Sanders: 'We have got to apologize for slavery

[cobber]

Have the descendants of African and Arab slavers apologized for their part in the trade? It's not like a gang of South Carolinians landed on the shores of Ghana and marched inland, capturing slaves for export.

Rambone's point is well-taken. And Sanders should have known better than to pander on this issue.

 

[Alpo]

Should have waited 2 weeks to edit your post. You might have come up with something better.

Very disagreeable humor for a chaplain, don'tcha think? They're looking for a replacement for Fred. Let Go Let God.

 

[rhino]

I have the solution to this whole non-problem.

Here's what we do: sub-contract the guilt, shame, apologies, and reparations to the government and people of Japan. They love doing business and they do shame and apologies on an epic level the likes of which we could never hope to approach. For a little cash, we get the job done by real professionals.

Boom.

You're welcome.

 

[BigMatt]

I would gladly apologize to all the black people I know if it would bring an end to this issue. Problem is, it won't.

 

[churchmouse]

I would gladly apologize to all the black people I know if it would bring an end to this issue. Problem is, it won't.

Exactly.

 

[KG1]

Have the descendants of African and Arab slavers apologized for their part in the trade? It's not like a gang of South Carolinians landed on the shores of Ghana and marched inland, capturing slaves for export.

Rambone's point is well-taken. And Sanders should have known better than to pander on this issue.

Sanders gave the politically expedient answer knowing full well that he needs to gain access to the black constituency.

 

[Cygnus]

I have zero to apologize for. Zero. My family came here in the earlier part of the 20th century. In fact when they moved it was less than 30 years after they were freed from the yoke of the Ottoman Empire.....
Lke I said, I have zero guilt. I do wonder if I could get som ecash out of the Turks today though.......hmmmmm.

Of course slavery in all froms and all eras is/was wrong and morally reprhensable. Goes without saying. But to assume I have any connection to slave owners from this country's past simply based on my complextion is well, racist....

 

[Que]

Have the descendants of African and Arab slavers apologized for their part in the trade? It's not like a gang of South Carolinians landed on the shores of Ghana and marched inland, capturing slaves for export.

Rambone's point is well-taken. And Sanders should have known better than to pander on this issue.

I was in Ghana when the government (King Otomfuo Nana Osei Tutu and President John Kufuor) apologized for its part in selling its' people into slavery. I also know the President of Benin came to America to apologize. The entire issue is a matter of the heart and we can only know our own hearts.

[video=youtube;HaqAJw8_EPo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaqAJw8_EPo[/video]

 

[ArmedProgrammer]

And now for a brief interlude by the Eagles...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1H-Y7MAASkg

 

[jamil]

Seriously, I am willing to concede that maybe there is something to it. Maybe I'm just thinking of this too much like an INTP personality type. Maybe thinking and reasoning isn't enough to gain the full perspective. Maybe some people are just wired to need a feeling. Maybe it's like funerals, which I think are unnecessary, except that many people need them to satisfy a sense of psychological "closure".

Maybe hearing a head of state apologize for some distant past is similar to that kind of psychological need, that some people just need so much to feel like the guilty have admitted fault and are sorry, that it doesn't matter to them if the truly guilty ones aren't the ones "apologizing". Maybe that's still somehow satisfying. So maybe I should assume that some people have a legitimate need to feel apologized to.

Fine. If you ask me to try to understand your feeling, please return the curtsey and try to understand my thinking. I think that any such feeling one could gain from an apology from some head of state who never participated in whatever offense is misplaced. If I were a black person today, and I sought the kind of closure an apology would give, I can't get that. Those people are dead. Certainly there are people still living from the Jim Crow era. Maybe they'll apologize. But a head of state can't legitimately apologize for them.

On an intellectual level only the responsible individuals can legitimately apologize. In other words, a POTUS who's never supported slavery himself, can say he's apologizing on behalf of the nation, but his statement can't function as a real apology. The POTUS doesn't and can't speak for those who were responsible for slavery.

I can see a head of state sincerely stating, "I'm sorry that happened. It was wrong." And that's not an apology. It is sympathy. Which could evoke a sense of closure in itself.

 

[Alpo]

So....back to Bernie....you can see that maybe his perplexion was where you've ended up, Jamil?

 

[jamil]

So....back to Bernie....you can see that maybe his perplexion was where you've ended up, Jamil?

Well, I wish he would have said that no president can legitimately apologize for that and the most he could legitimately offer is a sincere admission that those policies and institutions were wrong."

At first it seemed that's kinda where he was going with it, but then after the reporter pressed him for a "yes/no", he seemed to go for the more politically expedient answer. He's a politician who basically has support from one demographic: white progressives. What else can he say?

 

[rambone]

I can see a head of state sincerely stating, "I'm sorry that happened. It was wrong." And that's not an apology. It is sympathy. Which could evoke a sense of closure in itself.

Bill Clinton did exactly that almost 20 years ago. Not good enough... Apology not accepted.

 

[jamil]

Bill Clinton did exactly that almost 20 years ago. Not good enough... Apology not accepted.

How could that be an apology? It's nothing more than sympathy. Apparently that's not enough. But it is enough to help get him continued support from the left, most of us rolled our eyes at his, "I feel your pain."

 

[ruger1800]

If people stop whining about how their lives have been ruined by the past, and WORK towards the future. Na never gonna happen, even if they had never been slaves.

 

[Alpo]

]In answer to a question on "what is American Socialism" above, I saw this in the Guardian this morning. While not strictly my definition, it does give a flavor to what Bernie has said in the past and how he has voted.

Socialism in 21st century America is a government that exists to serve the common people, the working people, the middle class, not an arm of the richest and most powerful segment of society. It’s a government that creates and nurtures policies that promote the best possible conditions for every citizen to have a healthy, prosperous, peaceful and productive life.

A prior point raised on the Estate tax caused me to do a little research. I remembered the amount of taxes generated to be from a small segment of society. This is what I found.

Key Facts

• The estate tax raised $8.5 billion in 2012 — less than 1% of the $1.2 trillion inherited that year.
• Only 1 out of every 700 deaths results in paying the federal estate tax today. The vast majority of estates — 99.9% — do not pay federal estate taxes.
• While the top estate tax rate is 40%, the average tax rate paid is just 17%.
• The estate tax is only paid on assets greater than $5.3 million per individual ($10.6 million per couple). Even billionaires pay nothing on the first $5.3 million left to their heirs.
• Only 20 small business and family farm estates nationwide will owe any estate tax in 2013.

 

[Alpo]

Well, I wish he would have said that no president can legitimately apologize for that and the most he could legitimately offer is a sincere admission that those policies and institutions were wrong."

At first it seemed that's kinda where he was going with it, but then after the reporter pressed him for a "yes/no", he seemed to go for the more politically expedient answer. He's a politician who basically has support from one demographic: white progressives. What else can he say?

I think all candidates have to be given a wide degree of latitude and forgiveness when answering the myriad of questions that get thrown at them daily. Otherwise, you end up with an approach like Hillary: prepared, safe, non-comittal dreck.

 

[jamil]

]In answer to a question on "what is American Socialism" above, I saw this in the Guardian this morning. While not strictly my definition, it does give a flavor to what Bernie has said in the past and how he has voted.



A prior point raised on the Estate tax caused me to do a little research. I remembered the amount of taxes generated to be from a small segment of society. This is what I found.

That definition doesn't seem to be what's actually been accomplished by progressives from my point of view. And yes, I'd classify American progressives as social democrats.

 

[Alpo]

Probably true. I'm for some social programs, but that doesn't make me a socialist. And if progressive was defined as it was in Teddy Roosevelt's time, I'd be a progressive.

 

[cobber]

I was in Ghana when the government (King Otomfuo Nana Osei Tutu and President John Kufuor) apologized for its part in selling its' people into slavery. I also know the President of Benin came to America to apologize. The entire issue is a matter of the heart and we can only know our own hearts.

It's a start. When all parties involved have apologized a few times and made reparations, then we can look at whether Bernie should apologize too.


Also waiting for the British to apologize to the Celts, and the Celts to the Picts. And the Egyptians to the Israelites.