Secession.

[88GT]

Who ever said anything about using force to leave?

You did. You said yourself the feds would never allow a state to leave. That leaves force.

All of the petitions say they are requesting to peacefully leave the union.

And the chances of that happening are?????? See above.

If you are happy with the way things are going right now then that is fine. I am not.

Straw man. Not jumping on the secession band wagon is not the equivalent to not being dissatisfied with the status quo.

If you feel it would be a waste of your time **snip**

I do. In no small part because (a) it'll never happen, (b) very few states--and definitely not Indiana--would have a very successful run as a sovereign nation (see my first post) the result being what? second class state? No thanks. and (c) it'll never happen.

I do not feel that it is waste of my time.

Serious question: what will you get from it except a temporary sense of satisfaction at having flipped the feds the bird?

Whatever it is you seem to think you are spelling out you are still missing the point.

I got your point. Highlighting the stupidity of secession doesn't mean I don't understand that some are making a statement with the petition even if they don't really support secession.

 

[Solitaire]

If you actually think that you are a native American in the 1800's, I might make the suggestion for a mental health checkup.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

The United States wouldn't be the United States as we know it if it did not have all of its members. It'd be like Europe. What have they accomplished in the last few centuries, compared to the US? I'm not trying to be elitist, but what have they made? What lasting impacts have they had? I can't think of many, not compared to the US.

For better or worse, we are stuck with each other. We have to work it out. No easy outs like divorce. That's not to say it won't hurt. A lot.

I think that is the point. The USA as we know it is NOT the USA.

 

[Solitaire]

Lost too many friends for my country to even think of secession. The only way to change the country is from within.

This is what an American sounds like.

Take note, runaway boys and girls.

 

[Bunnykid68]

The United States wouldn't be the United States as we know it if it did not have all of its members. It'd be like Europe. What have they accomplished in the last few centuries, compared to the US? I'm not trying to be elitist, but what have they made? What lasting impacts have they had? I can't think of many, not compared to the US.

For better or worse, we are stuck with each other. We have to work it out. No easy outs like divorce. That's not to say it won't hurt. A lot.

You are right, no easy outs. The out we will get will be like that nasty divorce where each divorcee is trying to kill the other one.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

If you actually think that you are a native American in the 1800's, I might make the suggestion for a mental health checkup.

Public school, I get it. Context is your friend. The Native in the image serves as an example of what our government is capable of then and now. It does not infer that those with the fear of being put in "camps" think they are Natives nor does it imply that we think we are living in the 1800s......... History is a ***** too, especially when it doesn't serve the present desires for people to know it...

 

[Darral27]

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I think 1A involves petitioning for redress of our grievances?

 

[Matthew_DM]

You are right, no easy outs. The out we will get will be like that nasty divorce where each divorcee is trying to kill the other one.

No one knows how to kill Americans like Americans. My grandfather has told me stories he heard from his grandfather who was a sergeant in an Indiana regiment during the War Between the States. He says he remembers the look on his grandfather's face when he talked about the horror of fighting against countrymen and how he hoped nothing like it would ever happen again.

It makes me physically ill to think about raising a hand against a fellow American. I've been deployed overseas. I've seen combat. I just can't imagine doing it against a neighbor. I pray that I'm not in this world for that.

 

[Darral27]

You did. You said yourself the feds would never allow a state to leave. That leaves force.


And the chances of that happening are?????? See above.


Straw man. Not jumping on the secession band wagon is not the equivalent to not being dissatisfied with the status quo.


I do. In no small part because (a) it'll never happen, (b) very few states--and definitely not Indiana--would have a very successful run as a sovereign nation (see my first post) the result being what? second class state? No thanks. and (c) it'll never happen.


Serious question: what will you get from it except a temporary sense of satisfaction at having flipped the feds the bird?


I got your point. Highlighting out the stupidity of secession doesn't mean I don't understand that some are making a statement with the petition even if they don't really support secession.

You apparently think you are intelligent. What is your suggestion? As you quoted in my post I said it would not happen. That does not leave force, that leaves it would never happen.
What will I get from it? You answered your own question. That is good enough for me. It did not hurt you for me to sign this petition. So besides just trying to be a dick I have to wonder what your point is. You have offered no suggestions, don't really see the point in "highlighting the stupidity of secession", if you don't agree with it don't sign it. It is still a free country.

 

[Solitaire]

Public school, I get it. Context is your friend. The Native in the image serves as an example of what our government is capable of then and now. It does not infer that those with the fear of being put in "camps" think they are Natives nor does it imply that we think we are living in the 1800s......... History is a ***** too, especially when it doesn't serve the present desires for people to know it...

Oh, I get it. How do you like this one for a little bit of history of what people are capable of?

Unless you are native American, I'd bet you have more in common with the oppressors than the oppressed, if it's American history you want to discuss.

 

[Bunnykid68]

No one knows how to kill Americans like Americans. My grandfather has told me stories he heard from his grandfather who was a sergeant in an Indiana regiment during the War Between the States. He says he remembers the look on his grandfather's face when he talked about the horror of fighting against countrymen and how he hoped nothing like it would ever happen again.

It makes me physically ill to think about raising a hand against a fellow American. I've been deployed overseas. I've seen combat. I just can't imagine doing it against a neighbor. I pray that I'm not in this world for that.

Just call it like I see it. It is going to get nasty someday, very nasty, might as well realize the zombies will want what is theirs even if you think it is yours.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

This is what an American sounds like..

It's also what obummer sounded like the first time he got elected .

 

[RockofStrength]

Oh, I get it. How do you like this one for a little bit of history of what people are capable of?

Unless you are native American, I'd bet you have more in common with the oppressors than the oppressed, if it's American history you want to discuss.

Meanwhile, those same oh so wronged Native Americans were peaceful tree-huggers who did not make war, slaughter nearby tribes, and do the exact same thing EVERY OTHER CIVILIZATION has done in order to gain the land, prestige, and wealth it has today to one extent or another. Or should I be protesting that somewhere along the line my European ancestors were considered "barbarians" by the cultured Roman hordes and make images denouncing Roman oppression?

 

[Solitaire]

Meanwhile, those same oh so wronged Native Americans were peaceful tree-huggers who did not make war, slaughter nearby tribes, and do the exact same thing EVERY OTHER CIVILIZATION has done in order to gain the land, prestige, and wealth it has today to one extent or another. Or should I be protesting that somewhere along the line my European ancestors were considered "barbarians" by the cultured Roman hordes and make images denouncing Roman oppression?

Two wrongs make a right.

Got it.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Oh, I get it. How do you like this one for a little bit of history of what people are capable of?

Unless you are native American, I'd bet you have more in common with the oppressors than the oppressed, if it's American history you want to discuss.

No, I do not have the blood of those who where here before us flowing through my veins but I actually DO align myself much more closely to the views and teachings of them (the way they were when we got here). It is something that is so far gone however that barring a TEOTWAWKI event it will never be known again.

 

[Solitaire]

It's also what obummer sounded like the first time he got elected .

You still here? Shouldn't you be packing to flee to Texas?

Ranger Walker is waiting for ya.

 

[88GT]

You apparently think you are intelligent.

Moderately so, yeah. But did you really just use a personal attack on my intelligence as a rebuttal?

What is your suggestion?

What is my suggestion for what? For saving our country? It sure as hell ain't breaking it up into warring pieces. And quite honestly, I don't know that it can be saved.

As you quoted in my post I said it would not happen. That does not leave force, that leaves it would never happen.

I don't care whether you think it will happen or not. I said that if it did, regardless of how (you're the one who kept harping on the how), it would be the dumbest move Indiana could make. I honestly don't know what you're arguing at this point.

What will I get from it? You answered your own question. That is good enough for me. It did not hurt you for me to sign this petition. So besides just trying to be a dick I have to wonder what your point is.

That's hilarious since you're the one who started this exchange.

You have offered no suggestions,

Is that the price of admission to this thread.

don't really see the point in "highlighting the stupidity of secession",

You see the point in signing a document advocating a secession that will never happen but can't see the point in highlighting the stupidity of secession? Alllllriiiiightythen.

if you don't agree with it don't sign it. It is still a free country.

You really think this is about signing the petitions, don't you? I know that's what you made this discussion into, but my original comment had nothing to do with signing the petitions. I think it's a fool's errand and has no real benefit. But I don't care if people want to do it.

 

[RockofStrength]

Two wrongs make a right.

Got it.

It is the question of why a person has a right to land. Those Native Americans killed and took land from others. A European lands and uses some guns and disease and does the same thing. Apparently I'm meant to feel guilty for the latter, but the former gets a free pass because...there was less racism in it?

People are just that: people. People have raped, murdered, pillaged, and burned since Cain and Able. Just because a guy goes on about a cross and calls himself a "Christian" doesn't in itself overcome the simple human selfishness and idiocy that causes every war and conflict in our long and bloody history.

 

[Bunnykid68]

And quite honestly, I don't know that it can be saved.

I do not think it can be saved either