Girl and her little brother attacked in Indy. (Brookside park)

[Doug]

Fathers have been the traditional providers for families. The last 3 or 4 generations have been told that fathers aren't necessary. The family can be provided for by the Great Daddy, .gov and that means everything from food to housing to medical care...everything.

Great Daddy.gov has destroyed the family and as for the younguns, that's all they know. It's a shame, really. So much potential but not much incentive, if any. Their aren't enough good role models.

I recommend reading Uncle Sam's Plantation by Star Parker.
It's the story of a woman who got tired of living on the plantation and found her way out.

 

[HoughMade]

I hold your opinions in high regard, even though we have never met. However, attributing the level of violence a person demonstrates to the lack of a father in the home is nothing but an excuse, in my humble opinion. I am certainly not one who would write the girl off, but approaching her from a level of sorrow and empathy is the wrong direction. She needs to be treated like a criminal in order for her to see the error of her ways. As long as she can point back to poverty, one-parent home, lack of education, etc., as the reason for her self-inflicted plight, she will always believe society owes her another chance, because it is not her fault.

I think I have confused my points by mixing 2 things. As a matter of the justice system as to this young person, I believe she should be punished and that the punishment should be severe. I can see how it may appear that I am suggesting an excuse, and that was not my intention. My intention was not excuse, but reason, which is a different analysis, a prospective analysis.

What I did not explicitly explain is that I was using this situation as an example. I would like to see what we can do to lessen the chances of kids going down a bad path to where they commit these acts. In this case (in every case), I do not believe that one factor, the lack of a present father, is the causative mechanism, but I think it is a factor. It is a factor I am prone to notice andpoint out because fatherhood is so important to me.

In no way did I mean to suggest that she should not be severely punished, but I would like to see some people try to get through to her during her punishment. I just wanted to point out that there is a problem and ONE factor is the intact family, a factor too important to ignore.

In my medical/bioethics class last night, my teaching partner went on a bit of a rant about "baby boxes", bemoaning that they are necessary and asked if there was an answer to the problem. In front of the class, I posited that there is an answer, but it's one that people don't want to hear because it seems "judgmental". We have rejected "traditional" morality, but the truth of the matter is- traditional morality as it regards having kids after marriage and staying together is VERY pragmatic. It simply works more reliably and more often than other options when the problem to be addressed is raising a respectful and successful next generation.

 

[SMiller]

Well she just got charged.

Bet she wishes that video never went viral...

I hope the prosecutor makes a example of her.

 

[Que]

I think I have confused my points by mixing 2 things. As a matter of the justice system as to this young person, I believe she should be punished and that the punishment should be severe. I can see how it may appear that I am suggesting an excuse, and that was not my intention. My intention was not excuse, but reason, which is a different analysis, a prospective analysis.

What I did not explicitly explain is that I was using this situation as an example. I would like to see what we can do to lessen the chances of kids going down a bad path to where they commit these acts. In this case (in every case), I do not believe that one factor, the lack of a present father, is the causative mechanism, but I think it is a factor. It is a factor I am prone to notice andpoint out because fatherhood is so important to me.

In no way did I mean to suggest that she should not be severely punished, but I would like to see some people try to get through to her during her punishment. I just wanted to point out that there is a problem and ONE factor is the intact family, a factor too important to ignore.

In my medical/bioethics class last night, my teaching partner went on a bit of a rant about "baby boxes", bemoaning that they are necessary and asked if there was an answer to the problem. In front of the class, I posited that there is an answer, but it's one that people don't want to hear because it seems "judgmental". We have rejected "traditional" morality, but the truth of the matter is- traditional morality as it regards having kids after marriage and staying together is VERY pragmatic. It simply works more reliably and more often than other options when the problem to be addressed is raising a respectful and successful next generation.

We are on the same page.

 

[MrsGungho]

Well she just got charged.

Bet she wishes she that video never went viral...

I hope the prosecutor makes a example of her.

As much as this needs done, I am not rejoicing. For whatever reason, a young girl is off course in the wrong direction, horribly.
I hope she can make a change, but sadly, I don't think she will.

 

[mom45]

Girl, 14, faces juvenile charges in Indianapolis park attack

 

[printcraft]

Girl, 14, faces juvenile charges in Indianapolis park attack

The charges of criminal confinement and battery resulting in moderate bodily injury would be felonies if the girl were prosecuted as an adult. A third charge of battery resulting in bodily injury would be a misdemeanor in adult court.

Would and If........... she walks free again......... yeah justice!

 

[mom45]

Would and If........... she walks free again......... yeah justice!

Yep...she is old enough to know better.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

To be clear, I did not bring it up for "fun", I was referring to facebook arguments as "fun". I do not find the lack of a father in the home or the loss of an intact family (or the failure to create one to begin with) as remotely amusing, though I will admit that there are times when I will try to deal with tragedy (and this is a profound tragedy) with some measure of humor.

Unfortunately, absent fathers are a problem as to many issues and as a person who hold his status as "Dad" in higher regard than anything in his life other than "husband" and "forgiven follower", I will point it out wherever I see it as a problem. Everything from poverty, to lack of education, to violence, to disfunctional relationships and eventually divorce or being absent from your own kid's lives goes back to the lack of an intact family. There are numerous other factor, but this is a prominent one.

Great people come out of 1 parent households, no doubt. I know them. We all do. Let's take for granted that 90+% of kids who grow up in single parent households turn out great. I don't know what the statistics are, but I'll accept that. That does not change the fact that when we look at the population where kids go off the rails or have some sort of significant trauma in their lives, OVERWHELMINGLY, there is NOT an intact, nuclear family. That is not a coincidence. Further, I have seen nothing to suggest that the lack of an intact family is any less traumatic on kids of one race versus another.

This girl is a criminal who needs to be dealt with, but I hate to see us writing off a teenager as unsalvageable (I won't!) and I hate to see us not trying to chip away at the edges of what leads to anti-social and self-destructive behavior. ONE of the factors is the lack of an intact family and that factor is my hobby horse because I believe it leads to so many other problems.

"Intact family" is the operative term. I have also read many studies suggesting that the lack of a father in the home can lead to less than optimal consequences, but the same can be said for the lack of a mother. We're dealing with that in our own grandkids' lives. There is a lot of hurt, anger and confusion in these kids. With that said, however, "staying together for the sake of the children" isn't always the answer either. As Dr. Phil often says (and yes I watch Dr. Phil - try and take my man card and I'll kill ya! ), it's better to be from a broken home than to be in one.

 

[churchmouse]

"Intact family" is the operative term. I have also read many studies suggesting that the lack of a father in the home can lead to less than optimal consequences, but the same can be said for the lack of a mother. We're dealing with that in our own grandkids' lives. There is a lot of hurt, anger and confusion in these kids. With that said, however, "staying together for the sake of the children" isn't always the answer either. As Dr. Phil often says (and yes I watch Dr. Phil - try and take my man card and I'll kill ya! ), it's better to be from a broken home than to be in one.

I tried my best to put up with my 1st "X" for the kids. It was not a good thing all around. Once that relationship ended she did everything she could to use the kids as levers to control/irritate/manipulate my life.
Ended up being worse for them in the long run as I was powerless to do anything. Had I known things may have been different but hard to say now.
Yes, it hurt the kids. The youngest was lost to me and still is. He did some unsavory things acting out and "Showing" me he was doing what he wished.
I see so many youths in the same predicament. Once they are in the system it gets no better because the system is not set up to do any repairs needed to these kids mental state.

What is the answer???

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I tried my best to put up with my 1st "X" for the kids. It was not a good thing all around. Once that relationship ended she did everything she could to use the kids as levers to control/irritate/manipulate my life.
Ended up being worse for them in the long run as I was powerless to do anything. Had I known things may have been different but hard to say now.
Yes, it hurt the kids. The youngest was lost to me and still is. He did some unsavory things acting out and "Showing" me he was doing what he wished.
I see so many youths in the same predicament. Once they are in the system it gets no better because the system is not set up to do any repairs needed to these kids mental state.

What is the answer???

Using the kids as pawns in some kind of power play between the parents is always always wrong. The ones to suffer the most are the children. No matter how bad things are between the exes, I believe they have to keep those differences between themselves and always keep the best interests of the children at the forefront. I know that's easier said than done, but it doesn't make it any less crucial.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I hope the family gets her the help she needs: Brutal videotaped beating at Indianapolis park spurs conversation about mental health services | Fox 59

So much more should be done as to public mental health.

 

[ViperJock]

I hope the family gets her the help she needs: Brutal videotaped beating at Indianapolis park spurs conversation about mental health services | Fox 59

So much more should be done as to public mental health.

Such as? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it...until my taxes are doubled to pay for it.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Such as? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it...until my taxes are doubled to pay for it.

Here's an analogy... If you fix your car's brakes as soon as you hear a little squeak, it's a lot cheaper than waiting until they're growling and into the rotors.

 

[ViperJock]

Here's an analogy... If you fix your car's brakes as soon as you hear a little squeak, it's a lot cheaper than waiting until they're growling and into the rotors.

Very true. Here is another analogy: what's your practical solution and how much of your own money are you willing to spend on it? Confession: that wasn't really an analogy.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

Very true. Here is another analogy: what's your practical solution and how much of your own money are you willing to spend on it? Confession: that wasn't really an analogy.

Revise current laws to make it easier for family members to petition the courts to institutionalize children and adults that are exhibiting harmful behavior. Stop wasting money on prosecuting people for possession of a plant (yeah I said it). Legalize and tax said plant. The cost savings from eliminating the prosecution/incarceration, along with the tax revenue could be used to fund or subsidize mental health care. Please note I am not advocating doing away with all drug laws (Kirk), but I do think that we waste a lot of time, energy and money on that one in particular.

 

[HoughMade]

Such as? Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it...until my taxes are doubled to pay for it.

Pay me now (mental health) or pay me later (welfare and prison).

 

[Thor]

Re-open Muscatatuck?

I was there right after it was given over to the National Guard...the place wrote its own horror movie scripts. It's a difficult question but we seem to be a society that shies from difficult solutions.

Clearly, though, letting them walk among us is not a good solution.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Pay me now (mental health) or pay me later (welfare and prison).

Hard to argue with that.

 

[Libertarian01]

Very true. Here is another analogy: what's your practical solution and how much of your own money are you willing to spend on it? Confession: that wasn't really an analogy.

To ViperJock,

I agree with your desire to keep costs down, but the real debate comes in with, "Are you willing to double your taxes for mental health OR triple your taxes for incarceration that does no good?"

Many people only see the side of "I don't want to pay for someone else's problem" when the reality is we are ALL going to pay whether we want to or not. We are going to pay for the criminal justice side on many different levels or we are going to try to truly solve the problem with some sort of care.

Personally, I'd rather do neither and have everyone live and let live in peace, but I know what I want is pie in the sky.

Of course, there are certain moral and/or philosophical lines in the sand that are deserving of punishment without care no matter what! There must be lines we all understand that no matter what the excuse punishment will follow. Now, we may and possibly should add treatment to that punishment in some cases, but punishment must exist and be enforced as a negative reinforcement to inappropriate/illegal behavior.

We just need to remember we are paying for the insurance on the victim, law enforcement on investigation and enforcement, judicial system on processing the instigator, penal system on incarceration.

Regards,

Doug