Russia vs Ukraine anyone watching this ignite?

[Tombs]

IMO
The Targeting of hospitals is more likely accidental Ivan is bad but not that bad. Hospitals also might being used by the Ukrainian forces as safe havens.

The Russian attack doesn’t seem off track. I do think they appear to be using roads more than I thought they would. The Russians always have suffered major logistical problems. They often do not have spare parts on hand. Also they do not send recovery vehicles into the fight.

In contrast our heavy forces have tank retrievers running all over the battlefield. Dragging stuff back to a collection point. Same with armored ambulances.

The foreign fighters hauling a$$ is kind of telling?

I don't think targeting hospitals is an accident, I also don't think it's out of some crazy blood thirst either.

I've heard more than one story now of Ukrainians using hospitals, apartments, and schools to fight from. Likely to gather sympathy from the west when Russia inevitably attacks it. Russia does not respect the sanctity of those places because it encourages this kind of activity. Kind of like how we don't negotiate with terrorists or pay ransoms.

Fighting from places like this is pretty common with an insurgency, especially when you have 100% total media backing and no chance of losing the propaganda war.

 

[bobzilla]

How is what I posted pro Russian? Does that mean the UN is pro Russian? https://www.un.org/press/en/2019/sc13884.doc.htm

Posting the reality is neither pro or against one side or the other. It is simply reality. That you choose to see it as pro one side or the other means you picked a side. I never will. I am in the George Washington school of thought group. https://historynewsnetwork.org/blog/3572

I mean other than cherry picking data and sounding like the Russian propaganda machine word for word I do t know why we’d think you were pro-Russian. No clue. None.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Because Europe doesn't let you have those things.

I'd sure as hell max out a credit card on a good optic, mount, gear, armor, boots, etc though.

Exactly! And this is why (among a thousand other reasons) the 2nd amendment is so necessary. I get so mad when I see the hypocrites who are opposed to 2A rights here, but were praising Ukraine for handing out rifles to civilians, trying to justify their hypocrisy with "Oh, but you only need those weapons during wartime, so civilians shouldn't own weapons unless they're being invaded." How can they not see that if you don't give the civilians the opportunity to have trained with and used those weapons, they're going be useless at worst and significantly less effective at best. (Not to mention that the weapons you receive from the government could be a load of crap, like we see going on there.)

But I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, lol...

 

[BugI02]

How is what I posted pro Russian? Does that mean the UN is pro Russian? https://www.un.org/press/en/2019/sc13884.doc.htm

Posting the reality is neither pro or against one side or the other. It is simply reality. That you choose to see it as pro one side or the other means you picked a side. I never will. I am in the George Washington school of thought group. https://historynewsnetwork.org/blog/3572

I am speaking to perceived selection bias. You post about Ukraine restricting the speaking of Russian as if that was a unique happening that occurred in a vacuum and not something the Russians themselves are accomplished players at

You should not be saying 'look at all sides of any issue' out of one side while the other is selecting cites so as to present only the side that meets with your approval. There is nothing wrong with favoring the Russian side, as long it is not a hidden agenda, but admitting it also puts you on the hook for defending all the truly evil stuff they have done and will do. The same is true with defending the Ukrainians, but I'm pretty convinced that will involve less defending of the indefensible

 

[BugI02]

I'm admittedly not as well versed in this whole Azov dynamic but what I am gathering from your posts is that they are at the root cause of a lot problems taking place in the Russia/Ukraine conflict.

Or it could be that the operations that 'blank shield' Russian soldiers conducted in advance of the seizure of Crimea inflamed tensions so that Putin could highlight one side of the clashes as a fig leaf to justify annexing Crimea to 'save' Russofile Ukrainians

 

[printcraft]

I don't think targeting hospitals is an accident, I also don't think it's out of some crazy blood thirst either.

I've heard more than one story now of Ukrainians using hospitals, apartments, and schools to fight from. Likely to gather sympathy from the west when Russia inevitably attacks it. Russia does not respect the sanctity of those places because it encourages this kind of activity. Kind of like how we don't negotiate with terrorists or pay ransoms.

Fighting from places like this is pretty common with an insurgency, especially when you have 100% total media backing and no chance of losing the propaganda war.

Yes, like jihadis hiding in mosques. You don't dare drop a 500 lb. bomb on them or the backlash would be horrible.
Ukraines problem is that only works on countries "not Russia".

 

[BugI02]

Yes, like jihadis hiding in mosques. You don't dare drop a 500 lb. bomb on them or the backlash would be horrible.
Ukraines problem is that only works on countries "not Russia".

This^^^

See: Site selection by 'Palestinians' for rocket lunches from Gaza into Israel

 

[bobzilla]

I am speaking to perceived selection bias. You post about Ukraine restricting the speaking of Russian as if that was a unique happening that occurred in a vacuum and not something the Russians themselves are accomplished players at

You should not be saying 'look at all sides of any issue' out of one side while the other is selecting cites so as to present only the side that meets with your approval. There is nothing wrong with favoring the Russian side, as long it is not a hidden agenda, but admitting it also puts you on the hook for defending all the truly evil stuff they have done and will do. The same is true with defending the Ukrainians, but I'm pretty convinced that will involve less defending of the indefensible

In all honesty he may not even be pro-ruskies as much as anti-Ukrainians. Maybe his mom dated one after his dad split and that’s why he hates them so much. Or his sister married a Ukrainian dude to get his citizenship. We don’t know.

 

[Brad69]

You guys need witness people hauling A$$$ for bomb shelters when stuff is blowing up!

Oh when it's a Drill they just take there time when boom hits they are like Bruce Jenner back in the day.

 

[Ark]

Exactly! And this is why (among a thousand other reasons) the 2nd amendment is so necessary. I get so mad when I see the hypocrites who are opposed to 2A rights here, but were praising Ukraine for handing out rifles to civilians, trying to justify their hypocrisy with "Oh, but you only need those weapons during wartime, so civilians shouldn't own weapons unless they're being invaded." How can they not see that if you don't give the civilians the opportunity to have trained with and used those weapons, they're going be useless at worst and significantly less effective at best. (Not to mention that the weapons you receive from the government could be a load of crap, like we see going on there.)

But I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, lol...

Eh. Europe is WEFistan now and they prefer their populace submissive, untrained, and dependent. Defending themselves doesn't even factor in, they think their controls and manipulations and "vision" for our lives has abolished petty, outdated practices like war.

 

[KG1]

Or it could be that the operations that 'blank shield' Russian soldiers conducted in advance of the seizure of Crimea inflamed tensions so that Putin could highlight one side of the clashes as a fig leaf to justify annexing Crimea to 'save' Russofile Ukrainians

Could very well be. I was just commenting on his take which appears to suggest that Azov is the root cause.

 

[Kurr]

 

[churchmouse]

Fellas I/we/staff are getting reports that this is getting a bit rough and personal. I do not want to review the entire thread so lets just all be adults and act as such OK. If I have to come back people will be set out. No more in threads. This is on list in the staff forum so just ease up OK.....Please.

 

[DadSmith]

Russia-Ukraine: Parliament of NATO country Estonia calls for 'immediate' establishment of no-fly zone

The Parliament of Estonia on Monday called for UN member states to “take immediate steps to establish a no-fly zone” over Ukraine to prevent further civilian casualties as Russia’s multi-front war against the country rages on.

www.foxnews.com

 

[nra4ever]

 

[rooster]

I think it’s very clear now that Putin doesn’t care what the rest of the world has to say

 

[BugI02]

In all honesty he may not even be pro-ruskies as much as anti-Ukrainians. Maybe his mom dated one after his dad split and that’s why he hates them so much. Or his sister married a Ukrainian dude to get his citizenship. We don’t know.

But he is a rational, intelligent human being. He may not wish to discuss the issue but I have no doubt he could if he so desires

 

[bobzilla]

But he is a rational, intelligent human being. He may not wish to discuss the issue but I have no doubt he could if he so desires

It was my (poor) attempt at humor

 

[gvbcraig]

I continue to wonder why what you post sometimes seems so one-sidedly pro-Russian

The suppression of language is not a new thing, the Ukrainians have been the victims of it many times - and not just historically, you will note Ukrainian was suppressed under Yanukovich in 2012 as well as in Crimea and the LPR and DPR in 2014 after the annexation of Crimea

It is surely one technique in forced assimilation or ethnic cleansing, but the Ukrainians are hardly its worst practitioners

Chronology of Ukrainian language suppression - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Ukrainian language has been Russified since Stalin's time, like you stated "forced assimilation". What occurred after 2014 was an attempt by the Ukrainians to reverse that russification of the language. When I listen to Ukrainians who grew up in Ukraine after WW2, I can hear the Russian dialect, they don't even know they are speaking/using Russian verbiage. The Ukrainian language dialect that I grew up with, is pre WW2, brought out of the Ukraine by refugees and was not as heavily influenced by the Russification. There is a major difference in the two. The language is part of the Ukrainian identity and their ethnicity.

 

[BugI02]

Could very well be. I was just commenting on his take which appears to suggest that Azov is the root cause.

Understood. Azov does appear to be prototypical warlord material, but this type of set up brings those people to the fore. Having them fight for Ukraine is a deal with the Devil. It is effective until you need to bring them in from the cold and make them part of civilization

Putin using Chechens and Syrians doesn't win him any sanity points, though. Atrocities worse than we have already seen are only a matter of time IMO