The title of this thread, as it stands now, is "OC Black Friday Meet and Lunch 11/26/10 Discussion Thread"
I don't see anything that says only pro-OC comments allowed. The last couple years I have been active in this forum, all I hear from the pro-OC folks is how OC isn't about shock value. That OC isn't about getting a reaction from people. I hear claims that those who OC do so for tactical reasons, that questioning can result in education...but that isn't the primary purpose.
There have been a few posters who have posted about how they changed their habits for the sole purpose to get a reaction. One claimed that they were craving some police interaction. On two cases, the more well known OCers here came and said that OC shouldn't be about getting involved with cops, or trying to get reactions out of people.
Now we have a ton of pro-OCers, purposely OCing in downtown Indy, and why: They want to use shock value by means of OCing firearms to get reactions out of people. The folks involved in this, usual OCers or CCers, are no different than the MSM shock value news stories. After reading up to this point, the goal of this event is education. What does flashing your bling-bling firearms have to do with education? In my opinion, nothing. Education could easily be done by offering informational handouts.
Folks here should take Joe Williams comments very seriously:
I think Joe really went out on a limb here. Why? Because all of my friends are pro-gun, yet out of about 15-20 people, I know of only one who OCs and is extremely pro-gun. Most of them would likely not support OC, and likely could careless if OCing was prohibited, so long as they would have the option of CCing. To compare these folks the Brady Bunch, who don't want citizens to own guns is laughable.
With that being said, I think it shows that the vast majority of pro-gun folks don't care to have American towns and cities mirror Mogadishu when it comes to folks walking around with AKs and handguns. Despite the desires of some here for such a society in the US, most just don't want it, and if it starts happening, will likely support local, state, and federal laws controlling it (ie: Urban vs. rural, while engaged in a shooting sport, etc type exemptions).
Folks want to think that the state law that prevents locals from enacting ordinances will prevent cities like Indy from enacting OC bans. I wouldn't be so sure. The law of the land is Heller, and the countries highest court ruled:
" Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152–153; Abbott333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489–490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students’ Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment , nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms."
All it takes is a few municipalities to fight the state when it comes to how people can carry, why, etc.. Heller really just gave us the right to have common firearms in our homes. As the above points out, past courts have upheld bans on even concealed carry.
Given what has happened in this country with concealed carry, I highly doubt there will be any change in that. However, I strongly feel that Indiana citizens should be damn happy with the system we have: Shall issue, just have to pass a background check and pay a fee. It is my personal opinion that given what was ruled in Heller, the high court would uphold: Bans on OCing in public, requirements for reasonable testing, licensing that has reasonable fees attached, and registration that has reasonable fees attached.
I have no problem with folks wanting to go out on a what would be a busy day, and share literature about the benefits of firearms ownership. However, the OCing of SKS rifles, AKs, ARs, and many handguns, especially those who will just have to tactical it all up (a rifle with two or three handguns on their waistband) will only paint the group has nuts. Any attempt to educate the person, or even provide some basic information on firearm ownership, will be lost in translation. If you think some non-gun owner soccer mom from Avon, Fishers, Greenwood, etc., who likely is OK with gun ownership, will magically want millions of people milling out in cities and towns with ARs, AKs, etc., you are wrong. And if someone says that isn't the point, I understand that, but that is the point these folks are going to think your trying to make: That society needs to be filled with people walking around with AKs, ARs, G3s, etc.. At this time, the vast majority of people in the US are not ready for that kind of society. If people really wanted that kind of society, they would move to Israel or Mogadishu.
Lastly, I haven't seen anyone make any comment about wanting to get arrested. However, it isn't going to look good to the tons of citizens folks are trying to educate when the cops show up and folks don't want to just hand over an ID, etc.. I feel the OCing of battle rifles, and even hunting rifles in an urban setting, already paints the group in a certain way. Having a pissing match with power hungry cops will, in my opinion, only paint the group as even more "wacko."
Again, I don't see anything wrong with comments against, or suggestions to do things different, being posted in this thread. This is about an event which can have an impact on all gun owners. So long the comments aren't nasty, why do they have to be 100% for this event as is?
JK.
