock. Why can't you remove the thumb safety on an M&P and it be legal? If the M&P45 only came with a TS and you removed it then it should be considered an illegal modification...but that is just silly.

 

[sbcman]

Just checked the squad list for nationals. Unusual feeling seeing one's name under Miculek's as the only 2 ESR/MA in the match.

I'm gonna take him down


































Or at least win my class

 

[DustyDawg48]

Just checked the squad list for nationals. Unusual feeling seeing one's name under Miculek's as the only 2 ESR/MA in the match.

I'm gonna take him down


































Or at least win my class

Dont rule out the laxative route!

 

[sbcman]

Dont rule out the laxative route!

Not on a public forum! Come on man!!

 

[dgtk]

I saw this on the "Gunnuts" blog... "What your IDPA division says about you". Very, very funny....

What your IDPA Division says about you | Gun Nuts Media

 

[Grelber]

Jeff did you get DQ before the start signal? IMO the RO should make sure shooter is compliant with the start position required by WSB before ever starting shooter. The RO was technically right if you layed a 1911 down with the safety off (don't know why anyone would do that anyway.)
But as a RO I would just remind the shooter that he needed the safety on before I started them.
Wasn't there or don't know all the details but I don't agree with the call as stated.
IMO a safety rule should not be a penalty but a DQ. I 'm just not sure you broke a safety rule If I understand what happened right.
Why would someone holster or want to start a course of fire with the safety off with a 1911? Scares me.

Was DQ'd before the start signal.

When I've seen a gun holstered with safety off it was a mental error and I think it sort of comes from shooting a Glock this week and a 1911 next week kind of thing.

Starting a course of fire with a 1911 pointed safely downrange (and a functional grip safety) did not seem unsafe to me and certainly not any less safe than say staring with a glock or xdm that had a 2 1/2 pound trigger job. Regardless though, maybe I was wrong, and I ain't a gonna do it again.

Next time I will look for you as R.O. I can paste well and have been known to bring ice water. There seems to be strong emotion about an R.O. warning someone to flip the safety on though , best if I just keep folks out of that spot.

 

[Exodus]

I haven't looked at the list for the kolonel but is jerry going? If so I'm a lot more nervous now.

 

[sbcman]

I haven't looked at the list for the kolonel but is jerry going? If so I'm a lot more nervous now.

No, Jerry won't be making that one.



Mainly because he will FEAR having to shoot against me again!

 

[sbcman]

I saw this on the "Gunnuts" blog... "What your IDPA division says about you". Very, very funny....

What your IDPA Division says about you | Gun Nuts Media

Enhanced Service Revolver
What you think it says: I blend old school technology and new thinking with my mastery of the art of the wheelgun. Using these moonclips, I can reload as fast as a semi-auto and compete with the “bottom-feeders.”
What other people think: Is your name Jerry? It isn’t? Okay, have fun over there with the other two guys in your division.

He got me! I actually do call them "bottom feeders"

Caleb is on my squad at nats and he's running SSR (thankfully, another wheelgunner on my squad LOL).

 

[dgtk]

He got me! I actually do call them "bottom feeders"

Caleb is on my squad at nats and he's running SSR (thankfully, another wheelgunner on my squad LOL).

Speaking of, I was looking at squads for Sellersberg and meant to offer to swap squads with a revolver shooter if you wanted to have some wheel gun company. I think you mentioned you knew several of them but squad 1 is all full up. I'm a newbie and will probably be enthralled with the whole experience no matter what squad I'm on. Happy to make room for them if you like.

Also, wondering if, at this weekend's RB match, I could get an SO to give my gear the once over to ensure it is IDPA legal, e.g. pistol not too far away from the body, vest is legit, etc... Hate to go all that way and not be able to get in the door!

There is a match this w.e., right? Haven't seen an email come through

 

[DustyDawg48]

Speaking of, I was looking at squads for Sellersberg and meant to offer to swap squads with a revolver shooter if you wanted to have some wheel gun company. I think you mentioned you knew several of them but squad 1 is all full up. I'm a newbie and will probably be enthralled with the whole experience no matter what squad I'm on. Happy to make room for them if you like.

Also, wondering if, at this weekend's RB match, I could get an SO to give my gear the once over to ensure it is IDPA legal, e.g. pistol not too far away from the body, vest is legit, etc... Hate to go all that way and not be able to get in the door!

There is a match this w.e., right? Haven't seen an email come through

There should be! There had better be! I've got he itch to turn gunpowder into noise in a bad bad way! Good call on the gear. I think I'm legal but it wouldn't hurt to get a once over myself, too.