Soldier refuses to deploy/follow Obama due to the POTUS is not US Citizen

[dburkhead]

Simply to force his hand. And in a nonchalant way, he did. The military agreed with the soldier, obamatard has a shroud of reasonable doubt around his eligibility.

Just because he was sworn in doesn't mean it was legal. Just because everyone on earth but me says the sky is hot pink doesn't mean it is...

Sorry SE, but having his orders canceled does not mean that the military agreed. He volunteered to go. Then, before going, he withdrew the volunteering. Since he was not active duty and since his unit wasn't deploying (but he had volunteered as an individual), he could do that right up until the time he actually embarked.

Per regs, once he withdrew his volunteering, his orders were cancelled. Since no reason is necessary for any such withdrawing of volunteering, the reasons he stated for such withdrawal don't enter into it.

 

[SavageEagle]

But that's not what happened if I read the articles correctly. There was no withdraw of his volunteering. He declined to follow orders, right? Then the military revoked those orders, right? If so, there was no mention of HIM withdrawing his OWN service. I think it was just someone stating that he COULD have done this... I guess I could be wrong...

 

[Boilers]

I think their reasoning is in their eyes (in THIS case) his refusal = UNvolunteering.

 

[SavageEagle]

Then I wonder who gave the order initially... Also, it was a good way of weasling out of a sticky situation on their part. Gotta give them credit for that.

 

[dburkhead]

But that's not what happened if I read the articles correctly. There was no withdraw of his volunteering. He declined to follow orders, right? Then the military revoked those orders, right? If so, there was no mention of HIM withdrawing his OWN service. I think it was just someone stating that he COULD have done this... I guess I could be wrong...

No withdraw of his volunteering? What do you call it when he says "I'm not going"?

Or are you confused by the fact that he had orders? I can understand that if you are not experienced with the way the military works. In the military, nothing is done without orders. You don't just "volunteer" to do something and just go. If you volunteer for something, that volunteering is passed on to the appropriate people in the chain of command who then decide to approve or disapprove (either directly or via delegation) the volunteering (catchphrase one gets very familiar with in the military "needs of the military come first"). If approved, orders are then cut for the volunteer. One has volunteered. One now has orders to do what one has volunteered to do. Now, in this case, we have the additional steps of person stating that they were not doing what they had volunteered to do, and that they now had orders to do. Since, if what was reported to me is accurate (I'm still waiting for the legal heavy hitter on that forum to weigh in, but so far it looks correct), this is something that is permitted in this type of case, the orders have to be rescinded.

When I was in the military I volunteered for a number of things over the years. In each case, I received orders. Orders aren't just "orders" in the sense of "you, go take that hill," but are also "authorizations." When you report to a new posting, they will want to see your orders since, among other things, they say that you are actually supposed to be there.

Sequence of events.

He volunteered.
The military cut orders based on that volunteering.
He says he's not going. (Which pretty much means that he's not volunteering any more.)
Military recinds the orders--as they are required to do by regulation since he is allowed to withdraw from volunteering.

 

[SavageEagle]

Look, I know how this military works, but He refused to obey orders. He didn't unVolunteer. I understand that reasons really don't matter here when it comes to the court martial (If I read it right) but he never said anything about not wanting to volunteer. He said no I'm not following that order. I thought there was a difference.

 

[dburkhead]

Look, I know how this military works, but He refused to obey orders. He didn't unVolunteer. I understand that reasons really don't matter here when it comes to the court martial (If I read it right) but he never said anything about not wanting to volunteer. He said no I'm not following that order. I thought there was a difference.

No, it doesn't. "Orders" have a number of different meanings in the military. When Captain Bohica says "charge that bunker" that's one thing. When you volunteer to do something and a set of orders are cut for you to do what you volunteered to do, that's another.

The "orders" were to do what he had volunteered to do. When he said, "no, I'm not going," that pretty much puts an end to volunteering to go. Whether he might be willing to go if someone else were sitting in the White House (it would be Biden, by the way, if Obama were actually removed, and if somehow one also eliminated Biden from consideration, why then it would be Pelosi, and Reid after her) but that has nothing to do with now. He is not willing to go now. That is incompatible with volunteering to go. Thus, by default, the volunteering is withdrawn.

He's volunteering to go or he's not. Binary solution set. There is no "he's volunteering, not with Obama acting as President." Since Obama is acting as President, then he's not volunteering.

There is no form DD-QTR-1 "Declaration of withdrawal from volunteering" that has to be filled out in triplicate to withdraw from volunteering. "I'm not going" when one had volunteered to go pretty much covers it.

 

[El Cazador]

I feel sorry for the guy down the line after the Major decided not to volunteer for the post. The Major pulled his request very late in the process, after command could repost the call for volunteers. So, now they have to pick someone to fill the post, meaning somebody got a call to "pack a bag, you're leaving" with very short notice.

If he was trying to prove a point by this "volunteer, then question the order's legitimacy, then un-volunteer", all he did was put some other guy in a bind, and really put his personal rep with his contemporaries in a hole. Most of the Milblogs are REALLY unhappy with this guy pulling this.

 

[dburkhead]

I feel sorry for the guy down the line after the Major decided not to volunteer for the post. The Major pulled his request very late in the process, after command could repost the call for volunteers. So, now they have to pick someone to fill the post, meaning somebody got a call to "pack a bag, you're leaving" with very short notice.

If he was trying to prove a point by this "volunteer, then question the order's legitimacy, then un-volunteer", all he did was put some other guy in a bind, and really put his personal rep with his contemporaries in a hole. Most of the Milblogs are REALLY unhappy with this guy pulling this.

Oh, his military career is over. His next OER is likely to say something like "sometimes inattentive to the best needs of the military" or the real kiss of death "performed his duties in a satisfactory manner."

If he's lucky, he may retire as a Major, but there will never be silver leaves or eagles, let alone stars, on his collar.

 

[SavageEagle]

Alright David. I was mistaken then. I guess that's the downfall in an all-volunteer military...

 

[hornadylnl]

Any chance for a source and an author?

I believe that was none other than Sen. Tedward Kennedy 45 minutes after Bork was nominated. I heard it on one of the radio talk shows just the other day.

 

[Indybeer]

He volunteered to go. All he had to do right up to the point he actually deployed was to say I don't want to go and follow set procedures and rescind his request.

But he didn't do that... he hired a lawyer to go through this media circus. It makes the whole military organization look bad for an officer to behave like this.

Well he got his 15 minutes!

 

[SavageEagle]

He volunteered to go. All he had to do right up to the point he actually deployed was to say I don't want to go and follow set procedures and rescind his request.

But he didn't do that... he hired a lawyer to go through this media circus. It makes the whole military organization look bad for an officer to behave like this.

Well he got his 15 minutes!

You know, I think you're right. Now that I got the whole picture I agree. Now had this had any standing it could have produced some fruit.

Damn. I Was REALLY hopeful this could have worked. I now wonder what it will take to get to the truth...

 

[El Cazador]

I now wonder what it will take to get to the truth...

History, more than likely.

Right now, this issue while interesting, is a distraction from issues we really need to be focusing on.

 

[dburkhead]

Alright David. I was mistaken then. I guess that's the downfall in an all-volunteer military...

No, it's not "the downfall in an all-volunteer military." It's a specific situation, covered by regs: Guard or reserve volunteering as an individual to deploy to Iraq or Afghanistan (those were the places named--don't know if the reg is specific to those two places or if it's a general "overseas deployment" type thing) and not as a general mobilization of their unit. The reg permits them to "unvolunteer" any time before actual embarkation and, at some point, the person will have "orders" cut while still being in the period in which they can "unvolunteer."

It's a sucky thing to do because now what happens is that someone who didn't volunteer will get a call saying "pack your bags; you're going" and he won't be able to "unvolunteer" because he didn't volunteer in the first place.

And it has nothing to do with if the unit were being sent there as a unit. In that case, it would be go or be prosecuted. There is no "I don't volunteer any more" in that case (except, perhaps, in resigning his commission--I'm not quite sure how that works for officers since my parents were married).

And we may see this reg go away or the military not bothering to accept volunteers, just order folk to go so that they can't back out. And so the next time a reservist, is willing to go and, say, his wife is hurt badly in an auto accident shortly before he ships out, well, SOL.

The current reg looks to me like an attempt at compromise between folk in the guard and reserve having lives outside the military and the ability of the guard and reserve to actually fill its roll. If you make some allowance for crises that arise in the guard or reservists life at the last minute, you get more volunteers. And if you have more volunteers, you'll have to send fewer people overseas who aren't volunteers. And if you have to send fewer people overseas who aren't volunteers you'll have more people willing to stay in the guard or reserve.

"Unintended consequenses" works in all sorts of directions.

 

[SavageEagle]

No, it's not "the downfall in an all-volunteer military." .

"Unintended consequenses" works in all sorts of directions.

I didn't mean it like that. I should have been more specific. I should have said, "...in this situation.", but I didn't. At least I had it right in my own head....

I agree, they are very good regs to have in place. Even during wartime. It weeds out the ones who were only there for a paycheck when push comes to shove.

 

[gglass]

Update

Army warrior terminated from job after questioning Obama eligibility.

Unless the soldier challenges the firing, the administration will have the last laugh.

Pentagon orders soldier fired for challenging prez

 

[Prometheus]

Will we ever know? This guy is a total scam artist. Why would they ever give us that information? Why didnt this get checked more in the race to pick the democrat running? Why, why, why do we have a president now that this question arises? Sorry for the rant.

Why? because mcAmnesty wasn't born in the US either. Juan 'the traitor' mcAmnesty didn't want to open the legal can of worms of being born outside of the CONUS. He was out of money and thought the risk outweighed the benefits.

Now we have obama thanks to the idiots in the GOP. It's also why obama stands a good chance of winning in 2012.

 

[Indybeer]

You have to remember one thing...as an employee of a company that does business with the DOD everyone that works there has a security clearance. If for any reason you lose your security clearance, you can no longer perform your job...which means you are out.

As soon as he refused to deploy...regardless of his reasoning...he lost his clearance.

 

[Sinner Man]

Has anyone mentioned yet that there is no definite definition of "natural born" that states both of your parents had to be born here?

This soldier is trying to fight a good fight, just not a smart one.