Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

[smokingman]

Former Ukrainian PM: Putin saved hundreds of thousands of lives

In a message on Facebook, Azarov underscored that NATO had been planning a nuclear attack on Russia. “NATO wanted to unleash a third world war by using nuclear weapons against Russia,” Azarov said. “Since December 2021,

freewestmedia.com

One of Ukraine’s main media sources, Hromadske, discussing Donbass as a region that has a “huge number of absolutely useless people.” Of the 4M in Donetsk area at the time, 1.5M are “superfluous,” and “simply must be killed.” Donbass is just a “source of resources.”

This was posted by the former prime minister of Ukraine(2004,2005,2010) on twitter. His account of course no longer exists(posted it March 8,2022).

 

[BugI02]

They will say "oops".

It only matters, when people are ready to fight.
And.. most don't seem to be.

Which oddly, seems to make it worse instead of better.
While we don't want people to want to rush off to war after every slight, we also don't want people that roll over after every provocation either. Chamberlain anyone?

Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

 

[actaeon277]

 

[BugI02]

No, no they won't.

If we have a full scale nuclear war, it'll be years before it'd be possible to grow crops due to the ash clouds blocking out the sun.

And this is also assuming anyone would be left standing with the capability to do more than merely try to survive under those conditions.

Pretty good, straight forward explanation of the effects of a nuclear strike on a city but it is cluttered with a pacifist 'we all need to disarm and pinky swear we won't ever build them again' message at the end

 

[BugI02]

Ward has some good videos.
If I remember, he was a F-14 driver. And has some good videos.

He has some insight into this. But I'd take it with a grain of salt.
Not saying he's wrong.
Just that he's been out a while.

I agree with a lot of what he says.
But still, situations are fluid. You can be right today, and then tactics adapt, or a weapon comes out, or logistics gets unf'd.

Also, bad leaders get replaced.

His saying '... ignore what Putin thinks is escalating while avoiding World War III, in so much as it can be avoided ...' is just a bit to glib for me

I see very little in Putin's way should he decide to go nuclear

 

[thunderchicken]

I don't have the insight many of you here have about this whole situation. So I'm going to ask a question that probably seems dumb to many of you, but something I've been pondering during this whole invasion.
It has been said that one reason Putin invaded was he doesn't want a NATO country on his border. I get Ukraine was wanting to join NATO. If, Russia and Putin takes over Ukraine wouldn't he be putting a NATO country on the border since Poland is on the border?

Trying to cut through all the BS is incredibly difficult and hard to know who to believe in all this mess.

Edit- does anyone else think that Russia bombing hospitals and such maybe a tactic in an attempt to draw us into the war?

 

[smokingman]

China's answer to US pressure about supporting Russia.
No Iphones for you.

China faces biggest Covid-19 crisis since Wuhan as cases surge

After topping 1,000 for two days, the number of locally transmitted cases around the country races to more than 3,100, mostly driven by Jilin province.

www.scmp.com

Unless you really believe 2000 covid cases is a reason to lock down 17 million(again),but only in cities that export US company products.

Port of Shenzhen is now closed as well. (updated this post). It is the largest container port(almost all electronics,phones,computers,and tech made in China leave through this port). The port consists of an eastern and a western port. But overall, it’s spread out over some 260km of the city’s coastline. Around 560 ships call at Shenzhen Port monthly, covering over 130 international container routes. All just shut down. That did not ever happen before,not even at the height of their first covid wave. They may be trying to send a message to world that keeps pushing them to join sanctions against Russia. ​

 

[Tombs]

I don't have the insight many of you here have about this whole situation. So I'm going to ask a question that probably seems dumb to many of you, but something I've been pondering during this whole invasion.
It has been said that one reason Putin invaded was he doesn't want a NATO country on his border. I get Ukraine was wanting to join NATO. If, Russia and Putin takes over Ukraine wouldn't he be putting a NATO country on the border since Poland is on the border?

Trying to cut through all the BS is incredibly difficult and hard to know who to believe in all this mess.

Edit- does anyone else think that Russia bombing hospitals and such maybe a tactic in an attempt to draw us into the war?

I don't think their goal is to "own" Ukraine.

They want to make it a satellite puppet state to act as a buffer.

 

[DadSmith]

Reports in Russian media accuses Ukraine of sabotaging chemical plant

Several Russian media outlets have accused Ukrainian forces of sabotaging the Avdiivka advanced chemistry plant in the Donetsk region of Ukraine.

www.jpost.com

Russian media accuses Ukraine of sabotaging chemical plant

 

[smokingman]

Reports in Russian media accuses Ukraine of sabotaging chemical plant

Several Russian media outlets have accused Ukrainian forces of sabotaging the Avdiivka advanced chemistry plant in the Donetsk region of Ukraine.

www.jpost.com

Russian media accuses Ukraine of sabotaging chemical plant

Only one problem with that. There are almost zero Russian troops there. Most are Donetsk natives(the Russian troops are around Mariupol) and I can not see people of any country setting a chemical fire on purpose in their own back yard. I can however see Azov(who is primarily engaged in the area) setting the fire. They have after all said all Russian speaking people in Donetsk need killed more than once. Do people here really not remember in 2014 when they made it illegal for awhile to even speak Russian right after the maiden revolution(before Donetsk declared independence,before Russia took Crimea)?

The language thing never stopped either. https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/01/19/new-language-requirement-raises-concerns-ukraine

Now consider where Azov is located. They are being attacked from the west by the army of Ukraine,and from the north and south by Russia. https://tapnewswire.com/2022/03/ukr...hq-of-azov-nationalist-battalion-in-mariupol/
So who would you think set the fire? "Russian's,Ukrainian's,or Azov? Who gains? Only Azov(thinks they gain by killing people who speak Russian).

 

[Brad69]

IMO
The Targeting of hospitals is more likely accidental Ivan is bad but not that bad. Hospitals also might being used by the Ukrainian forces as safe havens.

The Russian attack doesn’t seem off track. I do think they appear to be using roads more than I thought they would. The Russians always have suffered major logistical problems. They often do not have spare parts on hand. Also they do not send recovery vehicles into the fight.

In contrast our heavy forces have tank retrievers running all over the battlefield. Dragging stuff back to a collection point. Same with armored ambulances.

The foreign fighters hauling a$$ is kind of telling?

 

[rooster]

Good read on the foreign fighter situation. I’m looking to verify some of the claims but that’s probably going to take some time because anyone smart turns their phone off and stops posting on social media when they get to Ukraine.

High points
1. Foreign legion volunteers asked to sign indef contracts
2. Pay is 250 a month
3. 3-5 days of training and then sent to the frontlines.

archive.ph

 

[Keith_Indy]

The foreign fighters hauling a$$ is kind of telling?

You are presuming that the foreigners signing up to fight are already trained as fighters. I've not seen any hard stats on that either way.

If they're getting a lot of soyboy volunteers from reddit whose only exposure to violence is call of duty, many of them are going to turn tail when they find out they aren't getting the bad ass sniper rifle and there are no BUFF's or crates they can pick up in the field. Oh, and they missed the part where it's 1 life, no reset.

 

[Ark]

Jody never changes.

 

[nra4ever]

Here is a post from reddit

a post from Red___dit/volunteersForUkraine:

Yes, I was here today and blown off the top bunk of my bunk bed in the barracks by the first missile. I made a long post about it but my posts don't show on this thread for some reason. This is where all the foreign legion troops are, the 35 killed were all Ukrainian mostly due to a direct hit on their barracks next to mine. The base is destroyed, the weapons depot destroyed, possibly the end of the legion. About 60 people with their heads on straight including myself left after the attack. They're sending untrained guys to the front with little ammo and **** AKs and they're getting killed. The guys who stayed got bombed again in the afternoon and casualties aren't clear. If you still want to to join them I'm not sure what the process will be since literally all the infrastructure supporting the training/assignments of volunteers is all destroyed. The guys who are there now will all be going to Kviv and many will die, the legion is totally outgunned and has a few crazy Ukrainian leaders. After the attack one officer wanted to march everyone to Kviv and fight. Absolute insanity. Stay home.


I joined as a medic, and planned to create casualty evacuation routes and help setup field hospitals for the volunteers and also serve on the front with them. I was assigned to a platoon yesterday as a medic. Nobody I have met were really running headfirst into it, except maybe guys with no experience. The legion was actually amazingly well-put together in some ways, uniforms were great, armor provided, good food. This made a lot of experienced people expect a legitimate military operation out of the unit, but it's not like that at all. The actual frontlines operational side is just sloppy and dangerous. And that guy shooting an AK at a tank was one guy, just an example of some stupidity on the front. The legion does have RPGs and stingers.


Everyone knew this would be the war. However, the legion promises a lot of **** they don't stay true to. And it increases risk sevenfold, which just isn't worth it for alot of people.

That was what a lot of people were saying, that they were pushing the legion up to Kviv as cannon fodder. And how can you argue that when guys are given no training, and AK with no butt stock, and one magazine? When guys were asking for more ammo a Ukrainian officer said "take it off dead russians"

How would you like me to prove it? I can tell you anything. Yes you have to sign a contract but yes it's complete ********, if you want to leave an hour later you're welcomed to. They assign positions like rifleman, medic, machine gunner but if you have never touched a rifle they might make you logistics or a driver. Bro I had ****ing thirteen cruise missiles drop on me this morning I am not ****ing around. I saw them pulling bodies from the wreckage, I was blown on my ass, I can tell you that the air raid siren did not go off meaning the legion has little to no radar support and absolutely no AA capability. We were at the mercy of Russian warplanes.

Left the legion. Some are staying to help refugees - some going home. But it is clear that going to Kviv with the legion is nearly a ****ing death sentence. A medic died the day after he got to the front, another guy tried shooting an AK at an APC and was killed immediately, a 10 man team was nearly wiped out - 8 killed and 2 crawled away. Your body will not be retrieved from the frontlines either.

 

[Ark]

Here is a post from reddit

a post from Red___dit/volunteersForUkraine:

Yes, I was here today and blown off the top bunk of my bunk bed in the barracks by the first missile. I made a long post about it but my posts don't show on this thread for some reason. This is where all the foreign legion troops are, the 35 killed were all Ukrainian mostly due to a direct hit on their barracks next to mine. The base is destroyed, the weapons depot destroyed, possibly the end of the legion. About 60 people with their heads on straight including myself left after the attack. They're sending untrained guys to the front with little ammo and **** AKs and they're getting killed. The guys who stayed got bombed again in the afternoon and casualties aren't clear. If you still want to to join them I'm not sure what the process will be since literally all the infrastructure supporting the training/assignments of volunteers is all destroyed. The guys who are there now will all be going to Kviv and many will die, the legion is totally outgunned and has a few crazy Ukrainian leaders. After the attack one officer wanted to march everyone to Kviv and fight. Absolute insanity. Stay home.


I joined as a medic, and planned to create casualty evacuation routes and help setup field hospitals for the volunteers and also serve on the front with them. I was assigned to a platoon yesterday as a medic. Nobody I have met were really running headfirst into it, except maybe guys with no experience. The legion was actually amazingly well-put together in some ways, uniforms were great, armor provided, good food. This made a lot of experienced people expect a legitimate military operation out of the unit, but it's not like that at all. The actual frontlines operational side is just sloppy and dangerous. And that guy shooting an AK at a tank was one guy, just an example of some stupidity on the front. The legion does have RPGs and stingers.


Everyone knew this would be the war. However, the legion promises a lot of **** they don't stay true to. And it increases risk sevenfold, which just isn't worth it for alot of people.

That was what a lot of people were saying, that they were pushing the legion up to Kviv as cannon fodder. And how can you argue that when guys are given no training, and AK with no butt stock, and one magazine? When guys were asking for more ammo a Ukrainian officer said "take it off dead russians"

How would you like me to prove it? I can tell you anything. Yes you have to sign a contract but yes it's complete ********, if you want to leave an hour later you're welcomed to. They assign positions like rifleman, medic, machine gunner but if you have never touched a rifle they might make you logistics or a driver. Bro I had ****ing thirteen cruise missiles drop on me this morning I am not ****ing around. I saw them pulling bodies from the wreckage, I was blown on my ass, I can tell you that the air raid siren did not go off meaning the legion has little to no radar support and absolutely no AA capability. We were at the mercy of Russian warplanes.

Left the legion. Some are staying to help refugees - some going home. But it is clear that going to Kviv with the legion is nearly a ****ing death sentence. A medic died the day after he got to the front, another guy tried shooting an AK at an APC and was killed immediately, a 10 man team was nearly wiped out - 8 killed and 2 crawled away. Your body will not be retrieved from the frontlines either.

Saw some other 4chan stuff to that effect. Dudes coming in, taking selfies, and then immediately bailing back to Poland when they find out they're in a platoon of people with no clue what they're doing and they aren't being issued ammo and cool missiles to play with.

I don't think Ukraine really needs the manpower right now. They're probably trying to minimize the collateral damage the foreigners inflict as they go out and die like idiots, or ditch their gear and desert.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

I don't have the insight many of you here have about this whole situation. So I'm going to ask a question that probably seems dumb to many of you, but something I've been pondering during this whole invasion.
It has been said that one reason Putin invaded was he doesn't want a NATO country on his border. I get Ukraine was wanting to join NATO. If, Russia and Putin takes over Ukraine wouldn't he be putting a NATO country on the border since Poland is on the border?

Trying to cut through all the BS is incredibly difficult and hard to know who to believe in all this mess.

This video has a good explanation on this exact question, from 3:44 to 9:00 (this is the relevant part of the video, I'm not sure about everything else the video says.) Basically, it has a lot to do with geography, and it's less about Russia not wanting to border a NATO country, and more about how if Ukraine joined NATO, it would drastically change what the "front line" would be in the event a war between NATO and Russia broke out, making it much more difficult for Russia to defend their border, if you consider "their" border to be the border between NATO countries, and Russia-friendly countries.

 

[DadSmith]

IMO
The Targeting of hospitals is more likely accidental Ivan is bad but not that bad. Hospitals also might being used by the Ukrainian forces as safe havens.

The Russian attack doesn’t seem off track. I do think they appear to be using roads more than I thought they would. The Russians always have suffered major logistical problems. They often do not have spare parts on hand. Also they do not send recovery vehicles into the fight.

In contrast our heavy forces have tank retrievers running all over the battlefield. Dragging stuff back to a collection point. Same with armored ambulances.

The foreign fighters hauling a$$ is kind of telling?

I've seen an M88 pull a few Abrams out of the mud. One they had it stuck in mud higher than the tracks. The M88 pulled it right out.
Are M88's still in use? Or do they have something better nowadays?

 

[BigMoose]

I've seen an M88 pull a few Abrams out of the mud. One they had it stuck in mud higher than the tracks. The M88 pulled it right out.
Are M88's still in use? Or do they have something better nowadays?

Yep, and they are building more. With more powerful motors. And retrofitting the older ones.

 

[KG1]

I'm wondering if James Yeager had left sooner if he might've been at that base training foreign fighters when it got hit. He said he was going there primarily on a training mission. IDK if he's even left yet to go over there. Maybe he has. I haven't seen any updates lately.