Surrounded by cops today

[akulahawk]

So this story goes hand and hand with the "pulled over" thread.

Today after lunch I was working at stop 11 and madison at the shopping center on the southeast corner. I was repairing the wall packs (outside lights on the wall), when I was working on this particular light I sat my ladder against the door, after a few minutes of work I climb down as I get down I see the door open and a face kinda pop out, gun pointed, and say
"back up", "back up" so I do he comes out and ask "is anyone else here?" I say "no". He ask do I know what building this is, I say "no". He says it's check into cash, and ask to see my id. As he is looking at my id he ask if I have any weapons. I say yes, and hand him my permit, instantly things change. I go from a citizen to a criminal, by this time the rest of the posse shows up.
He makes me put my hands on my head, while he holds me there, and removes my gun and tells me not to move. Then he begins to search and frisk me. He and company then have me sit on the stoop while they run my drivers license and LTCH and check to see if my gun was stolen.

I tell them that I feel like my rights are being violated since I was disarmed even though I produced my permit. And one cop says " it's for our safety and yours, that way every one goes home".
Twenty minutes more of criminal confinment, and they finally get the ok they take my clips and unload them both, take my license, LTCH, and my gun plus rounds and set them on top of a dumpster next to us and tell me that after they leave I can put everything back.

I was so freaking pissed that I screwed up everything I touched the rest of the day.

Turns out one of the girls in the check into cash heard the drill, which only ran for ten seconds and called the cops saying they were being robbed. So I had a gun pointed at me, because she thought she was getting robbed and first cop on the scene said there where ten squad cars coming for me. This was confimed by the five cops in the back of the store and the five or more my partner saw at the front.

In the end I feel like my rights were violated, since my permit meant nothing to them and I was disarmed and treated just like any other criminal on the street.

So what is the point in being a law abiding citizen if you are going to get treated like a crook. Also like I said what about my safety I dont know those cops and here I am surronding by them and their glocks, with nothing of my own.

Why are they better than us, and why is their lives more important than ours.

I hate to tell you this, but you were going to be detained from the get-go. The PD got a call about a possible robbery attempt in progress and responded accordingly. The Officer (and the rest of them) do NOT know you from Adam and they do NOT know you're not going to try to attempt a robbery. After all, you could have just stolen the truck. You could have been planting a charge or attempting to remove a rear door or skylight. The PD doesn't know that. All they know from the dispatcher is that there's a robbery attempt at the location. Of course they're going to detain you, disarm you, and verify the fact that you're a good guy. So, you have a LTCH. Is it proof that you haven't committed a crime since you got it? Is it a guarantee that you're not ever going to commit a crime such as robbery? NO!!! Does the presence of a LTCH mean you haven't stolen the handgun? NO!

Let me clue you in on something. Had you NOT said you had a weapon on you, you'd have been frisked anyway, the pistol would have been discovered anyway. You would have ended up proned out, firearm taken anyway, and you'd have had to tell them about your LTCH, which they would have verified eventually. Since they were operating under the premise that a crime was occurring or about to, they're going to try to determine that you (and your pistol) are LEGAL.

LOL. Law enforcement receives notice from Dispatch that there may be a robbery in progress at a Check into cash..it's 2010..I'd buy it. Police arrive on the scene, there isn't a soul in the check into cash because most americans cash their checks at their bank and their check loans have interest rates higher than tickets to Disneyland.

The moron lady says "I heard noises, maybe a drill on the side of the building"..Check into cash is not open past like 6PM, so it's obviously broad daylight. Blah Blah Blah..

The point is, if OP had NOT been carrying and NOT had an LTCH, they would have ran his ID for warrants and said "sorry for the confusion". OP was detained for exercising his rights, NOT being at the "wrong place at the wrong time".

I am looking at this from a LEO and civilian perspective..with a history of Military Police in several countries and different establishments receiving 100's of the same calls, PC stopped when I rounded the corner and the gentleman on the ladder didn't light me up. I don't understand the thought process when you handle a polite civilian like a criminal..

I know I would've been kicking and screaming like a 2 yr old, quoting laws..point is there are 2 types of people..complete *******s and nervous/complying citizens..clearly OP extended them everything at his disposal to not only establish his innocence, but also his identity. That wasn't good enough though, because, O-M-G..he paid money for his rights lol.

Had he NOT had a LTCH and the handgun on him, he would still have been treated like he was. He would have been frisked, and ID checked. Only AFTER they were satisfied that the OP wasn't attempting to rob the store would they have given him the "Sorry for the inconvenience" and left.

You should well know that PC to detain for a robbery call doesn't automatically end because you weren't lit up immediately.

IMHO, they probably downloaded his magazines because the OP failed the attitude test. The PD didn't do anything wrong. They didn't have to directly give his weapon, ammo, LTCH, and ID back. They could have.

 

[Cru]

I hate to tell you this, but you were going to be detained from the get-go. The PD got a call about a possible robbery attempt in progress and responded accordingly. The Officer (and the rest of them) do NOT know you from Adam and they do NOT know you're not going to try to attempt a robbery. After all, you could have just stolen the truck. You could have been planting a charge or attempting to remove a rear door or skylight. The PD doesn't know that. All they know from the dispatcher is that there's a robbery attempt at the location. Of course they're going to detain you, disarm you, and verify the fact that you're a good guy. So, you have a LTCH. Is it proof that you haven't committed a crime since you got it? Is it a guarantee that you're not ever going to commit a crime such as robbery? NO!!! Does the presence of a LTCH mean you haven't stolen the handgun? NO!

Let me clue you in on something. Had you NOT said you had a weapon on you, you'd have been frisked anyway, the pistol would have been discovered anyway. You would have ended up proned out, firearm taken anyway, and you'd have had to tell them about your LTCH, which they would have verified eventually. Since they were operating under the premise that a crime was occurring or about to, they're going to try to determine that you (and your pistol) are LEGAL.

Had he NOT had a LTCH and the handgun on him, he would still have been treated like he was. He would have been frisked, and ID checked. Only AFTER they were satisfied that the OP wasn't attempting to rob the store would they have given him the "Sorry for the inconvenience" and left.

You should well know that PC to detain for a robbery call doesn't automatically end because you weren't lit up immediately.

IMHO, they probably downloaded his magazines because the OP failed the attitude test. The PD didn't do anything wrong. They didn't have to directly give his weapon, ammo, LTCH, and ID back. They could have.

welcome to ?

 

[PatriotPride]

I hate to tell you this, but you were going to be detained from the get-go.
IMHO, they probably downloaded his magazines because the OP failed the attitude test. The PD didn't do anything wrong. They didn't have to directly give his weapon, ammo, LTCH, and ID back. They could have.

Stellar first post. What was the legal basis for detainment? It's a simple question.

WTF is "the attitude test"? So you're implying that if a police officer doesn't like the way someone is acting, they have the right to act like a 5 year old? Your post is an eye-opener

 

[PatriotPride]

welcome to ?

My reaction exactly. They're coming out of the woodwork.

 

[ihateiraq]

i think we found the first officer on the scene.

 

[PatriotPride]

i think we found the first officer on the scene.

I'd say so!

 

[Hammerhead]

Let me clue you in on something. Had you NOT said you had a weapon on you, you'd have been frisked anyway, the pistol would have been discovered anyway. You would have ended up proned out, firearm taken anyway, and you'd have had to tell them about your LTCH, which they would have verified eventually. Since they were operating under the premise that a crime was occurring or about to, they're going to try to determine that you (and your pistol) are LEGAL.

Ok, since you've posted that your location is Unincorporated Sacramento County, I'm going to take a guess that you're from Commiefornia? Or at least not from Indiana.

Indiana is not a MUST INFORM state. We don't have to tell any LEO jack squat about what we're carrying. We don't have to give LEOs ID when we're not driving, even when asked. The only time we have to even tell a LEO we have our LTCH is when they ask to see it. Carrying a weapon in Indiana is not grounds for probable cause for any type of search, especially after producing a LTCH.

The OP was nice enough to cooperate with the police on the scene as much as he did. He easily could have told them nothing, or to go pound sand, or that the sky was purple for every question they asked him.

All of that other nonsense you posted that I didn't quote is complete and utter bull .

 

[b0r0b]

I hate to tell you this, but you were going to be detained from the get-go. The PD got a call about a possible robbery attempt in progress and responded accordingly. The Officer (and the rest of them) do NOT know you from Adam and they do NOT know you're not going to try to attempt a robbery. After all, you could have just stolen the truck. You could have been planting a charge or attempting to remove a rear door or skylight. The PD doesn't know that. All they know from the dispatcher is that there's a robbery attempt at the location. Of course they're going to detain you, disarm you, and verify the fact that you're a good guy. So, you have a LTCH. Is it proof that you haven't committed a crime since you got it? Is it a guarantee that you're not ever going to commit a crime such as robbery? NO!!! Does the presence of a LTCH mean you haven't stolen the handgun? NO!

Let me clue you in on something. Had you NOT said you had a weapon on you, you'd have been frisked anyway, the pistol would have been discovered anyway. You would have ended up proned out, firearm taken anyway, and you'd have had to tell them about your LTCH, which they would have verified eventually. Since they were operating under the premise that a crime was occurring or about to, they're going to try to determine that you (and your pistol) are LEGAL.

Had he NOT had a LTCH and the handgun on him, he would still have been treated like he was. He would have been frisked, and ID checked. Only AFTER they were satisfied that the OP wasn't attempting to rob the store would they have given him the "Sorry for the inconvenience" and left.

You should well know that PC to detain for a robbery call doesn't automatically end because you weren't lit up immediately.

IMHO, they probably downloaded his magazines because the OP failed the attitude test. The PD didn't do anything wrong. They didn't have to directly give his weapon, ammo, LTCH, and ID back. They could have.

That's a big negative there Captain Planet. This may be how it works at your PD, but it's not the "industry standard" at all.

What you seem to be oblivious to at the moment is the fact that the call did not constitute anything whatsoever, and it is the fault of dispatch for not relaying information as such. There was not a call for a Robbery in progress at all..do you know what a Robbery is?

There was a call for suspicious noises in BROAD DAYLIGHT. The dispatchers questions revolve around the caller seeing anyone, seeing a weapon ect. As a police officer responding to this dispatch as follows:

(remember, this call DOES NOT allow for dispatch to pass on the fact that there is a burglary in progress, for a burglary to be in progress, there has to be more information then "someones on the side of the building with a god damned Craftsman drill in broad daylight in public")

"Suspicious noises reported from the side of a Check into cash on whatever blvd. Caller has no ID on any possible suspects and no one is currently inside the establishment".

THIS is a 2 unit call with the possibility for backup when arriving on the scene. Dispatch could not have received enough information for more than half of the on-duty force to show up for "noises". Upon arrival, you see a work truck and a man on a ladder working on a light. Pistol NOT DRAWN, you ask the clerk where the noises were coming from, peek the corner with hand on pistol to assess the information provided to you.

In comes common sense. You approach a man on a ladder WORKING for a god damn living..He complies with any demands you may have immediately and without hesitation. He provides his ID and AT BEST an officer should be within distance of the man until name and business check out. There should be no detaining and no frisking. Probable cause ended when the man provided identification that didn't look like it was made in someones basement.

NO ONE hangs around during a burglary, NO ONE drills into the side of a wall in broad daylight to rob anything. When the supposed "suspect" appeared completely normal as you turned the corner, the only thing left is to verify that he's working as intended, be it a work order or a phone call. No hand cuffing, no frisking. There was no probable cause the moment the man responded to "step away" or "put your hands in the air".

The caller made a false report and it's obvious dispatch passed this information onto officers all wrong. That being said, the officers on the scene knew immediately that a man on a ladder with no visual intention of doing a god damned thing instead of working was not a threat.

This man was a victim of shoddy police work at best. Most likely handled by an adrenaline hungry rookie that beat the Vet to the scene because the Vet knew no one is drilling through a wall at 3pm in public view. Show me a 5 lighter at dispatch with multiple people reporting suspicious activity and you have PC. One phone call of noises on the side of a building and a man making a living is not probable cause for anything.

 

[PatriotPride]

All of that other nonsense you posted that I didn't quote is complete and utter bull .

I LOLd. Good stuff!

 

[ihateiraq]

woooosah guys. woooosah.

 

[Hammerhead]

Gooosfraabaa

 

[b0r0b]

I'm as calm as the weather before the storm my brothers. I'm just schooling a rookie on how on the scene procedures work. There is nothing suspicious about a man beside a work truck with no masks or dark clothing and no visible weapons. To each his own.

One thing I can't stand is when a man is working to feed his family gets surrounded by police when 50 people in that county are operating meth labs and devising plans to actually cause a problem.

 

[ihateiraq]

I'm as calm as the weather before the storm my brothers. I'm just schooling a rookie on how on the scene procedures work. There is nothing suspicious about a man beside a work truck with no masks or dark clothing and no visible weapons. To each his own.

could be suspicious. havent you ever seen heat? sometimes even criminals are master craftsmen.

 

[b0r0b]

could be suspicious. havent you ever seen heat? sometimes even criminals are master craftsmen.

Lol, Heat was one of my favorite movies of the 90's, but 4 men with dead presidents masks on and automatic weapons is slightly different than one phone call from a timid minimum wage clerk at an establishment that has less money on hand then the mcdonalds down the street.

 

[PatriotPride]

could be suspicious. havent you ever seen heat? sometimes even criminals are master craftsmen.

He's got a point. Usually real-life events are just like the movies. Everyone's out to get the po-lice.

 

[PatriotPride]

Lol, Heat was one of my favorite movies of the 90's, but 4 men with dead presidents masks on and automatic weapons is slightly different than one phone call from a timid minimum wage clerk at an establishment that has less money on hand then the mcdonalds down the street.

McDonalds clogs my arteries with their dollar menu. It's a devious plan.

 

[Hammerhead]

McDonalds clogs my arteries with their dollar menu. It's a devious plan.

-1 to Burger King

 

[b0r0b]

Oh and I TOTALLY just confused Heat with Point Break rofl! I just saw Point Break the other day for the 900th time and when I said "90's" it clicked. I failed hard.

 

[PatriotPride]

Oh and I TOTALLY just confused Heat with Point Break rofl! I just saw Point Break the other day for the 900th time and when I said "90's" it clicked. I failed hard.

Quick, edit your post! Move along, nothing to see here

 

[Eddie]

I'm as calm as the weather before the storm my brothers. I'm just schooling a rookie on how on the scene procedures work. There is nothing suspicious about a man beside a work truck with no masks or dark clothing and no visible weapons. To each his own.

One thing I can't stand is when a man is working to feed his family gets surrounded by police when 50 people in that county are operating meth labs and devising plans to actually cause a problem.

The one word highlighted in red sums up that guy's post nicely.