Soldier refuses to deploy/follow Obama due to the POTUS is not US Citizen

[Joe Williams]

Why? because mcAmnesty wasn't born in the US either. Juan 'the traitor' mcAmnesty didn't want to open the legal can of worms of being born outside of the CONUS. He was out of money and thought the risk outweighed the benefits.

Now we have obama thanks to the idiots in the GOP. It's also why obama stands a good chance of winning in 2012.

It is not required that one be physically born in the United States to be a natural born citizen.

 

[SavageEagle]

Has anyone mentioned yet that there is no definite definition of "natural born" that states both of your parents had to be born here?

This soldier is trying to fight a good fight, just not a smart one.

Natural Born means that YOU were born here. Regardless of your parents...

 

[Joe Williams]

Natural Born means that YOU were born here. Regardless of your parents...

Actually, that is not what natural born means. Or at least, not the only meaning.

 

[Sinner Man]

Joe, there is only going to be one real definition in the legal sense- or at least one you can take and use up at the level of the US SC. That particular definition does not state that they have to be born in the United States.

Some info on wiki:

The term "natural born Citizen" has never been defined by the Courts in the course of a Presidential qualification challenge. It is believed by some people, including some of the so-called "birthers," that this provision means that only persons born on U.S. soil to two U.S. citizens are “natural born Citizens” of the nation and eligible to become President. There are others who believe that anyone who acquires citizenship by any means other than naturalization is a "natural born Citizen" and eligible for the Presidency. In between these extremes lie gray areas, some controversy,[2] and various obiter dicta from the courts.[3][4][5] A majority of commentators today argue that the Presidential Eligibility clause incorporates both common-law (jus soli) and English statutory (jus sanguinis) principles.[6]

1. <LI id=cite_note-0>^ Heard, Alexander and Nelson, Michael. Presidential Selection, page 123 (Duke University Press 1987) via Google Books. <LI id=cite_note-fringe-1>^ How can Panamanian-born McCain be elected president? FactCheck.org, 2008-02-25, retrieved 2008-12-05. <LI id=cite_note-minor-2>^ Minor v Happersett (1874) case law at FindLaw.com <LI id=cite_note-Wong-3>^ a b c U.S. v Wong Kim Ark (1898) case law at Justia.com <LI id=cite_note-Elg-4>^ Perkins v Elg (1939) case law at Justia.com
2. ^ Meese, Edwin; Edwin Meese, III, David F. Forte, Matthew Spalding, (2008). The Heritage Guide to the Constitution. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing. p. 190. ISBN 159698001X. Solum, Lawrence B. (2008-09-05). "Originalism and the Natural Born Citizen Clause". Michigan Law Review (Michigan: University of Illinois) 107: 22. ISBN 159698001X. http://www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/solum.htm.

 

[Sinner Man]

Joe, there is only going to be one real definition in the legal sense- or at least one you can take and use up at the level of the US SC. That particular definition does not state that they have to be born in the United States.

Some info on wiki:

The term "natural born Citizen" has never been defined by the Courts in the course of a Presidential qualification challenge. It is believed by some people, including some of the so-called "birthers," that this provision means that only persons born on U.S. soil to two U.S. citizens are “natural born Citizens” of the nation and eligible to become President. There are others who believe that anyone who acquires citizenship by any means other than naturalization is a "natural born Citizen" and eligible for the Presidency. In between these extremes lie gray areas, some controversy,[2] and various obiter dicta from the courts.[3][4][5] A majority of commentators today argue that the Presidential Eligibility clause incorporates both common-law (jus soli) and English statutory (jus sanguinis) principles.[6]

1. <LI id=cite_note-0>^ Heard, Alexander and Nelson, Michael. Presidential Selection, page 123 (Duke University Press 1987) via Google Books. <LI id=cite_note-fringe-1>^ How can Panamanian-born McCain be elected president? FactCheck.org, 2008-02-25, retrieved 2008-12-05. <LI id=cite_note-minor-2>^ Minor v Happersett (1874) case law at FindLaw.com <LI id=cite_note-Wong-3>^ a b c U.S. v Wong Kim Ark (1898) case law at Justia.com <LI id=cite_note-Elg-4>^ Perkins v Elg (1939) case law at Justia.com
2. ^ Meese, Edwin; Edwin Meese, III, David F. Forte, Matthew Spalding, (2008). The Heritage Guide to the Constitution. Washington, D.C.: Regnery Publishing. p. 190. ISBN 159698001X. Solum, Lawrence B. (2008-09-05). "Originalism and the Natural Born Citizen Clause". Michigan Law Review (Michigan: University of Illinois) 107: 22. ISBN 159698001X. http://www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/solum.htm.

 

[Prometheus]

It is not required that one be physically born in the United States to be a natural born citizen.

USSC has never ruled on that. Much ballyhoo was given about how the court would have ruled and the costs of seeing such a fight to the end.

Obama had unlimited pockets. mcAmnesty was broke for all intents and purposes.

Had it have been any other republican candidate running, they would challenged obamas Citizenship.

 

[dburkhead]

I didn't mean it like that. I should have been more specific. I should have said, "...in this situation.", but I didn't. At least I had it right in my own head....

I agree, they are very good regs to have in place. Even during wartime. It weeds out the ones who were only there for a paycheck when push comes to shove.

Okay, fair enough.

 

[BloodEclipse]

USSC has never ruled on that. Much ballyhoo was given about how the court would have ruled and the costs of seeing such a fight to the end.

Obama had unlimited pockets. mcAmnesty was broke for all intents and purposes.

Had it have been any other republican candidate running, they would challenged obamas Citizenship.

McCain put forth the documents, Obama is hiding the documents.

In John McCain's case, it doesn't really appear to be a question over whether he is or is not a U.S. citizen that is of concern. Instead it is a question of interpretation of the basic qualification layed out in the U.S. Constitution that a president must be a "natural-born citizen." In the case of John McCain, who was born in 1936, it was a retroactive 1937 law that conferred citizenship on children born in the Canal Zone after 1904 to American parents.

"...Any person born in the Republic of Panama on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this Act, whose father or mother or both at the time of birth of such person was or is a citizen ofthe Unied States employed by the Government of the United States or by the Panama Railroad Company, or its successor in title, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."
​

Because this law was not in effect at the time of McCain's birth, experts such as University of Arizona law professor Prof. Gabriel J. Chin say that it came too late to make John McCain a natural-born citizen. At the time of McCain's birth, the relevant statute did grant citizenship to any child of an American parent "out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States." Professor Chin said the precise wording is important here, and that "out of the...jurisdiction" doesn't apply to the Panama Canal Zone which was under the jurisdiction of the United States at the time. Others argue that recognition of the "unintentional gap" is the reason that Congress passed the 1937 Canal Zone citizenship law.

John McCain's Citizenship Status

Oh and from ron's favorite site: FactCheck.org: How can Panamanian-born McCain be elected president?

But McCain is a natural-born citizen, even though he was not born within this country's borders, since his parents were citizens at the time of his birth. As a congressional act stated in 1790:

Congress: "And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."​

 

[ron]

McCain put forth the documents, Obama is hiding the documents.


John McCain's Citizenship Status

Oh and from ron's favorite site: FactCheck.org: How can Panamanian-born McCain be elected president?

My favorite site? Bollocks!

My favorite site is INGunOwners - Indiana Gun Owners Community

 

[BloodEclipse]

My favorite site? Bollocks!

My favorite site is INGunOwners - Indiana Gun Owners Community

Suck-up

 

[SavageEagle]

Personally, If he wasn't born on United States territory, land, or in a state, he's not a Natural Born Citizen. If he was born in Kenya as they claim, that's not natural born even if his parents were both American. That's how I see it. If he was born in the Embassy in Kenya, that's different. But in a Kenyan hospital.....

 

[Sinner Man]

McCain put forth the documents, Obama is hiding the documents.


John McCain's Citizenship Status

Oh and from ron's favorite site: FactCheck.org: How can Panamanian-born McCain be elected president?

That's fine and dandy but it only helps you become naturally born if you are born outside and NOT a requirement if you are (supposedly) born in the US. As long as you fall out of your mother on US soil, you are naturally born. Does cesarian count? That's not really natural. I think we should check and see if his momma has a scar

 

[BloodEclipse]

That's fine and dandy but it only helps you become naturally born if you are born outside and NOT a requirement if you are (supposedly) born in the US. As long as you fall out of your mother on US soil, you are naturally born. Does cesarian count? That's not really natural. I think we should check and see if his momma has a scar

Congress: "And the children of citizens of the United States, that may be born beyond sea, or out of the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens."
​

Notice it says Citizens. (Plural) Not children of a Citizen. (Singular)
So by Obama's dad being a Kenyan.....
​

 

[dburkhead]

Notice it says Citizens. (Plural) Not children of a Citizen. (Singular)
So by Obama's dad being a Kenyan.....
​

The law has changed several times over the course of history and at least once since Obama was born. At the time of his birth a US Citizen mother could confer that "natural born" citizenship on her child when born overseas to a non US Citizen father if said mother was not only a US Citizen but had resided in the US no less than 5 years after the age of 14.

Obama's mother was 18 at the time of Obama's birth. If anybody has difficulty figuring out that that means wrt Obama's Citizenship (if he were actually born in Kenya, which I do not believe), I refer you to the Math Education thread elsewhere in Politics.

 

[dburkhead]

Personally, If he wasn't born on United States territory, land, or in a state, he's not a Natural Born Citizen. If he was born in Kenya as they claim, that's not natural born even if his parents were both American. That's how I see it. If he was born in the Embassy in Kenya, that's different. But in a Kenyan hospital.....

That may be what you like personally, but that's not what the law says.

Also, you may want to think it through a little bit more. Consider, for example the daughter of a buddy of mine back when I was in the AF. We were stationed in England (RAF Chicksands in Bedfordshire to be exact). His wife was not military herself, but it was an "accompanied tour" so we was able to bring the family along. During the course of their stay there, she became pregnant and had her baby in a British hospital (Chicksands was a small base and did not have its own base hospital. Nearest military hospital was, um, Lakenheath, I think. It's been a long time).

Oh, and the mother suffered complications and died shortly after giving birth--with the specific complications being something completely preventable in a US Hospital. (Somebody tell me again how great the "National Health Care" in GB is. )

Now, I have no idea if the young lady born in that hospital would make a good president or not, but I, for one, would not want to deny her the chance solely because her father, in service to the US, was assigned to England and her mother was willing to support her husband to the extent of pulling up stakes and following him to England.

This particular individual will probably never run for President and even if she does, will probably never get to the point where "natural born citizen" would be an issue, but there are plenty of other folk, children of American who followed the call to serve their Country, who would be denied by a "only born in the US" (even if you extended "US" to include embassies* and military bases).

I would not deny those folk that opportunity if they choose to take that path.

*BTW, last time I checked, Embassies don't generally come equipped with obstetricians, let alone hospitals with delivery rooms and neo-natal care units. So being born in an embassy would be an exceptional case in the first place. Being born to military parents overseas is a much more likely event.

 

[CarmelHP]

dburkhead, there you go again with logic, history and reasoned nuance. Shame on you.

 

[dburkhead]

dburkhead, there you go again with logic, history and reasoned nuance. Shame on you.

<Hangs head in shame>

 

[Sinner Man]

Notice it says Citizens. (Plural) Not children of a Citizen. (Singular)
So by Obama's dad being a Kenyan.....
​

Yes you have a point if he was born in Kenya.

What we are discussing is the soldier's idea that since his parents weren't citizens and he has not furnished a BC, then he is not naturally born.

It seemed to be suggested that if his parents were not citizens he could not be a naturally born citizen.

You can be a naturally born citizen even if your parents are not.

 

[SavageEagle]

You can be a naturally born citizen even if your parents are not.

Yep, why do you think Mexican mothers come here to have their babies... Just food for thought.

 

[Rob377]

This thread is still going on?




Wow.