IN State Super of Ed

[Coach]

Teaching isn't a skill. It's a desire. Anybody can teach. They just have to want to. I love my kids and know what's best for them. That's all the qualification that is necessary.

You didn't think it was four years of college and a license from the state, did you?

Are you anti-college because you flunked out or could not be admitted or is it something else?

 

[Coach]

Desire to be employed is not the same as desire to teach. Not stand up in front of classroom teach. Teach. Instill the desire to learn. Create the atmosphere of discovery.

What skills? What do you have that I don't have? What did you get from your experience that I don't/can't have?

Desire will spur the other things. But without the desire, there is nothing.

Don't know you or what skills you have or don't have. You claim to have desire and that is all you need. I just disagree. There is more to teaching than desire. Desire is not a bad thing, but it is not enough.

I may not have a single skill that you don't have. I have not said I am infinitely qualified to teach.

 

[jsharmon7]

Teaching isn't a skill. It's a desire. Anybody can teach. They just have to want to. I love my kids and know what's best for them. That's all the qualification that is necessary.

You didn't think it was four years of college and a license from the state, did you?

I think this is the key. You probably do an excellent job with your children because you love them and know what's best for them. Could you say the same for 20+ students with varying levels of support from their own families, varying levels of mental development, and coming from varying cultures? A different 20+ students every year? That's what we expect from school teachers. We give them a large group of students, some of whom are just learning English or who have no structure or discipline at home, and require them to educate those students to a specific standard. That's not an easy job.

Teachers have my respect, I know I couldn't do their job and stay sane. Especially with so many parents refusing to take an active interest in their child's education and instead treating school like free daycare. As far as teachers go, I'm glad that there is oversight. I think that requiring them to have attended college-level courses on things like psychology, human development, theory, diversity, etc. makes them better teachers. I also think requiring a license from the state to prove they aren't some dork off the street is also a good idea. Is it necessary? Obviously it isn't because prior to the last century civilization got by just fine without teachers who had that kind of training and credentials. I do think it helps provide some consistency though, and that I support. There will always be bad teachers and education and licensing won't weed that out. It will help the ones who are truly meant to teach though.

 

[Mad Macs]

Teaching isn't a skill. It's a desire. Anybody can teach. They just have to want to. I love my kids and know what's best for them. That's all the qualification that is necessary.

Okay, this is pretty ignorant and insulting to those who teach. I can't just be a doctor "because I want to". I can't just be a lawyer "because I want to". I have to prepare and educate myself. I don't know what it is about education that makes everybody think they can just walk into a classroom and "just do it."

You homeschool, I get it. How many kids do you have? Do you make sure they eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner? Do you work with them to make sure they do their homework? Do take responsibility for their academic performance and make sure they are doing their best?

Okay, now take 30-35 kids, don't give them breakfast (or give them cereal and milk which is awful for kids), make sure their lunch is terrible. Let them stay up late watching tv. Don't have parents who help them with homework, or study. Or better yet, not even speak English! Hell, don't even let them have parents at home and who work second shift.

Now you're telling me there's NO way the 4 years of college, or a Master's or a PhD will help that teacher excel in that environment? Teachers learn tools to help when the "do it this way" doesn't work. My wife is a special education teacher and at least once a week she bounces ideas off of me to help a student out who isn't getting something, or being a behavior issue. My wife attends several trainings each year on multi-cultural trends and may at any point in time have several children in her classroom from another country who don't "get" American culture so she has to know what to do with them too.

If you truly feel "anybody can do this" in regards to teaching then I'm done talking with you. I have no desire to argue with somebody who thinks they can simply walk into a professional-level career and just get things done with no formal training whatsoever.

 

[steveh_131]

So no standards for anyone but those who work for the evil gov't. Check.

Exactly. We are supposed to keep the government under control, not the other way around. This is America, remember?

 

[steveh_131]

Okay, this is pretty ignorant and insulting to those who teach. I can't just be a doctor "because I want to". I can't just be a lawyer "because I want to". I have to prepare and educate myself. I don't know what it is about education that makes everybody think they can just walk into a classroom and "just do it."

You seemed to ignore the rest of her post.

I love my kids and know what's best for them. That's all the qualification that is necessary

You're right, no human being can love all 35 of the strangers in their classroom, and certainly won't know what's best for them. So we substitute college training for actual parenting. That might be good enough for you, but some of us would rather handle the parenting ourselves.

All they ask is that you stay out of it, because it is frankly none of your business.

 

[BravoMike]

Exactly. We are supposed to keep the government under control, not the other way around. This is America, remember?

I should have written what I said in purple.

I'm not quite understanding what you are saying. Are you saying that NCLBH is a good thing because it places standards on schools? This wouldn't be citizens keeping the gov't under control, it would be the gov't governing the gov't. Not sure I follow.

I don't have a problems with teachers having performance reviews like you would with any other profession, but the notion that NCLBH will help and better increase our education system is completely false.

 

[steveh_131]

I should have written what I said in purple.

I'm not quite understanding what you are saying. Are you saying that NCLBH is a good thing because it places standards on schools? This wouldn't be citizens keeping the gov't under control, it would be the gov't governing the gov't. Not sure I follow.

I don't have a problems with teachers having performance reviews like you would with any other profession, but the notion that NCLBH will help and better increase our education system is completely false.

I know that you meant it someone sarcastically, but I agreed with it.

I'm no fan of NCLBH, but I think at local levels it is certainly acceptable for the populace to enact performance standards for the teachers they are employing to raise their children.

And I think if people make the choice to raise their own children at home that it is no one's business but their own.

So, yes...performance standards for teachers (at the local level) and zero performance standards for home-school parents. They can assess themselves.

 

[jsharmon7]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but what's the alternative to public schools? I've seen home schooling and private schools mentioned. What if the child's parents has neither the means nor the desire to utilize these options? Would school still be mandatory? If not, what becomes of the kids whose parents don't educate them? I understand the libertarian "screw 'em" theory, but do we punish kids whose parents don't care? I'm not taking a position one way or the other here, just curious as to what folks think should be done in these situations. I can assure you that our teachers don't have classrooms filled with the children of INGO parents who care about their children and desire to raise them right.

Also, for steveh, do you think homeschooled children should be tested in any way? If I choose to homeschool my kids should it be okay to intellectually cripple them if I don't feel like teaching them or simply don't know what I'm doing?

 

[steveh_131]

Maybe I missed it in this thread, but what's the alternative to public schools? I've seen home schooling and private schools mentioned. What if the child's parents has neither the means nor the desire to utilize these options? Would school still be mandatory? If not, what becomes of the kids whose parents don't educate them? I understand the libertarian "screw 'em" theory, but do we punish kids whose parents don't care? I'm not taking a position one way or the other here, just curious as to what folks think should be done in these situations. I can assure you that our teachers don't have classrooms filled with the children of INGO parents who care about their children and desire to raise them right.

I've bolded the interesting part. Do you feel that we are personally punishing other peoples' kids by not taking money (by force) from others to provide things for them that are important?

I don't. I do think that a wonderful way to make up for this would be by making voluntary charitable contributions toward programs that care for these neglected children.

The same arguments for and against any entitlement programs apply equally to public schooling.

Also, for steveh, do you think homeschooled children should be tested in any way? If I choose to homeschool my kids should it be okay to intellectually cripple them if I don't feel like teaching them or simply don't know what I'm doing?

No, it's not okay at all. Your kids are your responsibility and you should do a darn good job of taking care of them. There's a lot of bad parenting going on with or without public schooling, but I don't think it's the government's role or responsibility to correct it.

 

[glockednlocked]

I love it those who suckle the government teat do not like the idea of the milk drying up. Listen teacher you teach my kids= I pay you. You spend more time playing union thug worried about your benis than teaching = get a new job!
Tough love for the real world home school kids taught by "untrained rubes" can smoke your students(inmates) in almost any metric of testing known to man. Public schools are a sucking drain. vouchers allow those of less means to still educate their kids to the level required in a modern world, public school union shills want to rob kids of that to maintain the status quo of high pay low effort and no acountability. Harrasing homeschoolers and private schools will blow up in Ritz's face when it exposes kids can learn and excell for much less money than public schools now spend. And even the "poorly educated religious rubes" can do a better job than unionized teachers.

 

[Birds Away]

I love it those who suckle the government teat do not like the idea of the milk drying up. Listen teacher you teach my kids= I pay you. You spend more time playing union thug worried about your benis than teaching = get a new job!
Tough love for the real world home school kids taught by "untrained rubes" can smoke your students(inmates) in almost any metric of testing known to man. Public schools are a sucking drain. vouchers allow those of less means to still educate their kids to the level required in a modern world, public school union shills want to rob kids of that to maintain the status quo of high pay low effort and no acountability. Harrasing homeschoolers and private schools will blow up in Ritz's face when it exposes kids can learn and excell for much less money than public schools now spend. And even the "poorly educated religious rubes" can do a better job than unionized teachers.

That message will never get out. You forget which side the media is on.

 

[BravoMike]

I love it those who suckle the government teat do not like the idea of the milk drying up. Listen teacher you teach my kids= I pay you. You spend more time playing union thug worried about your benis than teaching = get a new job!
Tough love for the real world home school kids taught by "untrained rubes" can smoke your students(inmates) in almost any metric of testing known to man. Public schools are a sucking drain. vouchers allow those of less means to still educate their kids to the level required in a modern world, public school union shills want to rob kids of that to maintain the status quo of high pay low effort and no acountability. Harrasing homeschoolers and private schools will blow up in Ritz's face when it exposes kids can learn and excell for much less money than public schools now spend. And even the "poorly educated religious rubes" can do a better job than unionized teachers.

WTF, you don't have a clue what you are talking about do you?

Do you even know any teachers on a personal level? Yeah they are rich and live in big houses don't they? Low effort? That is completely insulting to many great teachers out there. I guess you, and some others here are a perfect example of someone who is insatiable.

 

[steveh_131]

WTF, you don't have a clue what you are talking about do you?

Do you even know any teachers on a personal level? Yeah they are rich and live in big houses don't they? Low effort? That is completely insulting to many great teachers out there. I guess you, and some others here are a perfect example of someone who is insatiable.

If only there existed an economic system where people are rewarded, monetarily, for being good at what they do and working hard at it.

 

[BravoMike]

If only there existed an economic system where people are rewarded, monetarily, for being good at what they do and working hard at it.

So you would be ok with increasing taxes to pay more for teachers if they where not unionized and could "prove" they where better teachers? I highly dought it.

You also agree with this person that the majority of public school teachers are lazy, worthless peices of crap? Sure there may be those that exist, but by and large they are not.

Do you know any teachers on a personal level? If not then STFU.

 

[Birds Away]

So you would be ok with increasing taxes to pay more for teachers if they where not unionized and could "prove" they where better teachers? I highly dought it.

You also agree with this person that the majority of public school teachers are lazy, worthless peices of crap? Sure there may be those that exist, but by and large they are not.

Do you know any teachers on a personal level? If not then STFU.

Do you?

 

[BravoMike]

Do you?

Yes, I know many. You?

 

[steveh_131]

So you would be ok with increasing taxes to pay more for teachers if they where not unionized and could "prove" they where better teachers? I highly dought it.

No. The economic system I was referring to was capitalism. No taxes involved.

You also agree with this person that the majority of public school teachers are lazy, worthless peices of crap? Sure there may be those that exist, but by and large they are not.

No, I didn't say that. I don't know how many are lazy and worthless. I've known many who are and many who aren't. I would, however, prefer a system that utilizes the free market to weed out the crappy ones and reward the good ones.

Do you know any teachers on a personal level? If
not then STFU.

I do, but I'm not sure why that matters.

 

[Birds Away]

Yes, I know many. You?

I do know a couple. They seem to be hard working, well meaning folks. They just have a completely different belief system than I do and don't give a second thought to [STRIKE]indoctrinating[/STRIKE] er, enlightening their pupils as to the right way to think. In fact, they seem to have a passion for it.

 

[BravoMike]

No. The economic system I was referring to was capitalism. No taxes involved.



No, I didn't say that. I don't know how many are lazy and worthless. I've known many who are and many who aren't. I would, however, prefer a system that utilizes the free market to weed out the crappy ones and reward the good ones.



I do, but I'm not sure why that matters.

I know teachers from private and public schools and each is not without their problems. To come out and insult teachers in the manner that glockednloaded did is completely off base with my experience with teachers. When I went to school I went to both private a public schools. One was even a DOD school when we where living in Germany. I did get a good education and was fortunate enough to go to good schools. My wife has taught at both public and private schools so I do have a perspective on both. If you want to make an argument about privatizing schools, that is fine. However, don't think it will "fix" all the problems and there will always be those that are insatiable.

To support the notion that public school teachers are lazy and highly paid is just complete crap, IMO.