OC Black Friday Meet and Lunch 11/26/10 Discussion Thread

[sj kahr k40]

If Lars is planning something with Ed Coleman then count me in, let's stop the fighting and respect that we have the same goals, just different ideas on how to get there.

 

[IndyMonkey]

You're looking for blood where there is none.

 

[esrice]

What he is reading seems pretty clear. Now, if Mr Coleman lied, that's another matter, one ya'll might want to ask him to clear up.

He's speaking in general terms about his conversation with Lars. I don't know if Lars is going to put something together, but I can tell you that INGO, the organization, is not planning any such event. I have no reason to be dishonest about this.

Just because Lars is a Mod doesn't mean he can't organize events. (and I'm not saying he is, because he hasn't mentioned anything to me about one) I organized NFA Day, and it wasn't an "INGO Event" in the idea that we were "sponsored" by INGO the organization. It was an event for INGOers, by INGOers, like everything else around here.

 

[Lars]

Since you refuse to have a civil discussion on Facebook where you don't have the power of the ban hammer, I will take my chances here.

Has nothing to do with the ban hammer. I am not using Facebook for that kind of discussion. Period.

This is the difference between you and I. You rely on Politicians to do your bidding. You want government to take care of these matters. What you fail to realize is that PEOPLE take care of these matters. How can you convince a politician to take your side when 99% of the rest of his constituents either oppose you or are completely clueless and don't care? You have to win the people over. Educate them. Show them the truth the media and your beloved politicians will not.

By Voting for politicians with a track record of supporting views similar to mine I don't need to convince them to take my side, they are already on it.

Or, do you really realize this since the INGO Staff is working with Ed Coleman to hold a separate rally while condemning this event? I mean, you can't deny it if your beloved Libertarian friend is saying so on Facebook that you guys are working together on your own rally.

Wait? What the heck are you talking about here? *boggle*

But, wait, I thought INGO was apolitical? I thought INGO had no interest in education? I thought INGO was an organization with the SOLE intent to be a gathering place? It seems it's not so.

*boggle* I have no idea what you're talking about.

So why, then, are you condemning us instead of helping us? It makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever.

I simply disagree with your methods. I personally believe that because something is legal. And because something can be done. Doesn't mean it will have the desired result.

Example. Schools that have zero gun tolerance rules.
Intent: keep guns out of our schools, and provide a harsh enough punishment to deter people from violating the rules. Finally absolve school administrators from having to make judgment calls.
Result: 4th grader brings his lego police man to school and gets expelled because that lego mini-fig has a tiny plastic handgun.

Now we can argue the value of zero tolerance policies until we're blue in the face, but that's not the point here. The point is, we intended to keep guns out of students hands in schools to prevent/reduce violence. The result as unintended as it may have been, was we expelled a fourth grader for being proud of his policeman father and bringing a show and tell example in to school.


If your INTENT for the march is to change the behaviour of IMPD in regards to illegally detaining law abiding citizens.

Understand that the potential exists that your result will instead be: The 99% of people who disagree with you, will all lean on their city county councilors, or state house and congress to pass legislation making your current legal behavior illegal.

Take this post as you will, but I'm just trying to understand something I thought I was "Crystal" on.

Can't help you since I'm not sure what you're trying to understand.

 

[esrice]

Politicians don't publicly say such things if there isn't some truth to it.

Buwahahahahaha

Can I quote you on that? Someone needs to make that their signature.

 

[Lars]

Yup, you got me. I mentioned to Ed, if he was interested in putting something together I would be happy to help him with it.

There's the giant conspiracy.

 

[SavageEagle]

Buwahahahahaha

Can I quote you on that? Someone needs to make that their signature.

I'm done with this for tonight, but I feel I should correct you on this. Politicians don't say they're planning a rally with someone without there being some truth to it. Notice I said SOME. As with the previous post. I also said such things. I was being specific.

 

[Lars]

Yup, you got me. I mentioned to Ed, if he was interested in putting something together I would be happy to help him with it.

There's the giant conspiracy.

That's the ENTIRE discussion that's taken place on that regard as well. Nothing beyond exactly ^^^

 

[esrice]

That's the ENTIRE discussion that's taken place on that regard as well. Nothing beyond exactly ^^^

That should help you sleep better tonight Ryan. INGO isn't trying to sabotage this event. I promise.

 

[bwframe]

Really? I think the first two went fine.

Other than nobody got shot or arrested, how would you know that?
How many gun owners/INGOers/NRA/any other gun group members did you educate into us?

There's only ONE variable here that makes this one different and it's not Black Friday. It's the early media attention. It has YOU scared. We're not ready for this? YOU'RE not ready for this.

You are absolutely right! I'm terrified that you or yours will set us back.

In my organized events, we ALWAYS had a media spokesman or TWO in the group. I also encouraged this in the beginning of this one.

Why do I not know these people? Why are their names not in the news? Please pass along their INGO handles so I may check their activity, views and mannerism. I may not be a PR person, but I know what they look like.

I don't mean for this to be a personal attack, but more of a "returning the favor" post for you. You may not have been meaning to, but your post was insulting and I did take it very personal.

The return of the favor is cool with me sir. My apologies, if I phrased something in a personal manner. I do not apologize for pointing out you personally though. You have taken a leadership role and thus are subject to scrutiny for your actions in relation to that.

 

[Roadie]

That's the ENTIRE discussion that's taken place on that regard as well. Nothing beyond exactly ^^^

Surely you can see how this quote from Ed:

I have talked to moderators of the INGunOwners forum. I was asked to help put together an effective rally to help our cause. Not this in your face stuff these guys are planning.

..would lead someone to believe that, oh, INGO is planning a rally with Ed?

 

[VUPDblue]

SavageEagle, you are missing some big elephants in the room, you too JoeWilliams. If INGO wanted to "sabotage" this event, we would not have contacted the media and then refused to comment to them Also, if INGO were really so adamantly against this project, and wanted to go out of our way to prove that point, we would have just trashed the threads about it in the first place.

 

[Lars]

Surely you can see how this quote from Ed:

..would lead someone to believe that, oh, INGO is planning a rally with Ed?

Yup. I somehow missed that part of his quote the first time around.
Also FWIW, Pami & Lars are Mods. We are Libertarians. We know Ed. There really isn't a big conspiracy.

 

[VUPDblue]

Further more, in regards to Ed Coleman's statement about helping the INGO MODs organize a rally/event/whatever, I will tell you that the day INGO supports or endorses or organizes ANY type of political rally will be the day that I resign as a MOD and give away all my guns.

 

[lawrra]

Further more, in regards to Ed Coleman's statement about helping the INGO MODs organize a rally/event/whatever, I will tell you that the day INGO supports or endorses or organizes ANY type of political rally will be the day that I resign as a MOD and give away all my guns.

First dibs

 

[Roadie]

First dibs

Second!

 

[Roadie]

Further more, in regards to Ed Coleman's statement about helping the INGO MODs organize a rally/event/whatever, I will tell you that the day INGO supports or endorses or organizes ANY type of political rally will be the day that I resign as a MOD and give away all my guns.

I can understand your position on a controversial event such as the one being discussed here, but "ANY"? Really?

If the SHTF and they come for our guns, you would want INGO to stay neutral??

 

[Joe Williams]

I can understand your position on a controversial event such as the one being discussed here, but "ANY"? Really?

If the SHTF and they come for our guns, you would want INGO to stay neutral??

If that happens, INGO and demonstrations will be irrelevant.

 

[bwframe]

INGO isn't trying to sabotage this event. I promise.

But hey SE, what provisions have you and yours made if someone tries? The mods might be lying. Or, it's quite obvious, that there is more than one of us opposed to you and yours representing the thousands of us. Let me ask you, SE and your organizers, WTF is your plan for problems???

What happens if you run into antis?
What happens if Suzie Sockermom, racing for the great deals, hoses two or three of you down with pepper spray? What happens if officer friendly or Paul Blart does the same?

Then comes the scariest question of all...
...What happens if there is a real active shooter situation? What are your guys gonna do?

 

[MACHINEGUN]

Second!

If these two guys pass.. I have thirds!