The 2017 General Political discussion thread, Part 2!

[Kirk Freeman]

Macklemore leads crowd chanting 'F--k Donald Trump' at Arizona concert | Fox News

Contribution in kind to the Re-Elect Trump 2020 campaign?

 

[Alpo]

His "sold out" concert: 2500 attendees.

Not exactly a mega-star. The Kaepernick of music?

 

[Liberty1916]

Perhaps what you detect is a backlash against those who feel education is unimportant, or are envious of those who have put in the time and made the sacrifices necessary to go to college and improve the lives of their families and, to some extent, people outside their "tribe" through their contributions.

That wasn't it. You got your feelings hurt when I said most colleges are just indoctrination centers. And, I'm still taking bets on whether or not I have a degree if you want to put any money down.

 

[ATM]

So, we both need to try harder?

More cowbell.

 

[Alpo]

That wasn't it. You got your feelings hurt when I said most colleges are just indoctrination centers. And, I'm still taking bets on whether or not I have a degree if you want to put any money down.

I really don't care whether you have a degree or not. But, when you make a claim such as "most colleges" with no evidence, then I'll assume your degree wasn't STEM. .... or you slept through those lectures.

 

[Liberty1916]

I really don't care whether you have a degree or not. But, when you make a claim such as "most colleges" with no evidence, then I'll assume your degree wasn't STEM. .... or you slept through those lectures.

You make a lot of assumptions about people you know nothing about.

Evidence? Every single poster after my comment agreed based on their own personal experiences attending college. Maybe they weren't indoctrination centers back in the 50's when you attended. Now they are.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Perhaps what you detect is a backlash against those who feel education is unimportant, or are envious of those who have put in the time and made the sacrifices necessary to go to college and improve the lives of their families and, to some extent, people outside their "tribe" through their contributions.

...

As to the importance of education in general, and college in particular, I whole-heartedly agree with you that it is very important in life, perhaps one of the most important life decision a young adult makes in high school, with life long repercussions. All of my kids grew up knowing the expectation for them was academic achievement to the top of their ability and college... I'm happy to say, a successful parental expectation.

I would disagree some that there is a "backlash" on the necessity of college, however, I do see sports, for example, over-emphasized versus academics in high school and college, very visibly in the money available for scholarships based upon academic or athletic merit. I'll definitely grant you that.

But I also see kids who just naturally would enjoy learning, say, diesel mechanics at a vocational institution, or becoming an apprentice craftsman/person being pushed into college, unsuccessfully. It's not for everyone, and I see distinction in those who graduate at the top of their class, as well as being the best carpenter or plumber in the area. Both are something to be proud of, IMO.

His "sold out" concert: 2500 attendees.

Not exactly a mega-star. The Kaepernick of music?

Ok, now that there is funny!

 

[Alpo]

Absolutely agree.

College bashing is the same as bashing a craftsman or merchant (or a career soldier). People who are successful at any endeavor are ripe for the sniping comments by those who are envious or have no idea what sacrifices are made by those who achieve some level of success in their field.

Perhaps I shouldn't get upset with folks who say: All colleges are propaganda machines. Or with those who agree with them.

But, sometimes such absurd comments should not be allowed to stand unanswered.

 

[Liberty1916]

Absolutely agree.

College bashing is the same as bashing a craftsman or merchant (or a career soldier). People who are successful at any endeavor are ripe for the sniping comments by those who are envious or have no idea what sacrifices are made by those who achieve some level of success in their field.

Perhaps I shouldn't get upset with folks who say: All colleges are propaganda machines. Or with those who agree with them.

But, sometimes such absurd comments should not be allowed to stand unanswered.

Maybe you shouldn't take it personally and try to separate what's being said about colleges from the individual achievements of the people who attend those colleges (which was NEVER impugned, you just made that assumption).

As I mentioned in the other thread, a perfect example of what I meant took place last week. My son is a STEM grad student (PhD) but was forced to attend a mandatory "diversity/inclusion/pro-gay/blah blah" seminar. The college forcing the indoctrination of their SJW garbage on students has NO bearing on my son's achievements as a scientist. And my son, just like the people who replied to the thread, would agree with me that his college seeks to indoctrinate students with their leftist BS. If you separate individual achievements from college policy/programs, the indoctrination charge will make sense without hurting your feelings.

 

[jamil]

Perhaps what you detect is a backlash against those who feel education is unimportant, or are envious of those who have put in the time and made the sacrifices necessary to go to college and improve the lives of their families and, to some extent, people outside their "tribe" through their contributions.

As to the Trumps, it isn't obvious that their education "took".

Is this about the dustup over people complaining about colleges being propoganda mills today?

I wouldn't say it's that people feel education is unimportant, that's a sentiment unexpressed in that discussion. The sentiment expressed to me seems more to the point that not having gone to college doesn't disqualify them from having a valid opinion about how colleges are run today. If that were true, then it's also reasonable to say that unless you're currently in college today, your opinion about what's happening in college today is of no greater value than someone who's never gone to college.

College has changed a lot since I graduated. I don't remember so many "studies" classes, and I don't remember ever being fed "critical theory" nonsense in the humanities classes I had to take. And I never had mandatory sensitivity training, or whatever they call it. But I digress.

 

[jamil]

Absolutely agree.

College bashing is the same as bashing a craftsman or merchant (or a career soldier). People who are successful at any endeavor are ripe for the sniping comments by those who are envious or have no idea what sacrifices are made by those who achieve some level of success in their field.

Perhaps I shouldn't get upset with folks who say: All colleges are propaganda machines. Or with those who agree with them.

But, sometimes such absurd comments should not be allowed to stand unanswered.

Again, I did not take that as saying that makes a college education of no value at all. What I got out of it is that it's harder for students to come out of college still sane.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Maybe you shouldn't take it personally and try to separate what's being said about colleges from the individual achievements of the people who attend those colleges (which was NEVER impugned, you just made that assumption).

As I mentioned in the other thread, a perfect example of what I meant took place last week. My son is a STEM grad student (PhD) but was forced to attend a mandatory "diversity/inclusion/pro-gay/blah blah" seminar. The college forcing the indoctrination of their SJW garbage on students has NO bearing on my son's achievements as a scientist. And my son, just like the people who replied to the thread, would agree with me that his college seeks to indoctrinate students with their leftist BS. If you separate individual achievements from college policy/programs, the indoctrination charge will make sense without hurting your feelings.

Way back when, the "diversity" was the requirement to take a non-Western culture humanity for any BS degree. Now it's more of a gender/diversity requirement, which is propaganda, IMO. The difference is with the STEM students, it's one or two classes that are specifically diversity, and a sprinkling of hard leftists spouting their "crap" in the humanities sections... which with a little planning, you can usually avoid the worst profs. Whereas Liberal Arts majors could encounter it in EVERY, SINGLE CLASS, except in College Algebra and their physical science requirement classes.

With STEM, ain't nobody got time for that! Some Liberal Arts degrees (i.e. the ones that end up as Starbucks' baristas)... all the time in the world for shenanigans encouraged by their leftists profs... who, for all their pro-feminism, think that boffing coeds is one of the perks of the job that should just be hunky-dory. No power imbalance there, lol!

 

[Alpo]

I always thought that those "seminars" we had on soft social issues were a waste of time at work...until I recognized that some of the guys really did treat people poorly and we were getting harassment complaints. So, some people obviously never learned at home to treat other humans with respect and dignity in a work environment. Go figure.

But, I also remember smoking cigarettes or cigars in board meetings. Until someone who didn't like smoke was brought in as CEO.

And we used to have a couple of drinks at lunch.

Ahhh the good old days!

I haven't really been following the Weinstein thread, but is there any doubt in anyone's mind that you should NOT grab a handful of whatever at work today? Do we need lectures on that? Apparently, some have not got the message so the rest of us have to sit through that crap.

And we shouldn't drink and drive...but we even get cops who get arrested for DUI.

What is it with humans? Mom told us to do "the next right thing"...but somewhere along the way "nah, **** it" sounded and felt so much better.

So, maybe all those leftist diversity speeches is our punishment for not speaking up or knocking the crap out of the asses among us.

 

[BugI02]

Vis a vis the 'improvements' that the vast majority of the Ivy League educated wish to make to my life, they are so obviously self-serving and destructive to Liberty and I'll take a pass

They don't wish to ask what the people in flyover might want, they want to tell them what they should want. How many semesters or undergrad arrogance are pre-requisites?

I only really respect their engineers. But something (bad) has happened. I just can't imagine Princeton (and maybe not even MIT) turning out a Feynman today. The most obviously brilliant individual I've had the pleasure of working with so far was out of Case

 

[BugI02]

I really don't care whether you have a degree or not. But, when you make a claim such as "most colleges" with no evidence, then I'll assume your degree wasn't STEM. .... or you slept through those lectures.

Would you still take that bet if we amended it to "most [ivy-league] colleges [have become] [SJW] indoctrination centers"

 

[Alpo]

No, and here's why:

I attended a couple of California universities...and another one on the east coast. There were and still are a large contingent of anarchist/communist/nihilist malcontents on those campuses. There were/are a lot of beer-drinking obnoxious frat boys there as well. Almost all of us are able to wade our way through the garbage and make it out to the other side with perhaps a little better understanding of a world that is broader than the one our parents knew or discussed at the dinner table. If they cannot, then perhaps they are weak in spirit and would follow anyone down into the depths.

For everyone enamored of Ayn Rand, there is someone who read Dos Passos. Other than the Speaker of the House, most of us grow up and through that phase of our lives.

It is one thing to be a cynical 40 year old. I hope to God we don't birth a generation of cynical 19 year olds.

Over and out.

 

[BugI02]

I am concerned over what seems like a confluence of weak-willed attendees at higher learning with the coercion of indoctrination/ostracization in many aspects of campus life

I hope kids in engineering/sciences would do what I would have done; learn to sound like a committed whatever-ist until you get that strange, but take none of it to heart

With the coming of the age of social media and a true 'permanent record' it would be a struggle to wear the mask 24/7 for four years, though

 

[Alpo]

Hmmm. I've only got a limited sample with the age I am now. But that sounds mostly like high school stuff and the kids who weren't part of the "in crowd" then are relieved that those years are behind them.

The biggest worry seems to be that being in the top 10% of high school is average in those Calculus 4A classes. The curve has moved.

Ohio State has about 40,000 undergrad students enrolled. The noisy anarchists are a small tribe.

 

[Liberty1916]

I always thought that those "seminars" we had on soft social issues were a waste of time at work...until I recognized that some of the guys really did treat people poorly and we were getting harassment complaints. So, some people obviously never learned at home to treat other humans with respect and dignity in a work environment. Go figure.

You might have a point if the "seminars" were about the golden rule and treating other people with respect. Too bad that isn't what they're about. They're lectures about "white privilege" or "homophobia", or whatever the shaming du jour happens to be. If your message is really about everyone respecting everyone else, it will tend to get lost if you spend all your time blaming one group for all the problems of other groups. You might even call it indoctrination.

 

[Alpo]

Please. You're wasting your time on me. Find someone else who is more pliable.