Rob Pincus - Appropriate Open Carry

[beararms1776]

That was a great, excellent, fantastic video. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Rob Pincus]

That was a great, excellent, fantastic video. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks!

****

Meanwhile, ATM, your faux intellectualism doesn't hide the fact that you ignored my hypothesis about the importance of OCers policing their own. Regardless of your speculation about what others would do, you should take the high ground and insist on responsibility in your own ranks.

-RJP

 

[Robjps]

With emphasis added:



I guess I'm confused about what you were saying in your original post, then as it appears you are saying that hiding guns is why we are losing our rights. I again ask what rights we've lost in Indiana or at a federal level due to hiding our firearms. Indiana got the LTCH in what...1983 or so? Was lack of open carry really what caused the GCA of 1986?

If it has nothing to do with CC vs OC why its relevant to this thread?

Your edit jobs could land you a job on msnbc. Your questions have all been answered but you are choosing to dodge it.

 

[Double T]

Open carry is a huge headache IMO, and I'm far too worried about people noticing me for me to notice people. It's not a complacency thing, I just have a much harder problem watching people when I am worried about being watched myself.

Did that make sense? I still support open carry, even if I don't do it myself any longer.

 

[esrice]

Open carry is a huge headache IMO, and I'm far too worried about people noticing me for me to notice people. It's not a complacency thing, I just have a much harder problem watching people when I am worried about being watched myself.

Did that make sense? I still support open carry, even if I don't do it myself any longer.

I get what you're saying and agree with you.

I look at my choice to conceal more about tactics, and less about the gun itself or gun rights.

In this video by WETSU you'll see a pretty normal looking guy. What you don't see is that he's concealing soft armor, a couple guns, mags, a few knives, flashlight, pepper spray, trauma kit, and survival kit. Now think how different he would look if all of that stuff were visible. Even taking the guns out of the picture, he'd still stand out wearing soft armor on the outside of his clothes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9Q2CwrLK5s

My point is, its no one's business how I protect myself. I don't want a reason to stand out. I won't knock anyone for choosing to OC, but I prefer not to show that card.

 

[Spike_351]

I oc and cc depending on what I am doing and wearing, and in the mean time I never look for a confrontation and I avoid them at all costs. I am a very calm person who believes in JFC......can the OC and CC sides of the debate find common ground to agree upon already?

 

[the1kidd03]

I oc and cc depending on what I am doing and wearing, and in the mean time I never look for a confrontation and I avoid them at all costs. I am a very calm person who believes in JFC......can the OC and CC sides of the debate find common ground to agree upon already?

NO...because all OCers are the devil....

 

[ATM]

...

Meanwhile, ATM, your faux intellectualism doesn't hide the fact that you ignored my hypothesis about the importance of OCers policing their own. Regardless of your speculation about what others would do, you should take the high ground and insist on responsibility in your own ranks.

-RJP

Well, I could dumb it down for you if that's what you'd prefer.*

I already told you I'd be ignoring most of what you've said and typed, so don't act shocked. I've simply dismissed the lowest hanging fruit and was waiting for something fresh or interesting to address.

You haven't shown me anything I'd consider irresponsible from an OCer, so I'll just continue policing you in this thread for your unsupported personal biases which seem to compel you to rant publicly against those who choose to carry differently and/or for different reasons than you think they ought.


*Dumb version: Your stuff is weak 'cause you just a hater.

 

[the1kidd03]

I'm sure I have a lot more training, study, professional development, continuing education and experience in my profession than a first year teacher or doctor who has earned their "license".... And more than most who practice either profession for a full career. It is "disingenuous and condescending" to ignore that fact.

To be fact it must be proven from BOTH sides. Displaying a list of courses you've attended does not actually PROVE anything if you cannot also provide the list of training for the same time frame from those you wish to compare yourself to. Therefore, this is nothing more than your speculation.

I publicly and privately condemned/chastised the behavior you referenced as did every other professional in the industry that I am aware of.

This is pertinent why? While I wouldn't second guess you and the other so called "professionals" guns and defensive skills, I can certainly question your comprehension/education/background of studies in psychology, sociology, public relations, leadership, etc. and their application, or lack thereof, to your position, profession, and activities.

More importantly, Yeager apologized for the outburst, lawyered up and retracted his statement.... How many confrontational OCers have been publicly criticized by responsible OCers and publicly apologized for their assclownery??

Well, that depends on your definition of "publically." They typically get a good bashing on sites such as this by the responsible OCers just as people like Yeager, but those responsible ones don't go tracking the idiots down to bash them. Why?

Probably because they are nobodies and are not claiming to be "professionals" in our industry which is in essence staking claim to being a "leader" and representing our community as a whole.

You on the other hand are a "professional" and as such are held at a higher expectation to represent the people you work with AND for. Instead of setting an appropriate example as a leader and TRUE professional you are choosing to divide our "team" further by ineffectively stereotyping a huge segment of it, and then publically condescending and chastising them for their choices. All while claiming to be a staunch gun and liberty advocate. How can you be pro-liberty/gun yet chastize people for their choices?

It's fine and well to have your opinion. After all that is part of the liberty we are supposed to have here, but when putting yourself in the light as a "professional" and representing a demographic of people to the rest of the world it might do you well to avoid dividing that demographic up merely based on your opinions. Especially since whatever ideology you present will be accepted by the rest of society as reminiscent and appropriate for the rest of gun owners since you claim to be a "professional."

If nothing else, it is after all that demographic who pays you for your expertise. I don't see how a business plan can stand to serve well in the long run if you CHOOSE to cut your potential client base in half by poorly representing that demographic of people.

But hey, as a "professional," business owner, and someone who seeks so much continuing education you already realize all of this and apparently jut don't care....

Maybe that is the crux of this issue..... If the OC Community did a better job of policing their own and being critical of the Confrontational OCers, maybe there wouldn't be an "us v them" mentality amongst us...

Again, you're promoting division within our ranks. Why is it only OCers' responsibility to hold the idiots you speak of accountable? Are you not a gun owner? Do those idiots' actions not affect us all?

It would simply be Responsible Firearms Owners v Others.

-RJP

It will be, as soon as the so called "professionals" quit promoting these division lines and simply advocate for the FREEDOM of choice. A true professional would prefer to take advantage of the "confrontational OC" situation by putting out public education on HOW TO appropriatley OC, rather than simply bashing everyone for their choice. You know, make use of their fame and status to help the rest of the community and putting out an appropriate education to do so.

But again, what do I know? You're the "professional" here....

 

[beararms1776]

I see the video as a plus for those who choose to cc but may be considering oc. Some great strategy points to take into consideration.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

You are choosing to ignore it or are special either way. My point has nothing to be about CC vs OC it has to do about that the media has vilified gun owners to the point where people panic over the sight of firearms where before they were openly displayed (once again not talking about CC).

Perfect example was when CPS tried to take a kid for having a picture of him holding a 22.

The media portrays us as fringe militant groups, duck dynasty wannabes, and flat out crazies and that is what the uninformed public thinks we are. We need to desensitize the American public into realizing gun owners are all around them normal law abiding citizens.

1994 AWB 1986 machine gun registry at the Federal level. Not counting current attempts UN gun ban/AWB and schemes like fast and furious. You can also choose to ignore what goes on around you in IL CO NY CA and a dozen other states as it doesn't affect you...... yet. You need to realize things need to change and not in Obama's way.

How does one desensitize the general public when the general public is unaware of your firearm since you are hiding it?

Thanks!

****

Meanwhile, ATM, your faux intellectualism doesn't hide the fact that you ignored my hypothesis about the importance of OCers policing their own. Regardless of your speculation about what others would do, you should take the high ground and insist on responsibility in your own ranks.

-RJP

I thought we were on the same team and thus, of one rank. I guess not.

 

[Rhoadmar]

I'm sure I have a lot more training, study, professional development, continuing education and experience in my profession than a first year teacher or doctor who has earned their "license".... And more than most who practice either profession for a full career. It is "disingenuous and condescending" to ignore that fact.


-RJP

This is possibly the most arrogant attitude I have seen on display in a long time. Teacher , maybe. Doctor no. Your attitude from just this statement convinces me everything you say needs to be doubted from the outset.

 

[Spike_351]

my question, Why is everyone dog piling Mr. Pincus? So what if he is confident in his abilities, and has his own view on the OC/CC debate, we all have different opinions and we all for the most part get along just fine. Plus this is America isn't it? And I always thought INGO was about hearing different opinions than your own and learning from them.

 

[lrahm]

my question, Why is everyone dog piling Mr. Pincus? So what if he is confident in his abilities, and has his own view on the OC/CC debate, we all have different opinions and we all for the most part get along just fine. Plus this is America isn't it? And I always thought INGO was about hearing different opinions than your own and learning from them.

I agree, he gave both sides of a view and gave his opinion. Why attack him on his opinion alone.

 

[esrice]

Your attitude from just this statement convinces me everything you say needs to be doubted from the outset.

Why not just evaluate every statement of opinion through your own feelings and experience, like normal?

 

[Rhoadmar]

Why not just evaluate every statement of opinion through your own feelings and experience, like normal?

Exactly what I was doing.

 

[esrice]

Exactly what I was doing.

So 'wrong until proven right'? Everything he's ever contributed (or will contribute) is garbage because you don't agree with him on open carry?

 

[iChokePeople]

I thought we were on the same team and thus, of one rank. I guess not.

I don't think you understand the phrase he used. Not that kind of ranks.

 

[Rhoadmar]

So 'wrong until proven right'? Everything he's ever contributed (or will contribute) is garbage because you don't agree with him on open carry?

Doubted does not mean wrong. His attitude conveyed to me an underlying condescension towards those that oc, oc'rs are wrong and he is right. I don't bear Mr. Pincus any ill will some things I've heard from him I agree with. Just not with oc/cc, appropriate oc or lumping oc'rs into a broad category near marginal reprobates. I kind of have to side with ATM on this one.

 

[the1kidd03]

my question, Why is everyone dog piling Mr. Pincus? So what if he is confident in his abilities, and has his own view on the OC/CC debate, we all have different opinions and we all for the most part get along just fine. Plus this is America isn't it? And I always thought INGO was about hearing different opinions than your own and learning from them.

I agree, he gave both sides of a view and gave his opinion. Why attack him on his opinion alone.

Being a "professional" his opinion can have some serious affects. Read through my last post which alludes to some of the principals of this and my reasoning for disagreeing with his expressed opinions.