Open Carry Incident - Vincennes

[KW730]

OP: What did the chief say when you filed your complaint with the dept?

He was very pleasant and even ensured that I provided contact information so he could get back to me.

 

[Hornett]

Who sets these rules of conduct?

My Dad, my uncles, my friends Dads. The guy at the lgs. Mostly the gun community at large.

There are only 4 rules that I know of.

So, as long at you are don't point your gun at anything you don't want to shoot, keep your finger off the trigger, and are sure of your target and whats behind it, you can say Talk on your cell phone in a movie theater? Chew with your mouth open? Fart in a restaurant? or Eat your meal with the small fork?
You obviously need to learn the rest of the rules.

Did you parents set them? Mine didn't.

Mine did.
Yours should have.
I taught my kids.

Can someone put on a web seminar for those of us who are unsure of the conduct?

Unsure of the conduct?
We all know how to be polite.

Btw, what about home defense rifles and shotguns? Do they get unloaded inside too? Seems counter-intuitive to me.

You got me there.
If I were to keep a home defense shotgun, I would have it loaded.
BUT I wouldn't take it out of it's place and carry it around the house.
Just sayin'.
My dad had a single shot shotgun by the bed and the shells in the nightstand. LOL
I had an uncle that used to say "An unloaded gun is useless". He had a loaded handgun in just about every room of his house. But every single one of his shotguns and rifles were unloaded when he put them away.



All I'm saying here is that we all know how to be polite.
Not being polite is not serving the greater good of the gun community.
It makes us look like narcissistic Neanderthals.

 

[Gluemanz28]

Starting with...?

Read the 501 post and decide for yourself.

 

[stephen87]

I hope someone quotes this so he gets a chance to see it, but I know he won't respond either way.

+1 Hornet
I'm glad that you were taught rules of conduct or in other words Respect.
I'm sorry to say that it appears that there is a lack of that on the thread.

There has been NO lack of respect in this thread, other than people calling this act idiotic. WE had a differing opinion than yours and offered it up. We, being 88GT and myself, immediately become trolls. Several people have said the same thing. Neither of us our trolls, ,we are both actively involved in not only gun rights but getting in touch with people who can actually voice our opinions in the legislative branch of not only Indiana, but the United States. We have met with numerous others from this forum, shared great times, made great friends, and educated people at the same time. Both of us open carry for our own reasons, whether they are the same reason or different reasons, I don't know. If anyone HERE is the troll, it's neither of us.

It has nothing to do with a different opinion than me. It has everything to do with people that just want to argue.
Life is too short for that.

We don't want to argue, we want to put OUR opinion out there and at the same time try to see what reasoning others have for their opinions. Opinions change all the times. They don't do so on their own, they do so based on debate and facts. If you look through my post history, you'll see that I used to CC. After being challenged to OC and see how I like it, I changed my opinion. This is not to say that I never CC, I just opt to OC most of the time. Judging by your posts, you most likely CC, and frown upon those of us who OC. Whatever your reasoning for OC or CC, I don't really care. AS long as you just ****ing carry, I'm on your side. If, and when, you post a thread about being thrown out or had a firearm pointed at you by police for merely HAVING a firearm, I will have an opinion to offer. It will most likely be the same as it is in this thread, unless you've done something to warrant having a firearm pointed at you.

You don't have to read my posts, they'll be here for everyone else to read, it won't hurt my feelings. However, when you're ready to put on your big boy pants and have a debate about one thing or another, 88GT and I will be here. Until then, I hope you never have people offering differing opinions than yours. You'll block them, and INGO will get lonelier and lonelier for you.

 

[MCgrease08]

Carry a handgun so you are able to fight your way to a rifle if needed.

 

[KLB]

I hope someone quotes this so he gets a chance to see it, but I know he won't respond either way.

Originally Posted by Gluemanz28
+1 Hornet
I'm glad that you were taught rules of conduct or in other words Respect.


I'm sorry to say that it appears that there is a lack of that on the thread.

There has been NO lack of respect in this thread, other than people calling this act idiotic. WE had a differing opinion than yours and offered it up. We, being 88GT and myself, immediately become trolls. Several people have said the same thing. Neither of us our trolls, ,we are both actively involved in not only gun rights but getting in touch with people who can actually voice our opinions in the legislative branch of not only Indiana, but the United States. We have met with numerous others from this forum, shared great times, made great friends, and educated people at the same time. Both of us open carry for our own reasons, whether they are the same reason or different reasons, I don't know. If anyone HERE is the troll, it's neither of us.

Originally Posted by Gluemanz28 It has nothing to do with a different opinion than me. It has everything to do with people that just want to argue.

Life is too short for that.

We don't want to argue, we want to put OUR opinion out there and at the same time try to see what reasoning others have for their opinions. Opinions change all the times. They don't do so on their own, they do so based on debate and facts. If you look through my post history, you'll see that I used to CC. After being challenged to OC and see how I like it, I changed my opinion. This is not to say that I never CC, I just opt to OC most of the time. Judging by your posts, you most likely CC, and frown upon those of us who OC. Whatever your reasoning for OC or CC, I don't really care. AS long as you just ****ing carry, I'm on your side. If, and when, you post a thread about being thrown out or had a firearm pointed at you by police for merely HAVING a firearm, I will have an opinion to offer. It will most likely be the same as it is in this thread, unless you've done something to warrant having a firearm pointed at you.

You don't have to read my posts, they'll be here for everyone else to read, it won't hurt my feelings. However, when you're ready to put on your big boy pants and have a debate about one thing or another, 88GT and I will be here. Until then, I hope you never have people offering differing opinions than yours. You'll block them, and INGO will get lonelier and lonelier for you.

Here you go

 

[Birds Away]

The people who vehemently support carry, except when it might hurt someone's feelings must be the same as those who support the "go along to get along" Republicans. Don't rock the boat.

 

[Gluemanz28]

I now know what the issue was. The McDonalds trio should have went to Burger King. Isn't their slogan "Have It Your way"

LEO would have never been called.

 

[Hornett]

The people who vehemently support carry, except when it might hurt someone's feelings must be the same as those who support the "go along to get along" Republicans. Don't rock the boat.

I am as far from those ridiculous RINO's as anyone can get.
I just know we are all representatives of the gun owning community.
Help people to see what a great group we really are.

I want to make a couple of other points clear while I am posting.

The officers were ay out of line. IMO

I do not equate open carry of a handgun with open carry of a loaded long gun.
Quit mixing those up. It muddies the water for an open debate.

 

[stephen87]

You got me there.
If I were to keep a home defense shotgun, I would have it loaded.
BUT I wouldn't take it out of it's place and carry it around the house.
Just sayin'.
My dad had a single shot shotgun by the bed and the shells in the nightstand. LOL
I had an uncle that used to say "An unloaded gun is useless". He had a loaded handgun in just about every room of his house. But every single one of his shotguns and rifles were unloaded when he put them away.



All I'm saying here is that we all know how to be polite.
Not being polite is not serving the greater good of the gun community.
It makes us look like narcissistic Neanderthals.

I had this WHOLE THING typed up and BAM! deleted. SO let's try again.


First of all, your father, your uncle, your LGS, and other people on the interwebz, matter not to me. No offense to your family, as I'm sure they are great people. They have no bearing in my life. My LGS matters not to me other than where to buy. There opinion is there for one reason, in my eyes, to profit. If I go in and say that I want a firearm, and tell them to give me the best, they will offer the highest priced item 9 times out of 10.

There are 4 rules, the end. Google "firearms code of conduct." The first hit is "Mayors against illegal guns." The next one has the four basic rules. Can you recite your "code of conduct for me?" If it has anything about concealing firearms, I don't care about that part. Still throw it in, but just a heads up. You know the rules too, don't sit there and try to belittle me by posting funny stuff. I'm not humored.

Don't tell me that my parents should have. You don't know my parents. I grew up without firearms in my house. My mom suffers from hoplophobia. I bought my first handgun at the age of 23 as a birthday present to myself. I researched and researched and researched why people shouldn't have guns. Found too many reasons for someone to have one.

You're correct, we do know how to be polite. When I go into public armed, I am EXTRA polite. I am a polite person by nature, my mom taught me that one at least. When I strap that firearm on my hip, I am no longer Stephen. I am "That guy with a gun" that people are automatically afraid of because of what I have. I don't go around scowling at people or being a Richard to everyone. I say please, thank you, hold doors, smile at people. You know why? If I change one person's perception of gun owners, I have succeeded. I have never had the police called on me for having a gun, I had one encounter, which was nothing but pleasant. I have never had people run away from me screaming. My gun has never jumped out of it's holster and shot someone just because it was loaded. Politeness goes a long way whether armed or unarmed. Why should my guns being unloaded have ANY bearing my politeness? I admit it does, but my gun being loaded doesn't automatically make me unpolite.

Glad your uncle realizes that guns are loaded, always, too bad he didn't teach you that I can carry more than just a handgun in society. If I want to carry my SBR, I'll do it. My shotgun, I'll do it. My Glock 7 that can pass through metal detectors because it's ceramic, I'll do it.


All I'm saying is, just because YOU live by different rules than I, doesn't mean that I'm an unpolite, narcissistic Neanderthal who doesn't serve the greater good of the gun community. I live by the 4 rules, I don't need to add a million other rules to make me a safe gun owner.

 

[Yup!]

He was very pleasant and even ensured that I provided contact information so he could get back to me.

Please post a link to that thread when you start it.

 

[stephen87]

The people who vehemently support carry, except when it might hurt someone's feelings must be the same as those who support the "go along to get along" Republicans. Don't rock the boat.

Hey, I love that song. Detest those Republicans though. Stand up for what you believe in, even if you have to rock the boat. If you never rock the boat, you'll never get to your destination.

I am as far from those ridiculous RINO's as anyone can get.
I just know we are all representatives of the gun owning community.
Help people to see what a great group we really are.

You're correct, we ARE a great group. However, me carrying a long gun doesn't change what a great group we are. If I meet someone who wants to debate my carrying of a long gun, I'll debate it and hopefully change an opinion. It shouldn't warrant an automatic call for LEOs who draw down on me. Instead, if LEOs are called, they should come up, verify nothing illegal is going on, and walk out. When the police leave me alone after an encounter and the public sees it, is when people will realize that nothing is wrong with it. When the LEO draws down on me, escorts me outside yelling and screaming, belittles me in front of God and country, is when the public sees that a guy with a gun is a bad thing and will continue to call. Ideally, LE should not be called for this act, but it happens, and until they change their attitude, which requires encounters with law abiding citizens with guns, public will never change their attitude.

Did you see what that last bit required? A law abiding citizen, in public, with a gun. If you're afraid to take your gun into public, for fear of shame or whatever, don't judge me based on my ability and willingness to do so. You will never change the public opinion. I will.

 

[SteveM4A1]

You're correct, we ARE a great group. However, me carrying a long gun doesn't change what a great group we are. If I meet someone who wants to debate my carrying of a long gun, I'll debate it and hopefully change an opinion. It shouldn't warrant an automatic call for LEOs who draw down on me. Instead, if LEOs are called, they should come up, verify nothing illegal is going on, and walk out. When the police leave me alone after an encounter and the public sees it, is when people will realize that nothing is wrong with it. When the LEO draws down on me, escorts me outside yelling and screaming, belittles me in front of God and country, is when the public sees that a guy with a gun is a bad thing and will continue to call.

Very good point.

 

[Hornett]

I had this WHOLE THING typed up and BAM! deleted. SO let's try again.

I hate when that happens.

There are 4 rules, the end.

There are a LOT more than 4 rules.
You are intentionally missing the point.

If it has anything about concealing firearms, I don't care about that part.

Everybody wants to turn this into an OC vs CC argument.
I don't see it like that. I see it as a long gun carry in restaurant debate.

don't sit there and try to belittle me by posting funny stuff. I'm not humored.

No belittling was intended.
Sorry about that.

When I go into public armed, I am EXTRA polite.

I believe you.

Why should my guns being unloaded have ANY bearing my politeness?

I don't want you to carry an unloaded gun.
That would be useless.

Glad your uncle realizes that guns are loaded, always, too bad he didn't teach you that I can carry more than just a handgun in society. If I want to carry my SBR, I'll do it. My shotgun, I'll do it.

I think that this is the ONLY thing we actually disagree on.
I don't think it's polite and you think it's OK.
I made my case and you are not swayed.
I don't feel any disrespect and wish I could have done better.

My Glock 7 that can pass through metal detectors because it's ceramic, I'll do it.

Those cost more than I make in a month. I wish I could afford one.

I am sorry that you thought I called you a narcissistic Neanderthal.
What I said was "It makes us LOOK LIKE narcissistic Neanderthals.
I never meant to impugn your character.

I live by the 4 rules, I don't need to add a million other rules to make me a safe gun owner.

The million other rules have nothing to do with gun safety.
They are rules for a polite society.
We can't get away from them.
To quote from Pirates of the Caribbean "They are more like guidelines anyway"


One other thing.
I also don't think the LEO's should have ever been called.
That was the sheeple in action and it makes me sad.

 

[stephen87]

Seriously, I would like to know the code of conduct that you were taught. I was taught four rules when it comes to firearms. I was never handed a "code of conduct" course. I would like to see if I agree with any of them. It seems the only thing we are disagreeing upon is the carry of long guns. I see no issue with it. I will not, however, carry a long gun into public, if I have one. This is for one reason: practicality. I carry a handgun, so what's the point of carrying an AR or a shotgun?

The carrier's reasoning from this thread? Didn't have a handgun. If that were my case, I'd do what I have to do. Since it isn't, I won't.

 

[Hornett]

Well the whole problem started then because Indiana doesn't have constitutional carry... yet.
We will get there.

Have you ever been hunting?
Or been to a skeet range?
Or a hunting lodge?

I may be totally off base here, but with your non gun upbringing, I a thinking you missed out on the hunting culture that I learned as a boy.
When I was a boy, (man that makes me feel old) there were 10 rules of gun safety.
One of which was "Never cross a fence without unloading your gun."

 

[Hornett]

There are so many different lists now.
Here is the one I was taught

1. Treat every firearm with the same respect due a loaded firearm.
2. Control the direction of your firearm's muzzle.
3. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
4. Be sure the barrel and action are clear of obstructions.
5. Unload firearms when not in use.
6. Never point a firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot.
7. Never climb a fence or tree, or jump a ditch or log, with a loaded firearm.
8. Never shoot a bullet at a flat, hard surface or water.
9. Store firearms and ammunition separately.
10. Avoid alcoholic beverages before or while shooting.

 

[stephen87]

You're correct. I live in a city, did not hunt, would have loved to, but I never did.

You think constitutional carry will fix the people panicking that someone has a gun? So there have been 0 LEO encounters in constitutional carry states?

Constitutional carry doesn't change public perception. Again, law abiding citizens, legally carrying firearms, changes public perception.

 

[stephen87]

There are so many different lists now.
Here is the one I was taught

1. Treat every firearm with the same respect due a loaded firearm.
2. Control the direction of your firearm's muzzle.
3. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
4. Be sure the barrel and action are clear of obstructions.
5. Unload firearms when not in use.
6. Never point a firearm at anything you do not intend to shoot.
7. Never climb a fence or tree, or jump a ditch or log, with a loaded firearm.
8. Never shoot a bullet at a flat, hard surface or water.
9. Store firearms and ammunition separately.
10. Avoid alcoholic beverages before or while shooting.

Big difference between never cross a fence and never jump a fence.

#5 I would agree with, however, if I'm carrying a long gun or a handgun, it's in use as a self defense tool.

 

[stephen87]

I would love to hear your ideas on how to change public perception towards firearms.