Health Question

[Jaybird1980]

The point is, we are made to eat it.

Woah, Hold on a min.

Nobody is advocating a "meat only" diet YET.

I'm here now, so no longer the case.

 

[Jaybird1980]

And what is this can't produce meat if the "lights go out" stuff.

Meat was not eaten before the invention of electricity?
Hell I have meat walk through my yard all day long.

You can eat all the leaves and grass you want, if you're still shoveling processed foods and sugars in your pie hole you don't know anything about healthy diets.

Processed food/sugars and Gluttony is the biggest factor food wise IMO.

 

[cg21]

Violence towards plants!

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I mean, these plants are just minding their own business, until a human comes and rips them from the earth, or cuts their heads off!

I was more thinking about what do these people think happens to a sounder of wild hogs when they wander into that vegan field…..? And what do vegans think “pesticides” do

 

[bobzilla]

Great point, brother! That's something that turnede off to a lot of meat products, was seeing how inefficient they are to produce (and unnatural--have you ever seen a cow eat corn or soybeans in nature? Nope, because corn was on a different continent and soybeans have to be cooked first). So why do we feed tons (literally, TONS) of food to animals who in turn poop most of it out and turn the rest into inefficient protein and cholesterol, when we could be eating it ourselves and cut out the unhealthy middleman? Plus, saves us us a ton of money at the grocery store and the hospital (even saves us the ride to the hospital, because we never need to go! )

Yeah no. I raised hogs in open pens. You have absolutely no idea what the **** you’re talking about. I’m out.

 

[Jaybird1980]

Great point, brother! That's something that turnede off to a lot of meat products, was seeing how inefficient they are to produce (and unnatural--have you ever seen a cow eat corn or soybeans in nature? Nope, because corn was on a different continent and soybeans have to be cooked first). So why do we feed tons (literally, TONS) of food to animals who in turn poop most of it out and turn the rest into inefficient protein and cholesterol, when we could be eating it ourselves and cut out the unhealthy middleman? Plus, saves us us a ton of money at the grocery store and the hospital (even saves us the ride to the hospital, because we never need to go! )

That reason is to produce the type of meat we want. Grain feeding is not wasting, it is changing the meat.
It is literally the difference between grass fed and grain fed. Some people like one, some people like the other.

Eating meat is way down the list of unhealthy foods at the grocery store.

 

[bobzilla]

Also I’m an only child. I’m not your ****ing “brother”. So please stop the shtick.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I still can't figure out why I'm wanting to live longer if I can't eat the Glorious BBQ or grill me up a ribeye.

Meat over fire is where it's at.
The only reason the caveman ate leaves and berries was to hold him over until he could get his spear sharpened.

 

[bobzilla]

I still can't figure out why I'm wanting to live longer if I can't eat the Glorious BBQ or grill me up a ribeye.

Meat over fire is where it's at.
The only reason the caveman ate leaves and berries was to hold him over until he could get his spear sharpened.

Quality>quantity.

 

[pablanu3]

They're predators. With forward facing eyes...

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Vs. prey...

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Very nice! I stand fully corrected. I was thinking more like the dinosaurs as well, but I guess we don't have a live one to see for sure. Their eyes might have been just like this eagle here. (I'm no biologist, but I love learning about the natural world, so I appreciate it)

 

[pablanu3]

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned (at least I didn’t see it ) is no one has mentioned getting processed sugars out of your diet. Do that and come back in a month or two and tell me how you feel.

I mentioned it with a bunch of other stuff, but you're right that it's a big one, anywhere Coca Cola has been. Heck, even in a tiny village out in the middle of the Yucatan, the only electricity was for a fridge in a small shop smaller than a bedroom. Know what they had in it? Coke products...people are dying young from the 'betes in Mexico and the developing world at large because they have more Coke than fresh water, and it's cheaper. Not to mention the copious amounts of lard they put in their cooking and baking...

 

[pablanu3]

Violence towards plants!

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I mean, these plants are just minding their own business, until a human comes and rips them from the earth, or cuts their heads off!

My mouth is watering at such violence...

 

[pablanu3]

Sorry to point fingers, but you are not the first brand newby to come along and right off the batt promote your "better" diet.

Why are you doing this on a gun forum? Why isn't the majority of your posts related to firearms, the 2A, self defense, etc?

It's one thing to establish yourself as a contributing member, then express your opinion, where it will be recognised as such. Another to come in a lead a conversation that makes us rightfully question your motives.


.

I appreciate you explaining your scepticism. To be honest, I had no clue this simple poll would blow up as it did. I'm as surprised as you. As for my motives in starting off with this well, that's stated in my introduction in the intro thread.

 

[pablanu3]

I we weren’t meant to eat it, wouldn’t it generally make us sick? Like deer can eat acorns but they are poisonous to humans? People can eat chocolate but dogs can die from just a little bit?

I know I mentioned this already, but of course we're made to be able to eat it, but the little I know of omnivores, and particularly primate omnivores, is that eating meat is for survival. Inuits used to catch a seal, cut it open, and gorge themselves on the raw intestines before cooking the muscle portion. Why? Because that's the only way you'll get the vitamins you need when there is nothing green in the winter. We CAN do it, but it's not an ideal diet. What affects our consumption of meat is affected most by our culture. Some ancient groups traditionally don't eat meat ever (certains groups in India, for example), while others eat exclusively meat and raw, warm blood mixed with milk (the Masai). But I'm not advocating for any cultural norm over another, but simply asking what is actually good for us to be eating, and how we should go about it. I'm not to keen on engorging myself on animal blood or raw intestines to get what I need when I can just grow my own vegetables that have more than enough. But again, this is just my two cents, and my experience.

 

[bwframe]

 

[MRockwell]

Nope, because corn was on a different continent and soybeans have to be cooked first

Soybeans are native to Asia, that's a whole other continent. Corn originated in the Americas, Mexico, which geographically is North America.
The raw soybean seed itself is not highly digestible in swine, and can cause ammonia toxicity in bovine. One reason they are not used for feedstuffs. Soybeans were first used as a forage crop, but that changed when processing the seed into SBM was found as a digestible feedstuff that was a better use than forage. SBM is a low-cost, high protein feedstuff that has higher amino acid digestibility and metabolizable energy compared to other protein ingredients.

It's been a few years since I've sat in a forage management class, or animal nutrition class...I would have to dig out my old notes and my nutrition textbook to jog my memory on all the benefits of corn and soybeans as feedstuffs for livestock.

and unnatural--have you ever seen a cow eat corn or soybeans in nature?

I have seen ruminant animals eat both corn and soybeans in nature. Deer ( a ruminant like a cow), as well as groundhogs ,love young tender soybeans. And I have seen cows, if they get loose from fenced pasture, go to town on both. But cows are domesticated livestock, I'm not familiar with cows in the wild.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I just don’t buy that meat is a death sentence like so many people claim.

Not a death sentence, just unnecessary and not a normal or healthy part of a primate diet.

Say what? You do know that most primates are omnivores right? That is they eat both plants and meat. Heck there is even one group this is entirely carnivorous, that being the Tarsius. Along with several others who consume pretty large quantities such as chimps and baboons. Here is a chimp enjoying a nice afternoon snack of monkey.

 

[shibumiseeker]

If I’m hungry enough, anything that doesn’t run away fast enough could be food.

 

[bwframe]

If I’m hungry enough, anything that doesn’t run away fast enough could be food.

Venison heart and liver can keep one well fed for days, while the meat ages.


.

 

[chipbennett]

It's not so much the ingestion of cholesterol, it's what goes on is your liver that makes cholesterol and regulates it.

....and I've never heard of plants that significantly adversely affect cholesterol...other than sugar, and that can be a real problem for some people, causing the liver to make more LDL and less HDL and thus creating more of what ends up in the arteries. This is a super-simple and short response to a quite complex issue.

Serum cholesterol has been speciously vilified. Except for some rare cases (e.g. certain genetic conditions), serum cholesterol, in a vacuum, is almost entirely irrelevant to any disorder. LDL isn't "bad" cholesterol; rather, it is essential to health.

There is value in comparing the ratio of HDL and triglycerides; otherwise, there is not much to be gleaned directly from serum cholesterol.

 

[chipbennett]

Self-sufficiency and personal independence is actually how I started to think differently about my health and the things I depend on (like you referenced about being chained to doctors and pharmacies). I realized that raising animals and slaughtering them as I did was inefficient, since I couldn't produce my own fodder if the lights went out and I couldn't get my Rural King feed. Then that led me to see whether we could survive just growing food alone, which we could definitely pull off in our less than an acre. The more I researched it (even discussing with nutritionists), I found that the meat and dairy I had been eating religiously not only wouldn't last if the lights went out, but it was also what was making me others in my family chained to meds. But once we started finding easy-to-grow and cheap but healthy alternatives for our protein, complex-carbs, vitamins and minerals, now we don't even need to take multivitamins anymore (another worry of mine if the lights went out was what to do when our supplements ran out). So now we're not only healthier than we've been in our whole lives, but we also have excess of all the vitamins, minerals and other nutrients we need in our blood (we're also no longer stopped up any more, though that might be TMI). I didn't realize we had everything already given to us on God's green earth to satisfy our needs, but now I believe it. The only time I might need to supplement with hunting or fishing is if I planned poorly for the winter and didn't have enough to make it through, though I now see meat as a poor substitute for tasty high-protein, high-fiber legumes, grains, fruits and vegetables, which have way more variety if nutrients in them (complete with all the natural oils salts, iodine, and sugars, which would be unavailable if the lights went out). And now--and this is a huge jump since I have slaughtered so many animals in my day--but my perspective has changed and I would just rather not have a peice of dead animal on my plate or in my food, if I can help it. Things sure have changed for me in the past two years.

I'm glad that works for you, and as someone who is largely carnivore, I appreciate our complimentary impact on supply and demand forces.