The Official Hot Rod Thread - Part 4: Burnouts for Distance

[bobzilla]

Any chance you have a borescope, take a look in the cylinder

No I do not sadly.

 

[Jaybird1980]

No I do not sadly.

Since it's a fairly fresh rebuild I would probably take it apart and have a look. Probably a quick refresh and try to sell it.

I was thinking you were talking about a new engine.

 

[bobzilla]

Since it's a fairly fresh rebuild I would probably take it apart and have a look. Probably a quick refresh and try to sell it.

I was thinking you were talking about a new engine.

New-ish. This thing has maybe 2500 miles on it in the 2 years.

 

[Jaybird1980]

New-ish. This thing has maybe 2500 miles on it in the 2 years.

Kind of curious what has went wrong. Is the PCV setup good on it?

 

[bobzilla]

Kind of curious what has went wrong. Is the PCV setup good on it?

It did not have one originally. It does now with baffled valve covers.

 

[churchmouse]

It did not have one originally. It does now with baffled valve covers.

I would pull the head at least and have a look. Has it fouled a particular plug or plugs? Run a compression test down the bad side. If you are pushing the dipstick out it would seem like more than a ring.
My 69 bracket Camaro started heaving like this but no real oil smoke. I pulled the heads (BBChevy with cast iron Merlin world heads) and found a hole in the top of a piston. A prefect 1/8" hole that was not there when I put the engine together.
We had dropped an intake valve head and it danced around in the engine tearing up 2 cylinders because my good friend was running the car that day and I was driving the Biscayne. He knew something had popped and the ****ing idiot "Drove" it back to the trailer. I was livid pissed off. He did not understand my angst. But when I got it tore down and have to have 2 new sleeves installed/furnace welded the head and new valves and seats put in 3 cylinders and 3 new pistons he understood.
Anyway, we could not directly match the pistons in the time allowed and bought a heavier replacement. The machine shop removed weight from the area above the wrist pin to match the other pistons. They got danger close to the top and we popped a hole in the piston in one of the thin spots. Noticed a lot of blow by and ran comp test. #3 was well down. Had a hole in it.
I pulled the engine. Pulled the piston and checked the rest of the work. The heads were assembled when I picked them up as they were paid to check/replace any bad guides and set spring height/pressure. The 1sy intake i pulled was so loose in the guide it actually dropped down when I took it off the seat.. You could see it drop. I pulled the heads down and every guide was loose. Gee I wonder why I dropped a valve as they were supposed to be OK from a paid for refresh.

I took the piston and went to the shop. Thats is as close as I have ever come to being arrested and not being arrested. Yes I went a bit insane.

This led to me scraping the rotating assembly and valve train. I missed 1/3rd of the points season but when the car rolled back out of the trailer at the track it was a 496 stroker with a full mechanical roller valve train and "WAY" big compression. The heads were all newly redone with bronze guides and new valves (a tad bit bigger as room allowed)
and I put every nut and bolt and bearing and rings and wrist pins together myself. My buddy Tom Hooker did a marvelous job on the heads for me.
Jake Grey avoids me like the black plague to this day.

Yeah, I would run the comp test. Pull and check the plugs.

 

[bobzilla]

I know it’s running a bit rich as well. Needs jetted down but that’s not something I’m comfortable with. I hate pulling plugs with these headers.

 

[jeffsqartan]

Started buying parts.
Also slowly listing parts from the Mustang. Hopefully someone is buying one of the intakes I have.
I've got two GT40 intakes. One is already on a 302. Think I might pull it off and sell it, offer the stock manifold (cause I still have it) with the 302. Those gaskets have to be replaced when doing the timing cover anyway. Least I'm pretty sure... I should double check that.

Anyway.
Just bought some fuel parts for my truck. Sounds like progress in the wrong direction, but I think my lift pump is dying. 40psi at idle and cruise, but if I so much as breathe on the throttle it starts dropping. Get into it heavy and it drops to 15 or lower in a hurry. Truth is, I hate the Ford pump anyway. The factory Cummins mechanical pump, with the upgraded spring I have in it, is much better. Not to mention, it starts to run dry at 26 gallons. This is at least a 32 gallon tank, if not more. There's so much fuel left in it.
I'm following a write up from a few years back on the Cummins forum. Guy did some awesome research and engineered his own fuel system for the Cummins. Using a Deviant fuel sump, frame mounted filter, and -8an fuel lines all the way to the lift pump, then out the lift pump and to the injection pump. Even went so far as to drill out and re-tap some of the smaller holes to make it true -8an all the way through to the injection pump. I won't be going that far right now.

Ordered my fuel sump from Deviant and a couple of filters and a filter head from Vulcan Performance. Got a water/fuel separator filter that has a drain on it. And just to have a backup in case that one starts leaking and gives me trouble, I bought a non-WIF style filter, too.
Once those come in, I'll plan out the system, get things mounted, and run over to Earl's for fittings and hose. Hoping to run a stainless braided line like what I got for my turbo oil drain the other day. Already have the lines and fittings from the lift pump to the injection pump, so should only need like 20 feet of line and fittings to get to the lift pump.

Here's the write-up if anyone wants to read. Some really cool stuff and math on it. Guy claims that the factory lift pump, with -8an lines and no restrictions, can support up to 1,000hp (there's actually some scenarios where this has been accidentally proven true).

https://www.cumminsforum.com/threads/d89s-super-fantastic-fuel-system-escapade.1622154/

 

[jeffsqartan]

Would anyone know why I should or should not put a fuel filter before my lift pump on my truck?
The factory setup, if I remember correctly (I've never had a true factory setup) goes
tank - fuel heater - lift pump - fuel filter - injection pump

I want it to go
sump - fuel/water separator - fuel filter - lift pump - injection pump

I'm unsure why the factory has the filter after the lift pump. I don't have a fuel heater anymore. I know, with a sump, I should be putting at least a fuel/water separator before the lift pump. The thread that I'm going off of, the guy is taking the factory filter head, leaving it in place, and drilling out and re-tapping the filter assembly to get larger lines/holes going through it.

There's multiple reasons I don't want to do that. A, more stuff to buy and mess with; B, I don't like the location of the filter head on the Fummins. It's hard to get to the filter.

Moving the filter to the frame rail makes changing filters much easier. And the new filter head that I'm planning on using will have 10orb lines (10an, basically) which should flow much, much better than the factory setup drilled out. I'm only running -8 line from the tank all the way to the injection pump.

I know that was a lot, but I wanted to fully explain why I want to change the setup. I'm just unsure if there's a REASON why the filter needs to be after the lift pump, especially with my setup. My logic would be, there shouldn't be anything introduced into the system once the filters are in place. I could see how the fuel heater could have an element inside that could go bad and get sent to the injection pump. Considering that's no longer on the truck, I'm not sure if there's anything else that could be an issue.

 

[Brad69]

I know on a Cummins ISX they are after the lift pump. So it’s tank, lift pump, Davco, filter. My understanding is a filter before the lift will cause the lift pump work much harder than it was designed for.

Detroit and Cat typically don’t use lift pumps. Personally I would use a Davco style fuel/water separator with a heater. They are not expensive and will provide the filter with clean heated fuel.
They have saved me a few times when I have got bad fuel.

 

[gregkl]

I know on a Cummins ISX they are after the lift pump. So it’s tank, lift pump, Davco, filter. My understanding is a filter before the lift will cause the lift pump work much harder than it was designed for.

Detroit and Cat typically don’t use lift pumps. Personally I would use a Davco style fuel/water separator with a heater. They are not expensive and will provide the filter with clean heated fuel.
They have saved me a few times when I have got bad fuel.

Little trivial side note. The ISX breather tube assembly is one of the programs that I manage at work. We produce it for Dana.

 

[jeffsqartan]

I know on a Cummins ISX they are after the lift pump. So it’s tank, lift pump, Davco, filter. My understanding is a filter before the lift will cause the lift pump work much harder than it was designed for.

Detroit and Cat typically don’t use lift pumps. Personally I would use a Davco style fuel/water separator with a heater. They are not expensive and will provide the filter with clean heated fuel.
They have saved me a few times when I have got bad fuel.

I asked the same question over on the Cummins forum and actually got a really good response. They said the same as you - putting much more than a screen in front of the lift pump will keep it from properly pumping. I do know there is a screen inside the LP inlet, but I want something I can change easier than pulling the lift pump off the truck.

They suggested an inline filter that has a half inch line on both sides. Gonna pick that up and put it in.

I really hate the location of the factory filter, but there's not really anywhere better to put the thing. I guess I'll think on it. I might be able to come up with something. Gonna ditch the factory filter housing and install the new one and run the Donaldson filter I bought. Probably not the water separator filter - never had issues with water in my fuel. Always a first for everything, though. Haha

 

[Jaybird1980]

I asked the same question over on the Cummins forum and actually got a really good response. They said the same as you - putting much more than a screen in front of the lift pump will keep it from properly pumping. I do know there is a screen inside the LP inlet, but I want something I can change easier than pulling the lift pump off the truck.

They suggested an inline filter that has a half inch line on both sides. Gonna pick that up and put it in.

I really hate the location of the factory filter, but there's not really anywhere better to put the thing. I guess I'll think on it. I might be able to come up with something. Gonna ditch the factory filter housing and install the new one and run the Donaldson filter I bought. Probably not the water separator filter - never had issues with water in my fuel. Always a first for everything, though. Haha

Putting a filter before the pump is not a good idea. It's a pump not a sucker. You want as much supply as possible to the intake side of a pump. Even the screens and socks can ruin a pump if they get stuff plugging them up. Pushing the fluid through the filter is the way to go.

 

[thunderchicken]

All I can say right now, is race cars... I need a sugar momma

 

[femurphy77]

All I can say right now, is race cars... I need a sugar momma

I'm keepin' mine! Although not a sugar momma in the true sense she doesn't bat an eye when the UPS or Fedex Truck pull up out front with new toys.

 

[bobzilla]

I realized tonight I’m just not in love with the truck anymore. It’s just frustrating to me now.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I realized tonight I’m just not in love with the truck anymore. It’s just frustrating to me now.

So what's the buy it now price?

 

[jeffsqartan]

All I can say right now, is race cars... I need a sugar momma

It hurts, doesn't it?
I still haven't heard anything other than, "call me next week" from my engine builder. ECU is supposed to be ordered if my FIL placed the order. I want it done so bad though.

We took the Chump car to Putnam this weekend. I didn't race. Now I want to race. Badly.

 

[thunderchicken]

I'm keepin' mine! Although not a sugar momma in the true sense she doesn't bat an eye when the UPS or Fedex Truck pull up out front with new toys.

Oh I'm keep mine too. You know how they can be a love hate relationship lol.

 

[thunderchicken]

It hurts, doesn't it?
I still haven't heard anything other than, "call me next week" from my engine builder. ECU is supposed to be ordered if my FIL placed the order. I want it done so bad though.

We took the Chump car to Putnam this weekend. I didn't race. Now I want to race. Badly.

I wouldn't say it hurts. Just the nature of the beast, they can be frustrating.

After making some changes to the car for this year, finally made it out for my first bracket race (always been a heads up car) on Saturday.
First time run wasn't bad, in fact it was encouraging. 2nd time run, for no apparent reason it tossed the oil pump belt at full song but was shut off before anything disastrous happened. Put the belt back on and adjusted the tension and had 85 psi oil pressure so not too concerned as engines are fairly resilient. Started it up to roll in the water box for eliminations and thought wow seems to be idling kinda high, everything seems ok so lets go. Launched it and ran it out but it felt kinda lazy the whole run. Get the time slip and wtf is going on here. How the heck did we lose 4 tenths and 12 mph since the first pass?
Loading the car up it just doesn't sound right it doesn't sound as crisp as normal.
We get digging this evening and find spark plugs in 2 cylinders (1 on each side) wet. Yank the valve covers to have a look and find intake push rods and rockers damaged and both valve stems beat up. One valve tip is broke off basically flush with the keepers.
Will call the engine shop tomorrow and see about parts availability, turn around time, cost etc.

There's a meme for it but it's just part of the 4 stages of owning a race car.
1- hell yeah it runs
2- sure I'll race
3- what's that noise
4- darn thing is always breaking