Glock .... Still the best

[shooter@5(4)life]

..........

 

[kingnereli]

Glad I don't have to worry about that. In over 30 years of handling and shooting firearms of all types, I've never had an ND. Somehow, it just doesn't seem that difficult to me to:

1. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
2. Keep the trigger guard clear when reholstering.
3. Treat every gun as if it was loaded.

Yes, and as long as you never make a mistake the rest of your life you will be fine. I'll say again, it isn't just the inexperienced that have ND's. I recently read an article about a veteran U.S. Marshall who shot himself in the hand with his glock. If you do make a mistake and have a ND there is a really good chance it could have been prevented by simply having some safties in place.

People who leave guns out where children can get them cannot be considered safe. God forbid anyone on this board is this complacent and negligent. People who leave guns where small children can access them should be thrown in jail for neglect. A gun is NEVER safe, no matter how many switches and levers you put on it.

I wonder if you really think I was saying it was ok to let small children get ahold of guns if they have safeties or you just won't respond to what I said because you can't. This was an illustration of how a safety could prevent disaster. My daughter could not click the thumb safety off, depress the grip safety and the trigger at the same time. It doesn't take long for a kid to learn what a trigger does. As soon as they play with a nerf gun or squirt gun they know where the trigger is and what it does. If that is all there is on a real gun and a kid gets ahold of it they know all they need to know to kill themself or someone else. It is despicable when kids get ahold of guns but the fact is that they do. Why would you advise against making a gun as safe as possible when you don't give up anything to do so.

The complacency and false sense of security brought on by a manual safety can lead to disaster as surely as sloppy gun handling with any firearm, regardless of design.

Extreme hubris is more dangerous then manual safeties. Over confidence in ones abilities has caused more NDs then manual safeties. I'm sure everyone who has shot themselves in the leg with a glock hadn't had a ND in X number of years as well. They also probably thought the gun safety rules were a piece of cake. They human element is always the variable. If anything is likely to fail it is us not manual safeties. So, manual safeties will be more reliable then me so trusting them is anything but "a false sense of security."

Guess they'll have to recall all 8,000,000 + Glocks in service, a huge portion
that are carried by people who actually use their guns for a living.

Now you are on to something!

I'll continue to use and rely on my "flawed" pistol every day, and pray that those that are too incompetent to observe simple firearm safety rules continue to carry with empty chambers and multiple safety switches. There have been plenty of NDs with 1911's (either it won't fire, or it's got a hair SA trigger) and even revolvers. I suppose the comfortable thing to do is to blame the pistol. But as long as the discharge is not caused by mechanical failure, it is ALWAYS the fault of someone who was negligent.

Good for you. It is obvious that you either didn't pay attention to my post or you can't respond adequately to my points. I did not say the the presence of safeties was reason to be neglectful. I also didn't say there has never been a ND with a 1911 or revolver. I also did not say the fault lay solely with the gun. I was saying that it is negligent to carry a gun with no safeties. I was saying that the glock design is less safe then other comparable guns on the market. I was saying glock has more design flaws then just the lack of safeties.

As I'm not a liberal, and not given to blaming inanimate objects for the actions of a human, I'll continue to take personal resposibility for my own safety instead of relying on a switch or lever to save me from myself.

Again you aren't responding to what I was saying. Glocks are a a contributing factor to the NDs not the cause. I said most of these NDs could have been prevented by the presence of a "switch or lever." You really can't argue with that which I am sure is why you didn't. You just diverted the issue. I was talking about gun design and in no way suggested That I or anyone else could relax on the safety rules because of safetis.

The Glock will not fire if you do not pull the trigger. Period. That may not be an "idiot-proof" design....but thankfully, I'm not an idiot.

OH, well, I wish I would have known that before. Again, you are way off topic, but you help prove my point. If you have a round in the chamber and pull the trigger when the gun is pointed at your hand while field stripping the gun will fire. (Remember the U. S. Martial?) If you are re-holstering your glock and snag the trigger on anything the gun will fire. Plus all the other scenarios where people have had NDs. You can choose to automatically brand these people as idiots and maybe you would be right. What is more likely is that they were safety minded gun owners like you and I and just really screwed up. Any laps in judgement, and lack of concentration, any moment of lethargy is all it takes. A gun with no safeties doesn't help.

 

[HICKMAN]

If you have a round in the chamber and pull the trigger when the gun is pointed at your hand while field stripping the gun will fire. (Remember the U. S. Martial?) If you are re-holstering your glock and snag the trigger on anything the gun will fire.

Does that not also apply to every revolver, Sigma, M&P, Kel-tec, Kahr, LCP?....etc...

Seriously, if YOU need a gun with a manual safety, then please buy one.

I mean if someone really needs to have a manual safety on a Glock it IS available.

Sidelock Glock Safety trigger | The Firearm Blog

but still pointless IMHO...

 

[kingnereli]

Does that not also apply to every revolver, Sigma, M&P, Kel-tec, Kahr, LCP?....etc...

Sure, but we were talking about Glocks.

I mean if someone really needs to have a manual safety on a Glock it IS available.

Sidelock Glock Safety trigger | The Firearm Blog

but still pointless IMHO...

That would work if that was my only complaint. I have given thought to buying a glock and fixing all the problems with it. There is an aftermarket fix for just about everything. Curious why when glocks are perfect. You just can't fix the bad ergonomics, the creep in the trigger or the ugly but there are replacements for the rest. I haven't done it yet and may not because I realize the project would just turn into stone soup.

 

[Indy317]

Yes, and as long as you never make a mistake the rest of your life you will be fine. I'll say again, it isn't just the inexperienced that have ND's. I recently read an article about a veteran U.S. Marshall who shot himself in the hand with his glock. If you do make a mistake and have a ND there is a really good chance it could have been prevented by simply having some safties in place.

The problem with "safeties" is that some of them are not automatic. My HK USP had a safety, but it was off all the time. Just because there is a safety lever doesn't mean jack. If it is not pushed up or down, then the gun is usually exactly like a Glock. You pull the trigger, gun goes bang. As far as NDs go, I think there is just more to it than "it obviously was a Glock" type thinking. For one, if there is an ND, reguardless of the gun, the person who pulled the trigger was at fault. The funny thing is, all the NDs that I know of, they all had one thing in common: The shooter _wanted_ to pull the trigger. No, they didn't want to shoot the gun, they _believed_ it was empty. For whatever reason, they left a round in the chamber. From all the NDs I have heard, I believe that a good % of them are caused by operator error. Manual safeties would have _no_ effect on these NDs because the person's intention was to dry fire the gun. This means the gun would have had to function, meaning the shooter would have turned the safety off.

Now you recall the DEA guy with the Glock. There is absolutely no proof that he would not have had a ND with any other gun. He was "in uniform" and basically "on the clock," so he likely would have not turned on any switch safety. He was in the process of holstering the gun, gripping it the same way one would fire it, so any grip safety would have been engaged.

Once again, it is 100% operator error. I would be willing to be most NDs have nothing to do with the amount of safeties, but rather the shooter purposely pulling the trigger without clearing the gun.

 

[Glock Lover]

The problem with "safeties" is that some of them are not automatic. My HK USP had a safety, but it was off all the time. Just because there is a safety lever doesn't mean jack. If it is not pushed up or down, then the gun is usually exactly like a Glock. You pull the trigger, gun goes bang. As far as NDs go, I think there is just more to it than "it obviously was a Glock" type thinking. For one, if there is an ND, reguardless of the gun, the person who pulled the trigger was at fault. The funny thing is, all the NDs that I know of, they all had one thing in common: The shooter _wanted_ to pull the trigger. No, they didn't want to shoot the gun, they _believed_ it was empty. For whatever reason, they left a round in the chamber. From all the NDs I have heard, I believe that a good % of them are caused by operator error. Manual safeties would have _no_ effect on these NDs because the person's intention was to dry fire the gun. This means the gun would have had to function, meaning the shooter would have turned the safety off.

Now you recall the DEA guy with the Glock. There is absolutely no proof that he would not have had a ND with any other gun. He was "in uniform" and basically "on the clock," so he likely would have not turned on any switch safety. He was in the process of holstering the gun, gripping it the same way one would fire it, so any grip safety would have been engaged.

Once again, it is 100% operator error. I would be willing to be most NDs have nothing to do with the amount of safeties, but rather the shooter purposely pulling the trigger without clearing the gun.

Excellent points!

 

[HICKMAN]

Sure, but we were talking about Glocks.




That would work if that was my only complaint. I have given thought to buying a glock and fixing all the problems with it. There is an aftermarket fix for just about everything. Curious why when glocks are perfect. You just can't fix the bad ergonomics, the creep in the trigger or the ugly but there are replacements for the rest. I haven't done it yet and may not because I realize the project would just turn into stone soup.

I guess in that case, nobody should buy an AR, AK or shotgun....

as far as the aftermarket fixes, what's the big deal? You get a good starter gun for a cheap prices with a Glock. If I wanted to spend a lot of money up front, I could get a Sig or HK or even an XDm (even if it only comes in one size).

With a Glock, I can buy whatever size I want for pretty cheap and build it for what I'm going to use it for. My G19c that I use for carry is pretty simple, dropped in a 3.5 trigger bar and replace the grooved trigger with a flat faced one and maybe throw on some night sights. If I want to shoot lead, I can throw in a barrel from Storm Lake or KKM... maybe then reaching what I would have spend on a XDm but still cheaper than a Sig or HK.

With my G34 that I use for USPSA/FNS, I can shoot the gun as it is out of the box (same price as XDm) and have unlimited options to make it even better. Funny how the top pro's manage to use this "ergonomic nightmare" and still manage to win again and again.

Granted, I am not one of these guys, but some of the better shooters around seem to do awfully well with their Glocks at USPSA and Steel matches around here.

So shoot what you like, I don't hate on your guns, don't see why it always comes back to you guys hating on Glocks for no real reason.

 

[JosephR]

I'm so sick of "canned" responses from the Glock detractors.

Yeah, Glocks are the ugly bricks of the pistol world. Try holding a friggin' HiPoint.

XDs are soo much more comfortable. It's quite the opposite for me. XDs are God awful in the ergonomic's department. Glocks are way easier to conceal without the 2" of extra butt.

Glocks need "fixing". Yeah right, they just have a lot of accessories or replacement parts. They don't NEED to be fixed. I wouldn't complain that a gun has plenty of aftermarket parts to chose from. Noone cares enough about XDs to make diddly for them in the aftermarket world. What a great gun. They can ALWAYS use improvement- it's not because they don't need it.

Most of the same statements are spewed over and over about Glocks. They are all the same rhetoric regurgitated by the same people over and over again. For the most part, XDs have a following because people just don't want a Glock.

Go against the grain boys. You sure are cool for doing it.

 

[U.S. Patriot]

For the most part, XDs have a following because people just don't want a Glock.

Lol where did you hear that CNN? It comes down to what fits you. Not I do not want a Glock, so I'll buy a Springfield. You guys are too funny.

 

[kingnereli]

I guess in that case, nobody should buy an AR, AK or shotgun....

as far as the aftermarket fixes, what's the big deal? You get a good starter gun for a cheap prices with a Glock. If I wanted to spend a lot of money up front, I could get a Sig or HK or even an XDm (even if it only comes in one size).

With a Glock, I can buy whatever size I want for pretty cheap and build it for what I'm going to use it for. My G19c that I use for carry is pretty simple, dropped in a 3.5 trigger bar and replace the grooved trigger with a flat faced one and maybe throw on some night sights. If I want to shoot lead, I can throw in a barrel from Storm Lake or KKM... maybe then reaching what I would have spend on a XDm but still cheaper than a Sig or HK.

With my G34 that I use for USPSA/FNS, I can shoot the gun as it is out of the box (same price as XDm) and have unlimited options to make it even better. Funny how the top pro's manage to use this "ergonomic nightmare" and still manage to win again and again.

Granted, I am not one of these guys, but some of the better shooters around seem to do awfully well with their Glocks at USPSA and Steel matches around here.

So shoot what you like, I don't hate on your guns, don't see why it always comes back to you guys hating on Glocks for no real reason.

That is the stone soup I was talking about. I could buy a glock and spend money to make it almost as good as other guns or I could just spend the money on a good gun.

 

[kingnereli]

I'm so sick of "canned" responses from the Glock detractors.

Yeah, Glocks are the ugly bricks of the pistol world. Try holding a friggin' HiPoint.

XDs are soo much more comfortable. It's quite the opposite for me. XDs are God awful in the ergonomic's department. Glocks are way easier to conceal without the 2" of extra butt.

Glocks need "fixing". Yeah right, they just have a lot of accessories or replacement parts. They don't NEED to be fixed. I wouldn't complain that a gun has plenty of aftermarket parts to chose from. Noone cares enough about XDs to make diddly for them in the aftermarket world. What a great gun. They can ALWAYS use improvement- it's not because they don't need it.

Most of the same statements are spewed over and over about Glocks. They are all the same rhetoric regurgitated by the same people over and over again. For the most part, XDs have a following because people just don't want a Glock.

Go against the grain boys. You sure are cool for doing it.

What do you expect? We argue against the design problems. The problems stay the same so the statements stay the same. At least they are accurate and not as ridiculous as saying people buy other guns just because they don't like glock. It isn't going against the grain. It is trying not to get the splinters.

 

[Haans]

I'm so sick of "canned" responses from the Glock detractors.

Yeah, Glocks are the ugly bricks of the pistol world. Try holding a friggin' HiPoint.

XDs are soo much more comfortable. It's quite the opposite for me. XDs are God awful in the ergonomic's department. Glocks are way easier to conceal without the 2" of extra butt.

Glocks need "fixing". Yeah right, they just have a lot of accessories or replacement parts. They don't NEED to be fixed. I wouldn't complain that a gun has plenty of aftermarket parts to chose from. Noone cares enough about XDs to make diddly for them in the aftermarket world. What a great gun. They can ALWAYS use improvement- it's not because they don't need it.

Most of the same statements are spewed over and over about Glocks. They are all the same rhetoric regurgitated by the same people over and over again. For the most part, XDs have a following because people just don't want a Glock.

Go against the grain boys. You sure are cool for doing it.

Personally, I prefer my Walther P99AS (the gun that started the whole ergonomic grip thing). I wouldn't mind having an XD, but it's just not that big of a deal. As for Glocks, they don't fit my hand well, and I'm a bit turned off by the fanatical praise of a weapon that really isn't all that much better than a Sig, an H&K, a Beretta or a Walther. The main reason Glocks have such a corner on the Law Enforcement market are the service contracts they offer to agencies. It's marketing, not superior quality.

 

[JosephR]

"It's marketing, not superior quality"

Thanks for another canned response.

How do you define "quality"? Quality like a fine burlwood dash in a luxury sedan or quality as in a John Deere tractor that plows it's fields day in and day out and never breaks down?

I think Glocks have the right type of "quality".

What parts have you seen break on a Glock?

 

[henktermaat]

I have only shot one Glock, and I liked it; but the attitude of Glock owners is definitely a measurable turn-off.

 

[kingnereli]

"It's marketing, not superiority"

It may be "canned' but it is still correct and a very good counter to the "glocks are the best because lots of police use them" type canned glocker arguments.

 

[kingnereli]

I have only shot one Glock, and I liked it; but the attitude of Glock owners is definitely a measurable turn-off.

Haha, it's a good thing some the these guys aren't doing glocks marketing.

 

[JByer323]

Every time one of these "discussions" starts, God kills a kitten.

 

[redneckmedic]

Every time one of these "discussions" starts, God kills a kitten.

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Search: Threads Started By: redneckmedic

 

[kingnereli]

Every time one of these "discussions" starts, God kills a kitten.

Wow, that sucks. There are three of these going on right now.

 

[JByer323]

Bit early in the day to start stirring the pot, ain't it, medic?