Stopped by Terre Haute PD for OC'ing -- On a Date!

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    Unit308

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 4, 2010
    43
    6
    North Central Indiana
    I have a tendency to agree with the THPD on this one and to disagree with Mr. Youngblood.
    I have dealt with very similar situations over the years, so I speak from experience.
    While carrying openly is legal (with a CCW Permit) it is not advisable.
    Since Mr. Youngblood was at a venue where there were crowds all around, and since I doubt that he has been trained in weapons retention, I can see the possibility of someone coming up from behind him and "snatching" his handgun.
    This young man probably has no inkling that there are prisoners in our institutions who compare notes and even rehearse how to snatch a handgun from a police officer's holster. He would be "easy pickings" for some of these types.
    It has also been my experience that it is often the newly licensed who carry openly. Why? In my opinion it is because they like to "show off" and in many cases rather enjoy the attention/intimidation factor that carrying openly results in.
    Mister Youngblood could have saved himself (and his date) a lot of time and embarrassment by simply concealing his handgun, but, judging from his numerous posts, I stand by my statement that he is enjoying the attention. It further sounds as if he was not embarrassed at all.
    Oh, and for the record, officers can check for valid CCW permits. It is not unheard of that a CCW license has been revoked at the State level, so the mere possession of that little piece of pink paper is not indicative of the fact that the carrier of same has a clean and clear record.

    And on a personal level? I wonder why a gal would want to go out on a date/dates with someone who openly carries a handgun and who seems to enjoy and, indeed, invite his confrontations with law officers?
    Had that been myself who responded to this situation, and had I the City Ordinance to issue a citation, and had this young man argued with me at length, I would have.
    The responding officers handled this situation very well and exercised what we refer to as "officer discretion".
    And yes, the officers had every lawful right to ask this young man to unload and temporarily surrender his weapon. They had no idea of whom they were confronting.
    Again, had that been myself, I would have not trusted this young man to even touch his weapon, much less remove the magazine. I would have asked him to raise his arms while I removed it and made it safe. You know...officer safety?
     

    Roadie

    Modus InHiatus
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Feb 20, 2009
    9,775
    63
    Beech Grove
    I have a tendency to agree with the THPD on this one and to disagree with Mr. Youngblood.
    I have dealt with very similar situations over the years, so I speak from experience.
    While carrying openly is legal (with a CCW Permit) it is not advisable.
    Since Mr. Youngblood was at a venue where there were crowds all around, and since I doubt that he has been trained in weapons retention, I can see the possibility of someone coming up from behind him and "snatching" his handgun.
    This young man probably has no inkling that there are prisoners in our institutions who compare notes and even rehearse how to snatch a handgun from a police officer's holster. He would be "easy pickings" for some of these types.
    It has also been my experience that it is often the newly licensed who carry openly. Why? In my opinion it is because they like to "show off" and in many cases rather enjoy the attention/intimidation factor that carrying openly results in.
    Mister Youngblood could have saved himself (and his date) a lot of time and embarrassment by simply concealing his handgun, but, judging from his numerous posts, I stand by my statement that he is enjoying the attention. It further sounds as if he was not embarrassed at all.
    Oh, and for the record, officers can check for valid CCW permits. It is not unheard of that a CCW license has been revoked at the State level, so the mere possession of that little piece of pink paper is not indicative of the fact that the carrier of same has a clean and clear record.

    And on a personal level? I wonder why a gal would want to go out on a date/dates with someone who openly carries a handgun and who seems to enjoy and, indeed, invite his confrontations with law officers?
    Had that been myself who responded to this situation, and had I the City Ordinance to issue a citation, and had this young man argued with me at length, I would have.
    The responding officers handled this situation very well and exercised what we refer to as "officer discretion".
    And yes, the officers had every lawful right to ask this young man to unload and temporarily surrender his weapon. They had no idea of whom they were confronting.
    Again, had that been myself, I would have not trusted this young man to even touch his weapon, much less remove the magazine. I would have asked him to raise his arms while I removed it and made it safe. You know...officer safety?

    Wow, sure can tell you are new here...

    First, Indiana doesn't have a CCW, it has an LTCH.
    2nd, how do you know his OC holster did not have active retention?
    3rd, if it is so "not advisable" why do LEOs OC?
    4th, Why should he be embarrassed for exorcising his RIGHTS? He was unaware it was against code to carry in the Park, and was going to leave.. Heck, for all YOU know, he could have more firearms training that YOU do, as many on this Forum probably do...

    I would go on, but there is SO much wrong with this post, I would be here all nite. There is enough of a problem on this Forum with cop bashing, then YOU come along and make your brothers look bad by coming across as someone who thinks only cops should carry, or if civilians do so, they should do it YOUR way. I wish I could find the recent Indiana high court ruling that states that merely possessing an LTCH is not grounds for further investigation, but I can't, and it sounds like you would ignore it anyway...
     
    Last edited:

    curraheeguns

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    78   0   0
    Nov 8, 2008
    4,571
    113
    NW Hendricks County
    If you werent sure if it was legal to carry there, then thats your second hint to: SHUT YOUR MOUTH AND DONT SAY ANOTHER WORD except ..... am I being detained??

    Yeah right!!! Except that refusing to identify yourself while commiting an infraction of a city ordinance is a C Misdemeanor and an outrightable offense.

    So no ticket but instead.....the pokey.

    IC 34-28-5-3.5
    Refusal to identify self
    Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
    (1) name, address, and date of birth; or
    (2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
    to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.
    As added by P.L.1-1998, SEC.24.
     

    jeremy

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 18, 2008
    16,482
    36
    Fiddler's Green
    First off, let me state I am not bashing on LEOs or LEAs. I am bashing on this individual...

    I have a tendency to agree with the THPD on this one and to disagree with Mr. Youngblood.
    I have dealt with very similar situations over the years, so I speak from experience.
    While carrying openly is legal (with a CCW Permit) it is not advisable.
    Since Mr. Youngblood was at a venue where there were crowds all around, and since I doubt that he has been trained in weapons retention, I can see the possibility of someone coming up from behind him and "snatching" his handgun.
    This young man probably has no inkling that there are prisoners in our institutions who compare notes and even rehearse how to snatch a handgun from a police officer's holster. He would be "easy pickings" for some of these types.
    Actually Indiana does not have a CCW nor do we have any interest in pursuing that silly line of thought... We have a LTCH (License To Carry Handgun).
    Really bringing out the Weapons Retention Myth?!
    Post some facts that back up that train of thought, please...

    It has also been my experience that it is often the newly licensed who carry openly. Why? In my opinion it is because they like to "show off" and in many cases rather enjoy the attention/intimidation factor that carrying openly results in.
    Yeah you are right I am completely cherry at carrying. You are right I like to show off and intimidate everyone I come into contact with...
    Just like you with your Badge huh...

    Mister Youngblood could have saved himself (and his date) a lot of time and embarrassment by simply concealing his handgun, but, judging from his numerous posts, I stand by my statement that he is enjoying the attention. It further sounds as if he was not embarrassed at all.
    WOW...
    Really?! Personally attacking someone and their date you do not even know for doing a completely legal activity...

    Oh, and for the record, officers can check for valid CCW permits. It is not unheard of that a CCW license has been revoked at the State level, so the mere possession of that little piece of pink paper is not indicative of the fact that the carrier of same has a clean and clear record.
    Might what to go back and review your facts again...
    Might what to start with current Indiana Judicial Precedents...

    And on a personal level? I wonder why a gal would want to go out on a date/dates with someone who openly carries a handgun and who seems to enjoy and, indeed, invite his confrontations with law officers?
    Again with the personal attacks...

    Had that been myself who responded to this situation, and had I the City Ordinance to issue a citation, and had this young man argued with me at length, I would have.
    The responding officers handled this situation very well and exercised what we refer to as "officer discretion".
    And yes, the officers had every lawful right to ask this young man to unload and temporarily surrender his weapon. They had no idea of whom they were confronting.
    Again, had that been myself, I would have not trusted this young man to even touch his weapon, much less remove the magazine. I would have asked him to raise his arms while I removed it and made it safe. You know...officer safety?
    Well, I guess I may have to come to your AO...
    I wonder how many Laws you would be willing to break to make me comply with your misunderstanding... :dunno:
     

    ATM

    will argue for sammiches.
    Site Supporter
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    30   0   0
    Jul 29, 2008
    21,019
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    Eddie

    Master
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    1   0   0
    Nov 28, 2009
    3,730
    38
    North of Terre Haute
    I have a tendency to agree with the THPD on this one and to disagree with Mr. Youngblood.
    I have dealt with very similar situations over the years, so I speak from experience.
    While carrying openly is legal (with a CCW Permit) it is not advisable.
    Since Mr. Youngblood was at a venue where there were crowds all around, and since I doubt that he has been trained in weapons retention, I can see the possibility of someone coming up from behind him and "snatching" his handgun.
    This young man probably has no inkling that there are prisoners in our institutions who compare notes and even rehearse how to snatch a handgun from a police officer's holster. He would be "easy pickings" for some of these types.
    It has also been my experience that it is often the newly licensed who carry openly. Why? In my opinion it is because they like to "show off" and in many cases rather enjoy the attention/intimidation factor that carrying openly results in.
    Mister Youngblood could have saved himself (and his date) a lot of time and embarrassment by simply concealing his handgun, but, judging from his numerous posts, I stand by my statement that he is enjoying the attention. It further sounds as if he was not embarrassed at all.
    Oh, and for the record, officers can check for valid CCW permits. It is not unheard of that a CCW license has been revoked at the State level, so the mere possession of that little piece of pink paper is not indicative of the fact that the carrier of same has a clean and clear record.

    And on a personal level? I wonder why a gal would want to go out on a date/dates with someone who openly carries a handgun and who seems to enjoy and, indeed, invite his confrontations with law officers?
    Had that been myself who responded to this situation, and had I the City Ordinance to issue a citation, and had this young man argued with me at length, I would have.
    The responding officers handled this situation very well and exercised what we refer to as "officer discretion".
    And yes, the officers had every lawful right to ask this young man to unload and temporarily surrender his weapon. They had no idea of whom they were confronting.
    Again, had that been myself, I would have not trusted this young man to even touch his weapon, much less remove the magazine. I would have asked him to raise his arms while I removed it and made it safe. You know...officer safety?

    After reading this post I paced around the kitchen for several minutes thinking of going through and debunking it sentence by sentence but on further reflection I decline to waste that much of my time on you.

    You claim to be an officer of the law yet you misstate the law in referring to a CCW. You go on to insult someone that you don't know by referring to him repeatedly as "Mr. Youngblood". Why is that Barney? Do you feel threatened by Americans exercising their rights? Do you hate minorities and secretely desire to torture criminals? Are you against free speech? It doesn't feel good to have somebody make a bunch of unfair assumptions about you does it Barney?
     

    Unit308

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 4, 2010
    43
    6
    North Central Indiana
    "Do you feel threatened by Americans exercising their rights? Do you hate minorities and secretely desire to torture criminals?"

    Garsh...you obviously did not pace around your kitchen floor long before deciding to jump to your daft conclusions.
    Try cutting back on the caffeine..get some rest.
    Take two aspirin and call it a night.
     

    Hotdoger

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 9, 2008
    4,903
    48
    Boone County, In.
    I have a tendency to agree with the THPD on this one and to disagree with Mr. Youngblood.
    I have dealt with very similar situations over the years, so I speak from experience.
    While carrying openly is legal (with a CCW Permit) it is not advisable.
    Since Mr. Youngblood was at a venue where there were crowds all around, and since I doubt that he has been trained in weapons retention, I can see the possibility of someone coming up from behind him and "snatching" his handgun.
    This young man probably has no inkling that there are prisoners in our institutions who compare notes and even rehearse how to snatch a handgun from a police officer's holster. He would be "easy pickings" for some of these types.
    It has also been my experience that it is often the newly licensed who carry openly. Why? In my opinion it is because they like to "show off" and in many cases rather enjoy the attention/intimidation factor that carrying openly results in.
    Mister Youngblood could have saved himself (and his date) a lot of time and embarrassment by simply concealing his handgun, but, judging from his numerous posts, I stand by my statement that he is enjoying the attention. It further sounds as if he was not embarrassed at all.
    Oh, and for the record, officers can check for valid CCW permits. It is not unheard of that a CCW license has been revoked at the State level, so the mere possession of that little piece of pink paper is not indicative of the fact that the carrier of same has a clean and clear record.

    And on a personal level? I wonder why a gal would want to go out on a date/dates with someone who openly carries a handgun and who seems to enjoy and, indeed, invite his confrontations with law officers?
    Had that been myself who responded to this situation, and had I the City Ordinance to issue a citation, and had this young man argued with me at length, I would have.
    The responding officers handled this situation very well and exercised what we refer to as "officer discretion".
    And yes, the officers had every lawful right to ask this young man to unload and temporarily surrender his weapon. They had no idea of whom they were confronting.
    Again, had that been myself, I would have not trusted this young man to even touch his weapon, much less remove the magazine. I would have asked him to raise his arms while I removed it and made it safe. You know...officer safety?

    Another Officer.com poster?
     

    Unit308

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 4, 2010
    43
    6
    North Central Indiana
    Yawn. As is all to frequent these days, there are those who will construe personal observations as being "attacks" when the comments fail to suit their fancy or line of thought.
    I was merely looking at this much ballyhooed incident from the standpoint of a police officer who has been trained to hope for the best, while at the same time being prepared for the unexpected.
    I stand by my observation that this young man was purposely calling attention to himself by openly carrying his weapon.
    How many of you posters go to your local 7-Eleven with an openly carried handgun?
    How many of you go to music fests with same?

    My bottom line was, and IS, about officer safety. And the safety of the populace we are sworn to protect.
     

    Expat

    Pdub
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    23   0   0
    Feb 27, 2010
    113,944
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    Michiana
    Unit308, been reading that book "How to win Friends and Influence People" again haven't you. :D

    Actually I think it is good for you post here what you did. We tend to talk amongst ourselves and start thinking everyone is on the same page as we are. Then we are surprised when the local PoPo puts their shiny jack boots on our throats. Although maybe we are making progress. You know we have to right to carry openly, you just don't like it and will abuse your authority to let someone know it. It wasn't too long ago when the LEO was arguing we carried concealed permits and had no right to open carry. So I think that is a good sign. TImes they are a changing and I think you will be seeing more and more open carry in the future.
     

    IndyMonkey

    Shooter
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    0   0   0
    Jan 15, 2010
    6,835
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    Yawn. As is all to frequent these days, there are those who will construe personal observations as being "attacks" when the comments fail to suit their fancy or line of thought.
    I was merely looking at this much ballyhooed incident from the standpoint of a police officer who has been trained to hope for the best, while at the same time being prepared for the unexpected.
    I stand by my observation that this young man was purposely calling attention to himself by openly carrying his weapon.
    How many of you posters go to your local 7-Eleven with an openly carried handgun?
    How many of you go to music fests with same?

    My bottom line was, and IS, about officer safety. And the safety of the populace we are sworn to protect.



    Really the bottom line should be our constitutional right, if you want officer safety stay in your car where there's airbags.
     

    Deet

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    15   0   0
    Aug 21, 2009
    558
    18
    NWI
    If you tap my handgun with a flashlight, you are very likely to get double-tapped right back. I have been OCing for many years and have never had anyone touch my firearm. My friends and family members (some who have known me for 40 years) would never even joking touch my sidearm. My five yr old neighbor who sees me carrying everyday and is interested in the shiney gun would never ever think of touching my gun. Some people understand to keep their hands off of other peoples stuff. If you believe the right way to start a pleasant conversation with someone is to touch their firearm, then we really are on different sides of this issue.
     

    Unit308

    Plinker
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    0   0   0
    Aug 4, 2010
    43
    6
    North Central Indiana
    "First, Indiana doesn't have a CCW, it has an LTCH. "

    I have already addressed this, It is a matter of semantics. Most of the folks who come to our Dept to apply for a permit refer to this as wanting a CCW Permit.
    We don't nitpick.


    "2nd, how do you know his OC holster did not have active retention? "

    How do you know that he did?


    "3rd, if it is so "not advisable" why do LEOs OC?"
    Oh, my. You aren't serious, are you?
     

    Eddie

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Nov 28, 2009
    3,730
    38
    North of Terre Haute
    "First, Indiana doesn't have a CCW, it has an LTCH. "

    I have already addressed this, It is a matter of semantics. Most of the folks who come to our Dept to apply for a permit refer to this as wanting a CCW Permit.
    We don't nitpick.


    "2nd, how do you know his OC holster did not have active retention? "

    How do you know that he did?


    "3rd, if it is so "not advisable" why do LEOs OC?"
    Oh, my. You aren't serious, are you?

    Let's hear your answer. If OCing is so bad, why do LEO's OC?
     

    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
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    25   0   1
    Mar 20, 2008
    12,885
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    Franklin Township
    It is absolutely NOT a matter of semantics. One (the CCW permit) only allows concealed carry. The other (LTCH) allows either form of carry because it does not specify one over the other. It is a matter of legal definition, not semantics. It must be very hard for you to page through the code book when you are issuing a citation if that's how you see every definition.
     

    Joe Williams

    Shooter
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    Jun 26, 2008
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    snip

    My bottom line was, and IS, about officer safety. And the safety of the populace we are sworn to protect.

    No sir. The bottom line isn't about officer safety. If that is what you truly believe, you aren't fit to exercise authority on behalf of the state.
     
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